[Crowdsourced solutions] The problem with Tags...

3년 전

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Hey everyone,

I'm testing something here...can I crowdsource people's ideas and brains to find innovative solutions to problems? With the price of SBD and Steem right now...an upvote at 100% from me is almost worth $1000 US. Seems like a good enough incentive to get people's thinking right?

This seems to be as close as it get to being able to create customize bounties using my vote. You are welcome to participate and pitch in your ideas. If I find one particularly insightful, I might very well give a generous upvote!

The Problem

Right now I'm getting frustrated visiting the #photography tag. I'm working with friends to remedy the situation but I would like to crowdsource your brain for solutions.

Here how it plays out:

#travel and #life are very popular...but they are often attached to #photography. Which diminished the quality of that tag because sometimes, it's just poor quality photo taken from a cheap cellphone.

Crowdsourcing

I have my ideas about how to remedy the situation but I want YOURS. Submit it in the comment box below and may the best idea win!

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How about we finally get communities implemented? That way you can create your own tag/communities that have moderators that can get rid of all the unwanted crap.

Asking someone like steemcleaners to patrol all the tags just isn't feasible, setting up communities seems like the best way to go.

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That is definitely part of the solution

Semantic tagging á la LinkedIn.

Credit to my brother @manipulable, the following is a repost:

Tags are currently a bit crap

  • Anyone can add a tag to any article without moderation or validation.
  • There is no assessment of how closely a post relates to a specific tag
  • This means that the tag search is very poor, only showing highly popular tags in the dropdown, because tags are unreliable
  • Upvotes are vague
    -- What is an upvote? Seriously… that's not curation. You don't walk into a library and see the books ordered best to worst from front to back based upon whatever people happened to read that day. Things must be organised based upon the content therein so that you can efficiently browse.

What LinkedIn does

The challenge for LinkedIn was that anyone could add any skills to their profile, meaning they were unreliable. So LinkedIn allowed other users to upvote those tags, thereby developing an intersubjective community verification system around people's skills, which was very successful.

Proposal: add +1 to tags on Steemit.com

  • Anyone can add as many tags as they like to any post, including the author
  • On reading the content of the post, other users +1 the tags
  • They will upvote the tags that they feel best reflect the content
    -- Optional: adding a tag that gets a lot of upvotes can receive a small reward
    -- Optional: upvoting existing tags that gain a lot of subsequent upvotes can receive a small reward
  • Search will then be useful, a user can search for a tag and reliably find articles related to that search
  • Search algorithms can then be designed around these new data points
  • Searches can be based upon multiple tags
  • Search results for tags can then be sorted like in the existing standard feed based upon Reddit
  • Search can be predictive
  • Search can offer you related tags to include to widen your search
  • Search can exclude specific tags

Final thought

  • The tag system should be pretty straightforward to set up
  • The search will be complex but doable, for example
    • One article might have 10 upvotes on a specific tag, but 200 upvotes overall
    • Another article may have 50 upvotes on a specific tag but 100 upvotes overall
      --How do you determine which search results to show
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  ·  3년 전

YES! I'm a huge fan of semantic tagging. How I'd like to see it work:

  • Users add as many tags as they want to their post
  • Steemit removes the 5 tag restriction
  • When you vote on a post, your vote would count for only a specific tag - but you'd vote with your Steem Power, not just a +1
  • You could specify a tag order when you search
    • Travel Blog posts with Photos is a different search from Photos about Travel

Travel Post with Photos

Another issue that must be addressed: Closely related tags. There's a steemdev, steem-dev, and dev tag. How the hell is someone supposed to pick without picking all of them? Unless new tags are moderated and combined with some human intervention, there has to be a way to suggest tags for a post- or combine related tags into a super-tag of sorts.

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This is a good solution. But don't you think it may be a bit too much asking users to upvote tags? Personally, if I come across a bad post or something that doesn't match with what they are tagged with, I don't wanna spend time downvoting tags for that post.

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Not everyone has to do it, but it could be rewarded for providing a service to the network. Would likely need a hard fork. The interface could be pretty simple, just little x's on the tags that you click if they're bad.

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I feel like there’s something here, but it seems possibly too complex. What if you just made tags the vehicle of the upvote? In other words, you wouldn’t upvote or flag a post and also a tag—you’d upvote the post by upvoting one of the attached tags. Maybe that’s what you’re suggesting, already. So you wouldn’t get to upvote/flag a bunch of different tags, but I think it would still approximate a community consensus of what the post is and where it belongs.

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The essential idea isn't that complex. From a user interface perspective, it works pretty well on LinkedIn and I think it could be replicated very similarly here. My brother is the author of the post and wouldn't be familiar with the inner workings of the Steem blockchain. I do think voting on the post should be separate from voting on tags, because the two are conceptually separate. One is to reward contributions, the other is for collectively sorting/curating content.

I don't know what the best way to do it from a technical perspective is. We could either have an SMT for tag curation or we could have part of the reward pool dedicated to it. Almost certainly it would need a hard fork IMO.

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Yeah—that makes sense; conflating specificity with quality is certainly the weakness of my suggestion. Basically, I think design is about trade-offs, and in this case I’m inclined to promote simplicity over specificity. I can totally see why you wouldn’t want that, though, especially if you have experience with the system working as intended.

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I had this idea back in July, 2016. Such transactions could be left on the block chain using a custom_json transaction. That is how following is done.

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Fantastic idea.i truly liked it. +1 to your comment from @indiantraveller.

I think this paltform should show what each tag can be used for . I feel like it’s difficult to stop people from using a tag because as I know , new people or even people that have been on this paltform try to use tags that are popular so they can get awareness . I feel like the first tag should show the importance of the topic/picture .

$1000 HOLY SHIT

What if articles that contained 0 images and were tagged photography were invisible in the photography display category?

Also, articles that contained images and were tagged photography would only contain the image with no accompanying text other than maybe the title.

This would create the effect of a photo album effect in the photography category.

It might also be interesting to do photography specific tags to further allow for categorization of pictures like:

  • photo.cats
  • photo.ocean
  • photo.travel
  • photo.boat

Additionally, the photo category could eventually expand into some sort of ipfs based storage allowing users to store their albums online and get upvotes on specific pictures.

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You make some good points here!

Also, articles that contained images and were tagged photography would only contain the image with no accompanying text other than maybe the title.

You can kind of get this already by using Steepshot. It's not exactly as you imagined it, but if you want a photo album type of interface, then this is a good start.

Sub-tags is also a great idea; and very easy to make happen. As long as the community agree to use this it could be done without having to upgrade the Steemit UI or the Steem blockchain, since these are essentially just alternative tags.

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The subtags idea is similar to my idea but not as complicated. :-)

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Yeah, that's true, but the good thing about subtags is that they can be done without any changes to anything, so just decide on some of them, use them, and they're active :)

Of course, I really do want to changes to the tag system, either from the blockchain directly or from the Steemit UI. It's not working very nicely at the moment..

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I'm not sure either case would require changes to the blockchain itself. I'm going to do a garbage post to see if machine tagging works on the blockchain or if it will break.

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It seems to break. lol. This is okay though. I could just merge the ideas. #tag--subtag---value. This could still provide something easy for a script to parse. and its instantly usable as you say.

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I love the idea of the sub tags, like photo.familypictures... and that you have an option to specify a username. for example @rival/photo.familypictures and that you get the storyboard.. Thx

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That would be great @billbutler

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Yeah i do agree with you. more appropriate tags should be created for further categorizing but also having pictorials apps on steemit will make it more attractive.

Maybe attach some megapixel of a picture check before you can post, or look to the metadata of a picture and this must be filled and not older then 1 year for example...
This requires a massive change on steemit I guess. I am not a developer.. maybe this can be build by steepshot..

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If you used a tag system based on machine tags like #photo:date=01-24-2018, #photo:megapixel=13, #photo:geolat=12.3456, #photo:geolong=-98.7654, #photo:cat=sunset, etc. his could be useful.

I believe I said this before...
... and tried to engage developers...

We need searching and sorting on steemit.

Do you remember being promised a "resteem" tab?
What happened is the guy got it all done, but found that the back end couldn't deliver. It basically spewed out 20 followed posts (resteemed or not)
So, it went back to the drawing board... and hasn't been heard from again.

