Can it be solved?

9개월 전

"I just want everybody to get along"

...these are the words, a friend and colleague wrote me, during the recent disputes of the art community with the account @jaguar.force.

I am still contacted by people, asking me to join their campaigns. My answer is, that I said publicly, what I had to say, and that I have no interest or intention, to pour any more oil into the fire. But I still find myself in the middle of an argument, that I never wanted to have.

I agree very much with master @shibasaki, when he said: "This fighting must stop."

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note to Curators: picture has been posted before, no reward for this expected


When I first became aware of what was going on in the art community, just a little while ago, I naturally sided with my fellow artists. I was actually quite outraged about @jaguar.force. Even made that joke on @thermoplastic's post he had made about plagiarism.

A lot has happened since then, and both sides brought in a lot of arguments. But there was also a lot of plain fighting and insults. I had actually lost all joy of being on steem or any of its relatives like @nTopaz. If it hadn't been for a handful really nice people, I might just have abandoned my account alltogther. I'm a Libra, I need harmony ;-)

Jaguar.force contacted me with something I had said to them in a comment. They took it as an insult. It was a misunderstanding. We started to have a more reasonable conversation about our views and convictions. I don't know, if I was shocked or pleased, that (in my humble opinion) jaguar.force is not just some stupid troll as many of us chose to believe.

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I had said before in my comments, that I see good intentions, and found that confirmed. I met someone intelligent and well educated... maybe a bit overly passionate at times, but that's what young activists normally are.

Of course there is major disagreement on several issues. But they actually listened to me, when they held a case of potential plagiarism under my nose, and I said, likeness is strictly coincidental. Some poor, potentially innocent soul could be spared false accusation!

Jaguar.force presented new cases in the meantime, where accidental likeness would be hard to believe. I saw the posts and I think, unfortunately, they speak for themselves.

BTW, @jaguar.force offered me a position as art advisor, which I respectfully declined. If a case is clear, my judgment is not needed. And if it is not, I will gladly give a second opinion. As I would want to make sure, nobody gets falsely accused.


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It looks, like the whole issue of, let me call it "art abuse", is often handled relatively relaxed. Professional artist came to accept, that their art is ripped off in all different ways, be it on the web or in real life. I have reached a point, where I will make a high resolution image available, whenever possible. For the viewing pleasure of my audience. Not worrying about someone downloading or even selling it (it has happened).

Those trying to learn and refine their skill have always learned by copying the masters. Per se, there is nothing wrong with that, but we now were all educated, that "attribution is key".


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When I was a submariner in the German navy, our KALEU (captain) always said: "Now, everyone check themselves and see, where you have any shortcomings and how you can improve!" ....it became a sort of a mantra for me, and I still follow it today. I am old enough to know, that nobody is perfect. I certainly am far from it. So, I thought, maybe, I should go and check my own blog to see, if it is all up to standard.

I found a painting, where the stock photo used was not properly attributed. To correct the mistake, I made the necessary attribution, and added the link to the stock account. I make no secret about it, and anyone who wants to do so, can check on steemd anyways.

The debates about copyright and plagiarism and all, are legal issues. There was also talk about deception, which is a more ethical issue in my view. The subject came up, that some artists might be trying to deceive their fans and curators.

Some people argue, that using a photo for reference could be seen as such. I have to say, that I actually find it much harder to achieve a high level of accuracy with a photo if done right. Of course, one can argue the artistic achievement there, but for me it was a skill, I was thriving to achieve for many years.

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I invite anybody who thinks it is easy to make a quality rendition with a fine undertone of your own style, to try it. And seamlessly incorporate it in the context of your artworks idea, concept and composition. You will see, that there is a reason, why very reputable Institutions like the Angel Academy of Art have offered workshops on the subject.

The core value of a piece of art is determined by the idea. It is not even the effort involved (although for me it is to a certain degree). So, although many professionals don't make a big fuzz about getting copied, it is the stealing of an idea, that is frowned upon. And even there is lot of gray zone, as one can see in the recent argument.