Steemit needs sorting:

You should be able to show all of your favorite followees. (this should be a personal, or public list of accounts) Your favorite followees with your favorite tags. And then after you read all those, go to all your followees and see just the posts (not the resteems)

This is pretty close to the groups function we have heard rumor of.
All it takes is storing a list of accounts. The sharing of the accounts list would be the hard part, as we don't have anything in our current interface for it.

We should be able to go to someone's blog page and then sort by tags. Steemit really should put the 5 or 6 most used tags just under the menu bar.

These are all easy things, but the interface is a pain. Its hard to get it just right, with enough information and sorting, without becoming too cluttered.

Further, we should have default tags. Such as CN or tagalog
So you can drill down from there. (Important if you don't read english)

And like I said, I tried to engage the programmers, but... I think they are all on Github not here.

A New tag may not be a solution because It needs adoption and May be flooded again with bad quality.

But, here is an Idea:

Create an interface like steemfollowers.com, but to join and to be listed the app the user needs your approval, wich would happen after some manual check of the quality (or maybe a community vote).

Now you create a New tag related to the app.

The feed of the app would only show the posts by the approved participants that contains the newly created tag.

That way, you have a personalized filter, and the participants would also see through the filters and vote on the best photos.

It would be kind of a closed curation community.

Maybe hard to implement, but doable.

photography tag is totally bs now. so, better go for a unique tag which is related to your concept ;) @cryptoctopus

@resteemia
reteemed & upvoted & commented & followed

An excellent idea to improve the #photography tag and my idea is simple, that is not everyone who places the opportunity to place a high-quality photo because of the lack of expensive technology and for this I suggest adding a division to the #photography tag. For example, "favorite photo", "professional", "author's" and so on, and then let the community decide where and what photo to evaluate. Thank you @cryptoctopus

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Agree with you

@cryptoctopus,
We can use a specific tag for this purpose. Commonly we can use photography tag! But we can specify it like cryptoctopus-photography, likewise!
Today I started a new photography tag as tga-photography and untalented-photography!
So if we new to photography I think untalented-photography is a good idea! tga-photography is for me! If someone wish to use that tag, he/she must submit something related on my themes! Otherwise I will warn first, if he/she can't listen then flag war will begins :D
This is my idea! I think it might work well!

Cheers~

The only way I could imagine for this to work right now, is by creating a seperate site where a set of rules are applied before approval (if this ain't already your idea ^^). That, or wait for communities to arrive... Even if you were to change the tag, people could still upload whatever they want and the problem would eventually present itself again.

@cryptoctopus - Sir most users are using Steemit as the main app on Steem blockchain... Therefore, separate app concept will not work very well Sir... Best thing is making your own tag & monitor it closely Sir...

+W+

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Yeah this is good idea tOo

Tag use needs to be intuitive or it is useless. New people come in all the time, and one day that floodgate could open. It takes weeks to months to START to catch on to all the rules and expectations about tag use already, so a more complicated answer is not a solution...
I suggest leaving "photography" as a wide open tag, then ANYONE with a photograph can use it without irritating whales or bots. Create a "prophoto" tag, or something like that, so the onus of correct tag use us upon those who are entering contests or challenges. If they have figured out how to enter, they should have mastered appropriate tag use for their entries also.
As a newbie who got jumped on for "tag spam" (on a post that garnered less than a quarter) I am ADAMANT in my stance that intuitive tag use be allowed. Having people jump in, start to have some fun, then accuse them of spam over some obscure definition of a tag that they were unaware of is a real buzzkill, and nearly had me leave the platform completely.

I touched on this in another comment on one of your previous post, but I don't think you saw it?

I see so many people creating offshoots of steemit.com that are still connected, like dtube et al, and I was thinking maybe you could do something like steemgallery.com as an offshoot where people can specifically post quality photography, drawing, painting etc. so there is a place for quality work. They could use the tag steemgallery as an example.

Perhaps something like this would minimize the lesser quality photos, but you're still dealing with people, and some just have rose colored glasses and can't see that what they saw, didn't actually translate to the photo they took.

I don't know enough about how all this works, but maybe you do and can take something from it.

Wow. Upvote worth $1000 is impressive. Good solution could be to have special tag for high quality pictures, like pro-photography or something like that.

  1. creating a new tag saying things like “onlyphotos” or “justpics” something than makes it clear to only use it if there are pics.

For high quality pics, perhaps creating the tag “HQpics” or “PROphotos”

  1. another option would be to create a new interface that connects with steem blockchain, in which people can upload only pics (similar to dtube) and have some sort of bot upvoting good posts, like the one from utopian.
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the second idea is exactly what I wanted to suggest. steemit really needs an interface for photographers. something for making albums and managing lots of tags.

it is best crowdsource solution and its a wondefull idea many of us uses all these famous tags and now no one care for use these tags for any type of post and no think this tag is well combination with our post..

i see many type of tags but no one see like as a solutions of problems tag i think a tag would be must
where we post for answer our solutions of any type and when we use this tag and ask some thing which difficult for us and we want to look solution we will make a post to use that tag and experts come on that posts and give some better answer and help us @cryptoctopus

What about the introduction of keyword search?

with this, certain topic could be easily looked for as related to a particular post

The tag section, from my perspective its really good but new users find it a little bit hard to use appropriate tag as related to the post they made.

They usually end up using popular tag which is not in any form related to their post.

Making it somewhat hard to source them appropriately

It could be differentiated with the use of new, trending and hot tab as related to reward

The tagline system is awful simply because people insist on using tags that do not apply to the area, most likely to scalp votes.

Communities should help this although that would require moderators which I am not sure is the answer.

Photography might be a bit easier to alter since it is possible to scan through the posts to see if there are any images in it. Of course, one could simply post travel pics like you alluded to and end up with the same thing.

I share your frustration when I go into the steem tagline looking for updates about steem pricing, movement, or articles about the token. Instead, it seems to be a catchall for anything posted on Steemit.

I wish I had some ideas as to a solution but I do not....other than moderating, either with people or algorithms, it is tough. And some categories could use an algorithm but one like photography, how does it know it is a just a pic posted or a true post about one's photography?

The tag is a wonderful tag that should be respected by all, I think a post should be made frequently to update users to only pictures with high quality and violation of this will attract an flag or no upvote this will help check a percentage of abuse on the tag.

To solve the topic of labels I think it's educating the STEEMIANOS have know how to use the correct label

Through POST-education
MENDIANTE VIDEO Tutorials
I think many learn watching VIDEO and that way there would be higher quality labels that want to cure

The solution is really simple, extended tag filters that allows us to filter post by including multiple tags and excluding a tag. the good old AND, OR and NOT.
#photography NOT #travel NOT #life

Agreed that the tag photography is broken. I think the photography tag is WAY to broad. I think it should be broken down into many such as travel photography, professional photography, fashion photography and many many others.
Step 2: Then with the help of a bot we could comment on posts that use "photography" that it's too broad and is being boycotted by the whales and that whales will be giving big upvotes to people who post in the more specific tags.
Step 3 Find some benevolent whales to start upvoting in those tags.
Then hopefully the quality will move to the tags and leave the spam in the photography tag.

That's my 2 cents ; )

I am agree with you, tags should be related to the content.

I don’t know if I have a solution, but I have some thoughts about what kind of solution would work, which might or might not be helpful. I think they’re mostly implicit in what folks are suggesting, but it’s helpful to me to state it explicitly:

1. A solution should be intuitive for new users.
I’m a fairly new user, and am myself no doubt guilty of some accidental tag abuse, even as someone who’s trying to learn the community and be at pains to educate myself about Steemit best practices. I’ve been tagging posts like I would on most blogging websites—make sure you fill your five—even if some of them are less focused.

A solution should be something new users gravitate to on their own.

In other words, some degree of psychological nudge-design may be in order.

2. It should be non-coercive and non-punitive.
A decentralized system with a broad appeal doesn’t seem likely to grow and improve through more policing. Again, a path-of-least-resistance solution makes the most sense. Eventually, the police won’t be able to keep up, and without a central authority backing them, the police become just another faction—and an ill-tempered one at that.

I also think in this particular case, a punitive solution risks alienating serious artists whose medium of choice is camera-phones, or people with good equipment just starting out who are bad, but well-intentioned photographers.

3. It shouldn’t require additional development.
This is maybe wishful thinking, but again, it seems like a solution should emerge from the community. It strikes me as contrary to the ethos of blockchain to appeal to a central authority to solve the community’s problems. Even though some of my favorite solutions from the replies involve changes to the UI/structure of the site. Personally, I think the simplest development-based solution would be to restrict the number of tags per post. It doesn’t eliminate the problem, and it’s a little coercive, but it obliges users to make decisions and clarify the purpose of the post. Obviously, current users could do a version of this by choosing to restrict ourselves to two or three posts, and concentrating upvotes on posts with fewer, more concise tagging.

4. It should be able to handle some level of intentional/unintentional abuse.
This combines some of the points made above, but basically, people are going to try to abuse it, or abuse it by accident. It needs to be able to survive that behavior.

So, in light of my idealistic list of requirements...I like the idea of voluntarily limiting ourselves to fewer tags per post, and concentrating upvotes on posts with fewer tags. Obviously, there are issues with that, but it rewards purposeful posts without punishing others. Still pretty subject to abuse, I guess.

I also like the ideas that involve new, more specific tags. I just think that energy would need to be put into making those tags attractive to users.

Sorry for the giant post. Hope it’s at least a little helpful.

A simple-ish way is to separate the camera photographs from the smartphone photographs. The distinction of photography from pictures should be cleared to all, photography tags should be used if the person/author took the photograph by him/herself. Picture tag if it was downloaded or it came from the internet.

This still very vague, but hey, we all start somewhere, little by little...

babysteps.

We can't solve this in just one sitting.
Just my 2 cents. ;)

Of course there are pitfalls. For example, some answers are misleading, giving you a wrong direction. Some answers are at low quality. All those problems need to be solved by the crowdsourcing websites.

@cryptoctopus
What I learned here :
Steemit is not only about UPVOTES & Money
It is about writing..
It is about reading..
It is about knowing people and their side of the story..
It is about learning..
It is about finding a path to follow..
It is about keeping yourself motivated to write better..
It is about broadening your thinking..
It is about spending your time productively..
It is about making you think from a different perspective..
It is about writing without any expectations of UPVOTES..

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I have quite a hard time believing that. I think majority of people use the platform the wrong way. However, I want to assume I'm wrong, and I'll keep trying as much as possible to understand the platform better. Thanks.

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You should totally write an article about the bitrate of your IO, since your username is InputOutput, following for the hope that you do.

I'm 100% agreed with the idea of @billbutler. It could be a good enhancement, and will definitely serve the community.
Sir @crptoctopus I really appreciate your positive thoughts (Although all the seniors should participate in such types of enhancements for sake of our awesome community. I know some of them are already participating). But you always come with some emerging ideas / proposal only for the sake of help towards common people.

==================RESPECT==================

Sir in my view point there should be created an system like @utopian-io. And take any random name like: Pix-travel-life. Or only for pictures you can take : pixtures.
Blog would be examined first and if it fulfills the criteria would be approved and then rewarded. Definitely you would need an team in this regard but this project could be revolutionary.

All the best dear @cryptoctopus, keep it up your good work. My 100% support is always with you.

The best and easiest solution is to create new tag for community, which is already proposed by someone.
But here I am suggesting two ideas which can be implemented with the help of bots.

  • sorting of posts which have their first tag as photography. Because I believe most of the people who publish a post with photography as main tag upload better quality pictures or at-least they think it's worth to showcase.
    For example: if I have taken good pictures during travel and want to showcase my skill of photography. I will put main tag photography then travel life fun nature etc. But if I have taken photos of low quality then I will put small write-up about my visit to perticular place and support it with pics. Then I will have my first tag travel or in some cases life then followed by other tags.

  • This is interesting. Any post with good quality pictures will be havier in size as compared to low quality pics. So sorting out all the posts with photography tag in order of size in mb will yield better results. Obviously we need not to do it.
    Also for better results we can use both techniques together.

I have been thinking about the same thing lately (not specifically for #photography, but tags in general), and I really believe there needs to be some changes to the tags if we want to find better content more quickly. Right now discovering new and good content is very difficult!

My proposed solution

One solution I have been thinking about is to have the community help decide the tags. Right now we can have up to five tags, and a single upvote will bump that post into trending/hot on all five tags.

What I would like to see was the ability for the author to select 5 tags just like today, and let the community suggest more tags. In addition I want to let everyone vote on the tags. Here a simple upvote/downvote system would do, completely independent from money rewards.

The system should be pretty easy to follow; just upvote the post for the tag if you think the tag fits. This could give it a small bump up the hot/trending page of only that tag. An upvote would still bump it up in the trending pages for all the tags.

If you don't think the tag fits, you could downvote it to make it go down the trending/hot ranking for that particular tag. I would also prefer if a certain amount of downvotes for a certain tag completely removed it, so it would not even show up there.

I think this could add a lot of value, and make it easier for communities to moderate certain tags by agreeing upon what should fit in this tag or not. We've been seeing some spam posts in the #norway tag lately because it's a fairly rewarding tag, and this has made it a lot more difficult for curators to find good content about Norway. With this proposed feature we could get rid of all those spam posts without spending SP to downvote the posts.

The problems

The solution is far from perfect, but I think it could be a good place to start. One problem I have in mind is that if the tag votes are independent from voting power and Steem Power, spammers and trolls could easily manipulate it to remove relevant tags, or add non-related tags. A solution could of course to have it tied with Steem Power, but then again, we have some rather unpredictable whales on this platform, so that might not really work.

This became really a really long post, so I hope some of you had time to read it. Please leave me some feedback for it so that we can work together to find a good solution for this problem!

Also, crowdsourcing problems in this manner is a great idea, @cryptoctopus! I believe we will get many potentially good solutions in the comment section here :)

Best regards from @valth

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So far, I like the general trend of this post, and @demotruk’s post above. I think findings ways to simplify some version of your proposed system could be a workable solution, bearing in mind that no solution is perfect. Do you think a system where the tags function as the delivery vehicle for a curator’s entire interaction with a post (so upvoting/downvoting a post can only be done through one of the tags) could solve the problem you outlined in the second half of your post? It feels to me like it would make voting power/steem power inextricable from tags.

On the other hand, it presents a problem for posts that are difficult to categorize.

Cryptoctopus, I think the idea of crowdsourcing is underestimated, specially on such a powerful social media blockchain as SteemIt has. Needs to be better utilized. I'm applying the idea to BidBots and providing a way to bring quality posts to the top using a consilidated blog post of links of Steemians. I think we need to pursue more crowdsourcing initiatives and you should spur that on for sure! great post.

The best in my opinion would be to start your own tag. For example, under the science there are numerous posts and not all are high quality and some are even copy pasted etc. Bottom, bad quality.

Then came the SteemSTEM team and they created their own tag with their own regulations that users must follow to use the steemstem tag. And now if we want to read some quality science post we just have to visit the steemstem tag and it's almost guaranteed you'll come across great articles.

So you can do something similar too. Come up with minimum or basic quality requirements of the pictures that can be uploaded under your new tag and soon if people wanna see some quality snapshots, they can visit the tag.

Just a suggestion, how about #steemsnaps as the tag? xD xD

P.S. : Just added myself to your fanbase on steemauto!!

Some people just have a knack for finding and crafting the perfect share. The rest of us have to work a little harder. Really, great social media sharing is a skill. And like all other skills, it requires a little strategy and a lot of practice to perfect.

I think better go for a unique tag

Dear, @cryptoctopus, You raised a valid point here. It seems like tags are being misused and it should be stopped.
I like the idea of using one tag with one post. with this, people will choose the specific tag.

I thank you for this useful topic. @cryptoctopus
Plus I do not take it just steem me making money
But to educate myself and learn about many of the cultures of the world is a creative show
Exchange ideas with others
Help and support others there and many more
We are the family and the Steemt family must move forward
I want everyone to know friends and people suggesting them steemt
I want to be better than Facebook soon. :D

I think photo is better for the particular picture
Because photography comes in manner of professionality
That sometime not exist

Wow post thanks for a great idea.

detailed labels like self-photo, proof-photo amateur-photo can be opened. and can be flagged to those who use the tags irrelevantly to make it regular. @cryptoctopus

have a complete leader spirit bro👍

This is an important topic. @cryptoctopus
I appreciate you wanting to advance my steemt forward
For me the only income source is steemt due to unemployment in our country
I am referred to me by all the middle of the abode I want to know the whole world steemt
I have another goal when I collect over 100,000 steemt
I create and fund projects for the unemployed youth who can build their family
In addition, I set up an orphanage for me
And my greetings to you is a very big topic

You are right these tags are crowded of late.
I suggest we customize and add a tag related to life, because the life tag is so wide. I will come up with one. Another is to add some tags like blog.
For now that's about it, i welcome your reply.