So, why am I writing all that? To make a clear and public statement of my position. I don't want to see steem to be turned into some kind of gulag, where every move is under surveillance and scrutinized.

On the other hand, I understand, that there has to be some kind of order. I'm German after all ;-) When I get caught with my fingers in the cookie jar, I get slapped. But although someone who steals an apple in a supermarket breaks the law, it does not make him a potential rapist or mass murderer!

So, if there is a consensus, that certain areas of our wonderful platform are starting to look like this...

Jakarta slumlife66

idea @iamstan

...ok fine, lets have it cleaned up, but keep an eye on all sides, so we don't end up here:

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source

and instead have it more like this:

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source


Just a suggestion :-)

maPla_sunshine-300x300.png


We are only human.

Why not be just that and get along?



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Edit:

You might want to take a look at this latest post by jaguar.force.
I find it at least.... interesting!


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Speaking about copyright issues, I don't want to pretend I wrote the book, but I have amassed a ton of information and done a lot of research on the subject.

it is the stealing of an idea, that is frowned upon.
Yes, frowned upon, but

ideas cannot be copyrighted

My main objection to Jaguar was that she went after people in a vindictive and insulting way with a lack of respect, hounding certain artists like a stalker turning in posts from many months ago. Jaguar itself is violating copyrights with every post by posting images that are taken from famous wildlife photographers - if I could find the original source, then she could also, since she is accusing artists of exactly what she is doing.
There is no reconciliation.
She is a troll - and because of her, I lost all respect for steemcleaners.

About sources:
crediting the source is often not good enough if you want to stay legal. Even though I publish my work on Flickr as CC, there are also restrictions: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/

  • read what it means: for example you cannot take any of my work and alter it in any way, nor for commercial purposes, so posting for possible gain (upvotes) is a no no. Having said that, and what I said above: "Ideas cannot be copyrighted", feel free to take my idea and see what you can make of it - like your idea of a Queen of Hearts (Alice in Wonderland), for example.
...ok fine, lets have it cleaned up, but keep an eye on all sides, so we don't end up here: (in the desert)

But some of the problems that arise are with so called "curators": in order to rise in the ranks of curator, you have to pick more than the next guy, so the incentive is to flood Curie on Discord with as much stuff as possible for your own reputation to rise. Never mind that such a "curator" has no discernment, what counts is the volume. A good curator would pick good art and do the proper research before adding a post for consideration. What gets upvoted here on Steemit is ridiculous at best. There will always be bad art, there will always be fraud, rip-offs and copycats. But what I say is: DON'T EVEN BOTHER IGNORING THEM! (something we say here in Vienna). It does not need a Jaguar in the china shop, self-appointed police (tried to get away from those types on Facebook where they sniff out nipples and such).
The system itself weeds out the bad stuff - I mean: who would vote for crap? The cream should rise to the top.
Of course there is vote farming - and if there is a need of policing, then that is where the emphasis should be. Because it takes from the pool so those deserving get less.

Hello Reinhard. I'm glad to see you!

You did the right thing that you decided to state your position, I hope this will be a step towards ensuring that everything becomes fine on Steem. This is really quite a painful topic for conversation, but clarity needs to be brought into this conversation. I fully agree with your words, now people began to look for the flaws of other people to poke a finger at them and assert themselves (I’m not talking specifically about someone) that is the reality. As for plagiarism and the whole story with detective Jaguar, I don’t know if this is good or bad, but I don’t like the fact that it causes a lot of resonance and a lot of controversy within the Steem community. If all these investigations and accusations of artists are done to maintain order and that the artists do not deceive the audience by presenting other people's works for their own, this is good, but the coin has two sides and it may be that this is all to gain popularity and spoil the pleasant atmosphere. on Steemit. Honestly, I do not know. I had a case when I wrote my new track and sent it to listen to my friends, they said that I took this job from another musician and sent me a song that was similar to my work, and it really was very similar to each other. I went live on YouTube where I showed my workflow and thus confirmed that my work is author's.