  ·  3년 전

It could be partly solved by bringing some real photographers together to create a curation account - just as the scientists did with @steemstem. let's say "purephotography" - just for example, I'm sure there are more creative people out there when it comes to finding names.^^

quality photographers could be encouraged right from their introduction post to use that tag for their work in addition to #photography . That would generate a tag with less bullshit/crossover photography, just as there is less BS in #steemstem as compared to #science.

People continuosly misusing the tag for their travel/life posts could be educated not to do so by friendly telling them --> reproving them --> downvoting them & reporting them to steemcleaners for tag abuse

I think, at first people must be self aware about what certain tag is about and if their category falls in the list or not. But there are many new comers (i am new too) who just want to post their stuff on different subjects and hope for some views or upvotes hopefully because they dont have proper knowledge how it works.
#Photography -meaning simple means to capture a photo. But it doesn't tell what quality, height,width,pixel the picture should be. I think the people who are already familiar with how the tags work and how its affects the content should interact with new ones and teach them the better way of doing it so they can produce quality works in the future. If i post something ther must be someone to notify that it doesnt fit the title or the subject so that i get aware and educate myself and others too.So people helping each others is a good option in my opinion.

How about attaching weights to the placement of tags? Like the first tag is the primary tag. From the second onwards, the tags keep getting less and less important. So whenever displaying the posts under specific tags, the algorithm along with other factors would consider the placement of that specific tag and rank the post accordingly.

I think good pictures should be well evaluated, we do not evaluate some good work so we should look at this.

Yeah in steemit tag has a very importance and its a usefull to find a topics what you want to read or what you want to know ..if any one want to post some article is it good or bad or qualiry or not quality content ..that is not a matter we alwas use tag which is related to the post ...so in my opinion tags are very helpfull and usefull to find a content what we want easily...so my advice what is dont waste the time of readers by putting false newses and non scence in the blog by taging the good topics this causes good content loose the value...so be uniqe and share good and usefull content by using tags....@cryptoctopus

Demotruk’s propsal is solid. The +1 option or setting up a sub sector for high quality photography would be great. Have a good weekend!

To My Dear @cryptoctopus:

Use AI.

Seriously though, what a great thought you have to improve the use of tags.

Photography is such a wide-ranging term. I might say it is too general to be of help as a tag, so it makes a good example of the problem.

And there are some good ideas put forth here already, and hopefully more good ideas to come.

I suggest you apply some semantic meaning to your tags. This approach might use a "Meta" level tag that is more broad (like "Art" or "News") and you might even describe these relationships using javascript dot notation as has been suggested.

My suggestion is to continue to allow users to create the tag relationships that make sense to them, just like they do now on Twitter, IG, Facebook etc.. but just to focus on dramatic improvement to the user experience.

Data already can be sliced and diced by processors in more ways than v1.0 humans can even understand that data.

Relationships can be explored in individualized ways, improving efficiency to find the info you seek. So the real improvement I am suggesting is in the User Experience. The form of the UI would naturally follow the function.

Lols
I have been reading comments and everyone is saying create a new tag

Funny enough if a new tag is been created it would also be crowded so I don't think creating a new tag is a good idea now.

Now what's trying to say now is that, we are know you are a very popular person on steemit so if you make anoucement on any tag it would surely get crowded just like your comment box (lols)

I think you should do random curation secretly just as @blocktrades was doing before the rented out his sp.. :-(

I think this is the best idea
@thejohalfiles also does this somehow

  ·  3년 전

As much as I hate to say it, I am guilty of using the photography tag even though all my photos are simply done with a smartphone. Obviously I still think my pictures are nice and so do other users, but by no means would I consider them professional photography. I agree with you that the photography tag would be a lot nicer to browse through if it were more professional.

I guess it would be tough to constitute "professional" in there but I would assume as long as the person was using a DSLR or mirrorless style camera that it would be better. I see that the problem is actually enforcing this. Well here's what I think.

I know that the tag smartphonephotography is used by @photocontests pretty frequently, but like you said people are using multiple tags anyway so when they use "smartphonephotography" they also add "photography". The reason for also adding photography is because the much higher potential for viewers.

If we were able to push up the smartphonephotography tag to be one of the top tags on Steemit, which I feel like it should given the amount of smart phone shot that get posted here, then people would still feel very inclined to use it since it offers a higher viewership potential. At this point, however, people will most likely use both tags still.

Not sure if this is at all a thing on Steemit, but what if the "presence" that your post had with a tag depended on what order you put it in your post? Like the 4th/5th tag wouldn't show up as high on that tag even if voted a lot since the priority is given to the first and second tags?

Not sure if any of that made sense but just trying to help with ideas.

I saw a #food apparently unhealthy, never considered to be healthy by a science, to be tagged #health and #life too. I would flag it, but I am afraid I would get flagged back for something. Making flags anonymous would make me hesitate not to flag the post, I didn't like anyway. So encouraging community to be able to flag better and creating conditions for critical minds to do so with ease is step number one.

My second idea is to improve Stemmit in a way that not everybody has to be an author. I wrote about my problem with quality-lacking feed in these two posts:
https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@greenmask9/minds-launches-crypto-tokens-in-1q2018-making-major-competitor-to-stemmit
https://steemit.com/steemit/@greenmask9/my-ideas-on-improving-stemmit-feed

If it makes money to you when you take a photo of your biceps, which is not superiour in any way, nor the background, there is something wrong. Especially if you can use completely unrelated tags for it. It is up to community to solve this though.

Sorry im guilty. Ive done it once but it was a great picture I took with my iPhone and I was real proud of this photo.😋
https://steemit.com/travel/@californiacrypto/las-vegas-trip-getting-ready-to-go-once-again-and-i-found-one-of-the-nicest-photos-ive-ever-taken

Great point and good initiative. Im new to steemit and am learning as I go but I will keep that in mind next time I want to post a photo.

I think it would be good to educate the new users on best ways to use tags correctly.

I think you are right.I think we should put a new label on the photo label as well as quality photos.Because professionalism is very different... @cryptoctopus

I think a good idea might be prioritizing tags depending on the order they are written. This way it will give more importance to the first ones. And we could have a guideline to have order.

Hey, nice write, it is interesting. I am following you, can you follow me @xtophercruzeu thanks

great idea thanks for sharing carry on

yeah u are ri8 but steemit isnt just about making money but we have to grow together, share our thoughts & ideas or in other words to know eachother like a real family

There is nothing wrong with tags as a concept, nothing needs to be changed with how you tag content. Steemit.com should kill off the tagging statistics and create a daily trending tag navigation along the left with weighting towards new and trending tags. This in combination of mass content or reputable users making new tags will stimulate a break down of the current flooding of the taxonomy. In addition a REAL search needs implemented not this google search garbage... I hope this is in the works anyways because google search appliance will be terminated by 2019. The only full tag navigation that should exist is as facets to search queries.

Thats my two cents, but what do I know. I only make enterprise websites for a living.

I am new here on Steemit and Your Article really helpful for me.I got many new things.

Thanks for your nice post it will helpful for me to get more success on Steemit.

I love this

Super Idee

Weieter so

I think this could be a classic implementation for machine learning. I would expect a very high resolution photograph with minimal text in a post found in the #Photography, no need to take my word for it, thousands of posts can be analysed and features extracted to identify properties of 'quality posts' in both tags then each new post is scored with the algorithm to determine the most appropriate tag. I just might be blabbing here, deployment might be tedious.

#photo for "amateur photography" made with cellphones and #photography for "real photography" by high quality cameras and good photographers was my first idea :) But I don't know if people would appreciate that idea as they are used to use the #photography.

And I have to admit that newbies (and I consider myself a newbie too) don't really know they offend good photographers in that way. But when I read your post I was : Damn, he is totally right!!! There is a HUGE difference between the pictures of a high quality photographer and a cellphone artist :D

Maybe a do's and don'ts guide for posting picures and photos on Steemit would be amazing so everyone knows how to act adequate and don't offend others. Because (at least in my case) offending is the last thing ever I want to do! :)

I really want to say thank you for a)the challenge/project and b)your feedback which really made me think about using tags on Steemit! Sometimes we need a little push and hint to get something right and see a situation clearly :)
Best wishes to you and your family :)

·

Rather than asking cellphone photographers to change their tag, it would be better to create a new tag for High Quality Photography. I suggest #HQphotography for those looking for the next level of perspective.

·
·

Great idea @macmaniac77!! It's true, "amateur photographers" who are used to use the #photography tag will be less likely to change their behaviour as they do it for such a long time, it just became normal to them. But high quality photographers will be happy about the new quality tag they can use to stand out the poor quality photos! :)
Thank you very much for your feedback!!

I think we need more than a new tag , we need more tags
We need to make small communities for each country or each culture
More catogories keeps things in place
People who don't want more categories want their posts to be seen my many people, which is not right , more people means more posts means your post is not even being noteced
And also it's easier to review the posts and reward the good ones

That's a great idea and solution..Keep up it..

What if we could add a slider for each tag? So we could say that my post does include photography, but it is not the main focus. Maybe a percentage slider would work?

So for example, if i am making a post about scientific content, and i have a strong focus on science, i could have the main tag be steemstem, which i would slide up to 60%.
But since it still relates to other subjects, i would allocate 10% to four other subjects (Blockchain, steemit, crypto and steem for example).

The percentage given to a tag would decide the "strength" of the post under the given tag. So a post with a 100% allocation to a given would have a higher priority than one with 30%.
The higher the percentage, the longer it would stay at the top of the page for example.
This could even allow for more than 5 tags. So you can choose to add 10 tags with 10% each, but this would be a poor idea, as they would quickly dissapear under each category.

I know that this won't solve the issue completely, but it might force people to better think about the tags they add to a post, and thus make the tags more relevant?
Does it make any sense?

At least that's just my two cents, it could be an interesting way of doing it i believe :)

Cheers man, have a great day!

Maybe create a new tag wich is called #professionalphotography for only pictures with real camera's?

Some people don't understand how to tag their work properly in the first place. I know I still make a mistake here and there with them, but it's a completely innocent mistake on my part. I'm still learning how to work this posting and promoting thing. I think I've finally gotten the hang of it though. I still have a lot to learn. I mostly post under life, blog, writing, and #steemusa, but sometimes I post under photography if I'm sharing more photos than writing.
Assisting people in learning how the system works should be everyone's priority for the next year, not flagging content because they misplaced their post. Education is paramount. If they've been on longer than a year, they should know better and they may deserve a three strike warning before flagging. Idk, I'm still too new to this to really give a decent response, but I hope some of what I've said helped.
Much love and light,
X

Your problem for the photography tag is the same problem that is present in many other tags and certainly all over the internet. The problem is that people have different perceptions of what's 'good'. To fix this issue I would suggest to upvote and comment on photography that you consider good, this should encourage those photographers to upload more content to steemit. If the 'bad' photography is really that bad it shouldn't get any likes or attention and those people will naturally give up or improve their skills until they actually take good photos. Hope this helps :P

a very interesting post. thanks for sharing

Maybe people who make high-quality photos can add 1 to the tag? Well, this is for example. But obviously you need a new tag for high-quality photos.

I think this paltform should show what each tag can be used for . I feel like it’s difficult to stop people from using a tag because as I know , new people or even people that have been on this paltform try to use tags that are popular so they can get awareness . I feel like the first tag should show the importance of the topic/picture .

$1000 HOLY SHIT

hi guys all what you have said is good, and i also think that tags should be related to the content

@cryptoctopus, seems to me that one of the things Steemit could use is a group of "preset" tags, or a category tree. On most sites that allow tagging, the tag fields will start autofilling if you're using a "known" tag. Having that feature also serves the function of minimizing "typo orphans."

I read somewhere about Steemit instituting "Communties," and surely having some preset tags would also greatly help sort the content for such an initiative.

To solve your issue, though, would take a form of "intelligent" tagging. Part of the issue might be addressed in terms of how your display spools... maybe a toggle so that when you click on the "photography" tag, you have an option (or default?) to view only posts where photography is the primary tag. However, that is functionally problematic due to the many photography challenges and contests that require the contest tag to be the primary.

So this brings us back to intelligent or "forced" tagging/categorization, as in allowable tags exist within a tree structure "photography > travel > Greece" or "photography > nature > birds."

Alternately, we may even need a categorized tree structure that exists independently of tags... so if (for example) what you the viewer were wanting to look at photos from Greece, that's a possible function that works independently of actual tags. You still have the option to display content by either method, but the results would be different.

yes you are right i am using story tag but when i see story tag its show many different different post like photography and food i think steemit.com have to guide users to use tags according to their posts .

in my opinion this is the most normal solution is to limit the number of tags in posts. Also use another tag and motivate people to make really high-quality photos or posts, which they will mark with one of the necessary tags.

Great your publication, keep it up, brother. Greeting from venezuela

I’ve read through several comments and I personally feel like

  1. More tags creates more freedom to identify a post. Yes, these new tags will eventually become crowded as well, therefore

  2. Limitations on tags. For instance, when using the “photography” tag, it would make sense to analyze the photo to make sure it meets certain requirements. Beautiful images can be captured from phones these days, and can meet general requirements regarding image quality and size. In addition, creating “sub tags” so to speak would allow for those wanting to share photos that may not meet the “photography” criteria, but most certainly will meet the “snapshot” tag, which is more general and self defined as a quick shot of something, not necessarily a noteworthy image.

  3. We can utilize the Steemit community to generate useful tags. I am a new steemian so this is simply an idea that my fellow, more versed Steemians can develop.

  4. Is there a way to limit tag use for a period of time? Maybe an “allotment” of tags can be created somehow to keep crowding at bay. This allotment would regenerate on a consistent basis somehow, so that older posts are cataloged or archived somehow and marked as a non-active tag of some sort? Again, this idea is simply that, without any knowledge of knowing if it could truly exist.

This same problem continues to happen on Instagram (where I’ve shared primarily before discovering Steemit). What Instagrammers do is create “communities” around ever-evolving hashtags, meaning that tags are created, they get used and engaged with by individuals who desire to be part of that community, then if they get popular or saturated, we move on.

The names of these tags go far beyond #photography. They can become rather esoteric like “AwaketheLight”, a project started by one talented photographer that inspired more than 14,000 posts in 8 months, most of which were high quality and in-line with the original tag.

The flexibility of moving on is what keeps it interesting. Individuals like yourself that have major sway in this community can instigate tags that only your followers (and those who are determined to create exemplary content and get discovered) will engage with, keeping the feed high-quality until it’s time to move on.

Anyone else have experience with tag-based communities like this in the realm of photography? Or, anyone interested in cooperating on fun, interpretive photo projects and sharing?

I’m super new to Steemit and stoked to get a lay of the land and start sharing!

Sir@cryptoctopus im agree 100% with you...
Thanks for asking question ....

Steem on

That is awesome!!

Seems like the chatter with the coming of "communities" on Steemit that there needs to be bifurcations/breakdowns of the most popular tags first. I'm no photo nerd but subdivisions into categories or hubs of photography around different techniques, settings, equipment, etc.

@cryptoctopus, That's excellent idea for changing steemit procedure. I suggest you #shutterup for the name for photography.

Most of the tags are missed up and some don't even serve the stated purpose.

I suggest Steemit should have a link in the welcome page where tags are well explained.

Some posts on photography should be hidden automatically by Steemit if they have one photo...I assume photography tag should have photos and not just just one photo....!!

The Steemit search also does not work well!.

@cryptoctopus I think the tags should be formalized and by this I mean there must be a step taken to recognize some common tags because most of the time people make mistakes in spellings while tagging their posts. Remember Steemit has many people from different ethnicity. That is one thing I want to be worked upon come this year 2018. Hope @jerrybanfield @aggroed @surpassinggoogle @ned have seen my post here.