There are only 7 music notes, and there are millions of artists, so coincidences are not excluded, and in the work with a drawing, something may be similar to another. You correctly said that novice artists learn from masters and there is nothing wrong with that, in order to understand the technique and other nuances a person needs an example.
I don’t know what to add, I want to support the wisest advice that Shibasaki said "This fighting must stop."

P.S. And your captain said very wise words too, everyone should follow what he said!


And sorry for my terrible English, I try to learn!

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Thank you for your elaborate comment... your English is more than sufficient. For many of us, it is not the native language.

Like I tried to outline, there is a lot of gray zone, and part of the problem lies in the complexity of the subject.

As a painter, I have no idea, how a musician comes up with their compositions and for me, it would be next to impossible to ignore all the melodies I already know, while I want to find a new one.

First thing for me would again be what our captain said. You are the first one, who knows what you are doing.

Somehow I missed this shi*tstorm and am glad of it. These sort of things are such a waste of time and energy, which could be used far more productively producing artwork. But we went through all of this a few years ago didn't we. I even forget on what forum it happened.

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Yes Leo, I actually envied you a bit for staying out or missing it. Ironically, I found enough good on both sides and still think, one could actually cooperate, if there was just enough will to do so...

But, like my good old friend Bill Ashby, the creator of the Jack Daniels man used to say: "this too will pass"

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I was busy with paint. =D

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good choice, as Reinhard says. As long as you cite your sources, so the self-appointed police don't leave a insulting comment on your art post.

As a rule I stay out of fights my friend and have become known as a great peacemaker. Life is full of twists and curls and it all depends on how we dance through them. You have written a nice and honest post here and let's hope that people will take it to heart and peace will be restored! Blessings!

Wow I been away that long :) I missed this situation, now I have to pick information and see what is this all about. But, despite my lack of information, one thing is sure, you are great artist, and that's why you are great human at first place. How I know that? I red your post very carefully and thank you for sharing thoughts and being so honest. Rare treasure now days @reinhard-schmid.

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Hahaha, thank you, but please don't praise me too much. I have my issues with myself, believe me! What I say and do, is simply based on life experience.

I was a real hothead when I was young. On the sub, our radio operator once said to me: "You always freak out right away".... immediately I screamed at him: "I NEVER FREAK OUT RIGHT AWAY!!!"

He just looked at me with a look of "point made"

Sometimes there is just a big difference, between how we are seen by ourselves and by others.

So, we live, we learn :-)

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My respond to you was made upon exact impression of that life experience I felt in your post, and that's what i loved the most. That understanding of yourself ''then'' and ''now''.
And that's what makes you great to me :)
It's hard school of accepting ourselves.
Sometimes, from this point of view, I would like to come to myself 20 years ago, and to say, it's ok, and it's ok to be like that, it's no shame :)
Yes, we learn, if we want to :)

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That is the KEY though @reinhard-schmid "LEARN" mistakes aren't mistakes if they are lessons for better living and personhood :)

As another artist who joined steem around the same time as you I agree with all you said especially the part about stealing of ideas. I am happy to see people learning the craft of art making by copying but I do like to see attribution given where due.
Copying is an important skill to have ( and one which I struggle with) so I commend those we are good at it and those that are learning.
Ideas are individual and to claim them as your own when they are not, will not push you to develop your own.

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Hehe.. yes, we are steem start buddies so to speak! :-) Agree completely with what you are saying.

You make some great points, Personally I have not stayed up to date with the infighting, seems like a waste of time, maybe that is the libra speaking. The community generally seems to curate itself successfully. The best most of us can probably do is try to improve ourselves, our practice and to be transparent. Great artworks.

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As a rule, I think you are right. Unfortunately there are always some, who take advantage of a good system.

Love your beautiful spirit and level-headedness, @reinhard-schmid :)

I am in support of this post 100% !

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Thank you for your kind words :-)