I do always approve that combination between travel, life and photography. it portrays the beauty of the place visited and directly refect the view of a particular area.
on my view, some appropriate ways should be done to solve this problem. For examples, users should start posting visible pictures and clearly treat their pictures or videos before posting.

We do also need some more tags that can be used to help steemians have a look on what has been posted before by other steemians.
more rewards should also be awarded for clear pictures as Dtube does for it users.
A software should also be designed to help steemians treat and clean their pictures before posting.

Furthermore, steemians should be able to invest or take time in finding a way of bringing out a picture with clear images, this involves purchasing equipments with high quality.

Finally, Dolphins and Whales should support posts with clear pictures. this will encourage people to bring out quality product and the need to perform better.

We could separate some really good photos from mediocre ones. One of the solutions could be next; steemit would have another special tag for really high quality photos. We could use some filter to separate spam photos in that tag. If we couldn't make any filter than steemit could have some bot made for this task. For making photos invisible - flaging low quality photos or innapropriate posts for this section.

·

#HQphotography not unlike the #HQG used by reddit (HighQualityGifs)

I personally think some people end up using some tag Just to fill up the 5 tag requirement(i did that). Reducing the number of tags might not be too great an idea.
But i think a reorientation won't be too bad an idea, you can create an article that would contain the neccessary requirement for a particular tag, what exactly a post Should contain to be eLigible for a particular tag.
And i think creating more tags too can be a great idea.

Im not sure if the site would do this, but maybe there could be a category section on posts where you could pick one category, removing those as tags. Maybe 10-15 general categories. The tags would be secondary. I hope that made sense. Category selections you'd tick just like the upvote box on a post. Or a drop-down menu. Of course, that'd need to be a site design update which a programmer would need to do. Another idea would be to have an option to select where you could see a thumbnail size preview of all the posts instead of such large previews. You could skim more posts faster so you could pick the posts you're more interested in and skip less interesting posts. Again that's a site design modification. Sorry if they don't address your question from a user perspective

I'm new so I'm still trying to understand what tags do. I see a lot of people using tags that aren't on the tag drop-down menu.

The 100% upvote reward will surely get peoples minds cooking. The tags were getring overcrowded with amateur phorohrayphy. Fake just.

Some of the cameras on the phones are very nice these days but it doesn't quite measure up to a professional camera.

I had noticed that the photography tags are diluted and can be difficult to find professional pictures instead of so many pictures coming from cellphones.

I thought maybe a tag that professional (or aspiring) photographers want to use like #photographerseye but that kind of defeats the purpose of the photography tag as well because I originally checked it out to check out professional photos. Of course, there are still 4 other tags to use as well and could be a solution. I've always taken interest professional photography but I've never had a camera or device to take truly professional photos, so I have enjoyed being able to share what I have with the community.

Just like it's not exactly a solution to say find a new tag it wouldn't be a solution to push out certain qualities of devices so I am interested to see where this goes.

🤔

Truth be told - I don't think anything can be done. Especially because those tags are always at the top trending.

Currently - the only way would be for people to use their up-votes and down-votes to vote with their virtual wallets.

I feel your pain as it's very frustrating, mentally anguishing and hard to curate in the photography - new, category; as one has to sift through a lot of crud (to put it nice) to find gold.

It's much like browsing through the user sub in Imgur.com trying to find something halfway decent.

The only 2 options would be to somehow create a system of censorship (which goes against the spirit of Steemit) or (the best solution) have moderators like in Reddit.

If I can think of any better solutions - I'll be sure to reply to this post!

I had my thoughts about this a while ago.

The best I came up with was having subtags to a certain tag.
And more thing I'd like to have would be when you are writing a tag to your post, there comes up a selection box, for example, writing-(poetry, story, blog or others + add new option) In each of them you'd see how many posts are there with a tag like this.

It's easy to get lost in those tags.

great post.A good idea from your side.Keep working on it.hope for the best.

As per my openion you should have a blueprint of a post in your mind, if the post contains photography tag it should have only one pic and it should have atleast such megapixel configuration and if both travel and photography are used then it must contain a story of travelling with it.

I think that a more radical, bigger scale solution will provide a remedy to that problem, among other. It requires a change I guess will have to be a part of a hard fork or at least a backend heavy programming in steemit/busy etc. but it looks like a necessary step for me if we want to be popular as, say, Facebook:

There should be the option to create groups.
The groups will have a admin or a group of admins chosen democratilly, they will decide the standards of the group with the help of the community and will have the ability to add or remove users to and from the group.
The group will always be visible to any user who wishes that but only the group's members will be able to post.
Regarding the photography - there will be an option to have "group tags" and within the tags there will be an option to order the relevant groups according to size/rank of the users. There will an option to follow a group even if you are not a member.
That way - we could create quality group related to any topic, in our case photography, and every one will be able to enjoy the content even without being a member.

I understand it might be a of a centralization of power in the hands of the admins but ensuring methods of democracy will be taken in order to disallow corruption (for a example - changing of the admin when the majority of the members wish so).

Thanks for the initiative! Made me rack my brain!

Nice idea,anyways i think making use of tags like quality which can only be used for photos that worths it should be put into consideration and probably a link that checks photos being uploaded when it comes to photograpy to determine which tag can be used.My humble idea tho.

WOW, so many interessting ideas. Thanks @cryptoctopus for this great post.

As some of the other comments already tell, the quality of a pic/foto can not be measured only by hard facts depending on the hardware. I know many great pictures which where made "on the go" with the device avalable then (often smartphone). A proffesional photograph made by a person who knows about the power of light and knows how to handle a proffesional camera will always be a great pleasure. But to be honest, to create a "new" tag for those will not change anything. Also a voting-system for "matching" tags will not change the described problem, because many people will upvote "unmatching" tags if the picture shown reflects something in the observing user. .... And proffessional photographers will also use the more popular tag to reach more people with there work.

The only thing, I believe, could change the situation, would be a second automated tag-system, which scans all posted articles and analyses the content and then sets automated tags as an additional layer. These two types of tags have to be different (for example every automated tag starts with #auto-photography #auto-cryptocurrency ) so you can search for this seperated tags, AND there has to be a hardcoded ban, that no user can choose #auto- .... tags directly.

I hope you get my idea

very nice photos are amazing

I think the only approach is to create one or a hand full of tags for different styles and qualities of photography. Something like #fineartphoto for high quality photography and for example #archphoto for great architecture photography and so on. Getting these tags started shouldn't be a huge problem for someone with your reach.

As you mentioned in your other post, a category rework and communities don't seem to be around the corner for us, so there's only so much to be done.

Hmmm, maybe @photography can't be saved, but introducing tags like @professionalphotography or @qualityphotography could help users that are looking for such content get rid of the amateur staff? Cheers!

I dont think you can improve on a tag as popular as #photography, and to be honest, it can be tough to determine what is professional or not. It is like asking; what is art?
How about instead of trying to change something that is widely adopted across the web, simply tag the subject that you are photographing?
Perhaps check out newhive.com for ideas. Many years ago, it was created as a social platform that let you create what you want, by using photos and collages.

I'm a newbie here, so i really don't knoe much about tags.
Some persons use a particular tag just to get attention from steemians, and upvotes even though the tag isn't anyway related
My suggestion is that there should be measures put in place to avoid posts that don't fit in a tag from appearing
Another suggestion is that once you try using a tag that doesn't fit your post, you're prevented from making that post, until it's corrected.

Make more contest that motivate the people to make quality photographs with a different theme each day, whether it is about nature, about our lives, cities, people, food, etc. so that all people regardless of the place have the opportunity to participate.

Thanks for the important info
@resteem

The easiest thing I can think of is that we use a new and different tag related to photography that isn't highly used yet. The main issue with that is that if it ever becomes popular it'll also get flooded with posts with that tag.

The issue with tags and hashtags has probably always existed in general. If you look at any other form of social media, they probably also experience a similar issue. I think maybe the best solution would be to implement some form algorithm that highlights photos based on views/activity/shares/re-steems/etc. on a certain post.

I don't know, maybe make contests or something with a new tag, which would provide more quality. With contests, people try to win, so they would be showing their greatest photos!

  • Create a separate tag #ctopus-photo
  • This tag should only be used if you are specifically showcasing your photography skills on Steemit and shouldn't be used as a secondary tag along with travel, life or any other tags.
  • Anyone who will abuse the use of this tag should be penalized by downvoting his/her post. Yes, it sounds strict but to get the right material under the right tag is our objective, so have to do it. They are free to use any photography related tag along with life, travel but not this one. Make this clear to all in a post
  • Hire two or more people who would be reviewing all the posts under this tag and inform you if things are going in the right direction.
  • You can also define and set some standards for the quality of an image by giving some examples like taking some photos from a mobile and from a professional camera as well.
  • Start a contest that you usually do to promote this tag and and keep monitoring! This will serve the purpose I guess!

This problem seems to be part of a larger issue we have which is lack of filtering. One would assume with so many developers on the platform somebody would have come up with a sophisticated filtering tool, be it a standalone frontend app, or extension tools to existing ones.

Comprehensive filtering tool might require larger resources and time. However, if it is only isolated to #photography I think this could be achieved programmatically with fewer resources.

Again it would depend if you wanted this displayed in a separate front-end tool, or some browser extention to steemit.

Few solution could be, isolating posts that use #photography tag as its first tag. Afterwards, there can be further examination of file name, resolution size, where it is hosted, how many photographs in the post, ratio of text/photography of the post, etc.

Another option could be an introduction of the new tag such as #photographypro and somehow hope people would use that only for professional photography. Not sure this would solve much though.

In the end, it will come down to development of sophisticated filtering options on steemit or any other Steem app.

I'm just new and learning from my mistakes, but looking at the number of messages with these tags (photo and life), I realize that this is a problem.
Judging logically, it is necessary to encourage users to use another tag that will describe in more detail the content under which it is located

  ·  3년 전

Thank you @cryptoctopus I am a photographer and am glad you took note of the photography tag. If you are much interested in photography, I think creating a photography challenge with a specific tag might be a solution.

I like the idea of category like cats.photography that another user mentioned. That immediately takes their interest level and then photos.
The same principle could be applied to any category, tho. It's frustrating to look at the tag Crypto and have 1,000,000 irrelevant things pop up BUT if crypto.steem or crypto.ethereum (you get the picture.) In a drop-down menu, in alphabetical order... My OCD mind would be quite happy.

cryptoctopus You are again doing something exciting and wonderful
The Post has touched me
It's really wonderful to know more about Watt's details

Yes, it's definitely a problem. I think we need subs instead of tags. A la Reddit.

Hmmm, my two cents in the matter is to provide restrictions to the usage of tag.

Option 1

It's common for a travel post to have photos in it, so the system should prohibit both tag to be used at the same time, together with food as well.

Options 2

Another option is to embed a photo analyzer and checks the equipment used to capture. Those that are captured using mobile may be restricted in using photography tag. This however may have an elitist undertone.

To summarize, only one of these tags can be used: (1) photography, (2) food and (3) travel

Further research and analytics maybe used to find common correlated tags, and for these cases they should also be put into a single category. Meaning, when one of them is selected, the others can no longer be chosen.

i really need this

A tag so commercial and widely used would be extremely hard or even impossible to fix. This problem is not in photography itself so my suggestion is general and could be applied to other hashtags also. Instead of fixing the tag, it would be easier (and in time smarter) to create a community which values high quality photographies and posts under a specific tag. It would take time to make it popular but I think that it would pay out. You could even create a Steemit profile with the group / community's name and reward the participants; create event and contests etc. In best case scenario it would motivate not even the participants but the whole Steemit community as well. Creators would aim to post high quality content and "consumers" would know where that content is and would happily enjoy it.

Tags are a bit of a double edged sword. You want to use fairly generic ones, popular ones, so that people will be able to find and read your post. As much as you want to use specific tags, if they aren’t popular, people won’t search for them, and your post will go unread.

If the platform standardizes more specific tags, I think it’ll run into the same problems you are describing. People will still use the tags for things that don’t fit. People will still post garbage.

Upvoting tags, as suggested by @demotruk, is an option, but sounds kind of complicated. I think it’s the best way to ensure the tags are accurate and the content is quality.

Ultimately, unless the platform becomes exclusive, it’s going to attract people who just want to make money fast. Maybe having a downvote for posts and/or for tags would be a good way to discourage misuse. This way, you could see how many downvotes a post has and skip it.

I don’t know... just some thoughts...

What if when uploading a picture of certain pixel size, that a program or code would detect the size, if it is larger than a specific threshold, then a specific tag could be used.. then perhaps that would limit grainy photos.

Then maybe when the photo (all of the photos in the post must meet the size requirement) is added, an extra tag like hdphotography appears, kind of like the "promote" button.

I do agree with your assessment of the diminishing quality of the tag. So so many posts.

Well i believe whether or not photos are categorized as professional or just casual, is highly dependent on the new tag. Personally i think for one to passionately drop professional posts with such high standards, then he muat have intentions to revisit such posts in the future.
so i suggest a tag to narrow down the professional look.. Something like #photojournal
And then a sub tag to show the areas the photographs belong.
Hope this makes sense..

Yeah, I was wondering about this as well! #Photography is so general and inclusive, which is cool, but also makes it really hard to browse as there is so much content. I definitely think that having more specific tags would be good, like @photocontests encourages you to use.

What would happen if you were only able to tag one thing per post? Would it just make your post less visible, or would it force people to think through their tags more carefully and therefore clean up the feeds of various tags? Not sure what the effect would be.

Definitely worth continuing discussion on the topic! I'm excited about what you and @jrue are working on, I think having more quality photography curators will be really helpful.

Well i believe whether or not photos are categorized as professional or just casual, is highly dependent on the new tag. Personally i think for one to passionately drop professional posts with such high standards, then he muat have intentions to revisit such posts in the future.
so i suggest a tag to narrow down the professional look.. Something like #photojournal
And then a sub tag to show the areas the photographs belong.
Hope this makes sense..

I think why SBD is losing value ?
@cryptoctopus

I'm ready to check the tags of photos if this work is will be rewarded

This is a very similar problem to clickbait and people using misleading tags. It would be nice for some sort of verification; however, it should not come at the cost of speed and rate of posting. Ex: You post a picture and it takes longer for your post to get verified. There are a few solutions to this problem: one could be AI that scans posts and looks for words or synonyms corresponding to your tags. Another option could be for the community as a whole to get together to stop this and report misleading posts that are not using the correct tags. With a high emphasis on discipline, reformation, and ultimately fine-tuning the community. The latter of the two would allow for the community to be strengthened. However, there is an alternative, that would be subtags within a tag to be more specific and narrow such as in your case with photography could be either in color or monochrome. As well as allowing the user to narrow down the type of photography they are doing or the type of equipment you used.

I do believe there should be some Poetry or Singing tag too. @cryptoctopus

I am talking about a similar problem, in my recently uploaded video, which i made a post yesterday for.
It is about the overuse of some tags and categories, and almost not using other tags, because people think they have to go in to the biggest paid out category.

Also i am not sure, but would it be easier to create a specific tag, that you only can use with an approval?

And i mean , collecting the best artworks and users who are making great contents, posts videos, in a specific section, and anybody could reach that level, but they have to work for it!

Because some times i look at a post about some type of photography, and it is just another annoying snapshot.
I also made a post about trying to teach my mom to make better photos, and with only a few advice she instantly got better. I don't think, any technical information, or even the usage of a high or low budget camera will make a difference. The difference is going to come when someone is gonna have enough experience, or just a good eye for something. Because if we learn our limits, and the limits of our equipment, we will create better than average artwork with it. Wether if it is a a phone camera or a 50 000 dollar RED set.

Also it is really important not to discourage new people, and amateur or beginning artists from something that they want to do. This is why i think we should just make a specific type for a category, where only the best could get in, but also leave the doors unlocked for anybody who is making amazing work to join.

Making a logarithm or any kind of web software to filter bad quality content is gonna be unsuccessful. But if we can monitor, and decide if somebody is making the right quality, we can let them know, that from now on, they are allowed to post in a specific category. This way we can actually make a difference ,and wont bother each other, also still leave room to newcomers who are "worthy" to join in a professional section of a topic, tag, category ...

Nice post beautiful presented and explained. detail oriented with nice pics. thank you for sharing this with us, Upvoted

If you mind checking out my blog @cryptoctopus for latest posts and updats, Thank you

The tag should be specified. Many people mix up the tag. They don't know what tag to use for what.
#photography seems like a general tag to me

  ·  3년 전

We have a great tag, but steemit makes it open for anyone to use any tag, I think a bot should be created to drop comments on posts using the tag, comment like
The picture quality is low and does not meet the standard of this tag.

This will refrain people from using the tag.

A lot of the ideas I keep having have to do with the developer side of things, and would be a lot of work and I'm not even convinced they're great ideas :) For now, I think the best idea that I've had is having certain tags exclusive. For instance, if you tagged photography you wouldn't be able to tag other things, but only photographic specific tags (I saw another comment here kind of similar about specific photography tags). That way, you wouldn't be running into a lot of broad tags covering a lot of bases. Instead, you would have a main subject, and then other tags funneling down from there. For travel, you could tag travel, and then other tags related to traveling (hiking, city, etc). I've heard rumors of "communities" and maybe that's the direction that those would take eventually.

I know having photographic specific tags would also be on the developer side, but at this point I can't think of any idea that wouldn't be on the developer side. Hope this helps, and I'm excited to see what comes of this! If there's anything I can do to help, just let me know!

how about something like : #photographyinspiration .. I feel like the name of the tag gives off a feeling of an excellent photo of a certain high caliber while not making "amateur" photographers with quality photography feel excluded by using words such as professional. I myself wouldn't feel appropriate attaching #photographyinspiration to a photo taken by phone or other methods of poor quality

I'm new to steemit and hoping to learn from the comments here. Would however share if i come with something. Keep up the good work!

In the early days of Twitter before hash tags took off some of us were playing with the idea of machine tags like Flickr was using. I've always liked the idea of a hybrid system. i.e. #namespace:modifier=value

Using regexp on this kind of data you can scrape for very specific purposes.

What I envision is #CurationGroupName:category=entrydata in combination with #CurationGroupName.

This would also allow you to be extra vigilant with flags for tag spam in the chosen namespace.

I'm not sure if you are interested in technical solutions like this or if you were just looking for some tag suggestions. I tend to favor technical solutions that allow you to code a backend.

I haven't had time to look at the Steem api yet but I have been thinking about this idea for a while.

Thanks for the post.

Keep Steeming!

I'm learning a lot from the comments here as i am new to steemit and would like to see how i can contribute to make it better.

Keep up the good work everyone.

Just make #photografy a SUPER TAG, once a person uses this tag all others will be dismissed! easy solution.
@cryptoctopus

I think we have to restrict the people who are posting bad quality pictures with the tag #photography , rather they should use the tag #cellphonephotography , we can remove this problem by dividing the photography tag into tags like #food-photography, #travel-photography and many more other categories.

Photography tag itself is vast phenomenon and we must have sub division of photography tag like :-

photography-nature
photography - events
photography - social
photography - political

and these subdivisions will definitely help to reach to the desired post quickly thus saving time and also making the category much better.

Thank you @cryptoctopus and Have a great day.

This si vast concept and photography is the most heavily trafficked tag at the moment in steemit and that is the reason why some shit phtography are also getting flooded. Micro divisions of this tag is good but it requires a lot of changes and developement and much scrutiny is needed while making the sub divisions of this tag.

And it is equally difficult to stop people to use this tag and this is fact we must consider as well.

Thanks

#photography is really an excellent tag and most people are also posting shit pics in this tag in an effort to grab some vote, so the idea should be make divisons like #life-photography #travel-photography #country-photography #season-photography #tutorial-photography #education-photography #ceoncert-photography #sports-photography #ocean-photography #space-photography

Like wise many subtags can be generated to channelize the submission of relevant posts to the relevant tags.

Thank you...steem on and stay blissful....

The tag is a fantastic tag that must be respected with the aid of all, I suppose a put up have to be made often to update users to simplest snap shots with high nice and violation of this could entice an flag or no upvote this can help check a percentage of abuse at the tag.

Dear cryptoctopus
This comment has nothing to do with this article, I just wanted to let you know that you are absolutely awesome.

I agree with @billbutler, it's a good idea.

My first ever Steem post was about this very problem, about a year and a half ago, still with not much progression on the issue. While my opinions on the matter have changed slightly - some of the solutions back then might still be applicable and useful for Steem today.

At this point I really think we need to separate the category from the tags in the UI, and only allow users a single choice when choosing what a category to place a post within (FYI - category is just the first tag right now). Any off topic posts should be downvoted for "misusage of tags". This is basically what chainBB.com does, using the "first tag mentality" and automatically filling in the first tag for users as they choose what forum to post within.

Then the UI needs to be changed to ONLY show posts that use that category when searching by content type. This will silo each post within one tag and one tag only, forcing users to choose where and how their content is discovered.

5 tags and being visible in all of them is a nightmare.

I'll admit - the UI I've been building isn't as fleshed out as Steemit in some regards, but it's far more organized and it's all I've used for months now. I'm probably missing out on some posts simply because the content discover within chainBB hasn't been expanded upon (since you know, I'm one person). But out of all the other solutions I've explored so far - it remains the best.

I think there should be 3 tags rather than 5. people are misusing this opportunity. I think there should be 3 tags. then people will use it with ed respect and also use related tags with the article.

can I crowdsource people's ideas and brains to find innovative solutions to problems?

YES. In fact that is what I do, when I have a big problem

If it is a simple question, I blast to thousands. But if the problem is tough I blast to hundred thousands.

Let me understand what problem you are attacking and I will attempt to give my sand grain.

I am an INTJ Engineer who likes tough problems because them causes my mind to keep alive and myself to learn a lot.

Having said this, let see if I can understand what you are attempting to solve. No matter if it is not my field, still I have brain to burn on any kind of problem if it of interest. And I am interested in your relationship, hence I will burn up some neurons.

·
LABEL POSTS Comments Payouts
photography 72,672 63,945 3,760,629.743 SBD
life 110,322 54,630 7,061,350.064 SBD
travel 24,669 26,897 2,140,855.154 SBD

This Data is what People look for making decision about tagging. They don´t care about content correlation, but money

What I see here is the Classical problems of System Intended use vs People real use.

There is no way to tell people what to label things. There are about 16 types of mind and all of them work differently. I even myself I´am image oriented, but analytical.

I don´t see any way a system design will create a solution. I have 17 years telling people to label correctly their CV and so far they have given a dam to my recommendation. They even do not care about it.

The way I see to solve the problem is to create a TAG called #high-quality-photos and run a campain telling 100% of Steemit User that anyone tagging crap in that TAG will be FLAG, and you have to convince the TOP Quality Photo Steemit Content Producer to star flagging when the see crap. On average the flagging will make crap invisible.

But the main problem is going to be that a lot of people will not be able to distinguish between top quality photo vs photos they like, since not everyone is into top photo equipment.

Another weighting action to flagging, would be for you convincing TOP Photo Content Producers to UPVOTE the Photos with high quality on the #high-quality-photos tag

This 2 simple actions: Flagging and Uvpoting, used heavily over the new TAG will solve the issue

Now, OLD Post cannot be re-tagged, hence you need to lunch a campaign telling TOP Quality Photo Content Producers to start using the label #high-quality-photos so as to make it apperar in the list of https://steemit.com/tags

In other words, my solution is statistically based, using flags & upovtes and letting the Gaussian Distribution take over.

A New Tag is borned, driven by heavy use of Upvotes & Flags, governed by Gauss Law of large numbers.

I think you can choose #Picturesque.

I am new. I mean really new, so you can probably just skip this from here. I don't have an answer to the primary problem, because I just don't have my head wrapped around it.

But I can see the problem with the tagging system in general. So long as there are people here on Steemit that are desperately chasing pennies (I get that. There are people in places where a dollar a day is a significant fraction of their livelihood) they are going to use the popular tags. It's pretty easy to find posts that use the first 5 tags from the trending tab.

What to do for those of us that wish to follow certain tags and lines of thought or art? I do not know. Maybe a curation value? A factor that is tied to the number of times you have commented/upvoted/resteemed a particular tag?

I do know that I have learned a lot from this post and the comments on it. As a noobie I REALLY appreciate the accumulated wisdom expressed here.
Thank you for it!

an upvote at 100% from me is almost worth $1000 US.

This is a really good incentive and worth more than any prize you give to someone.

My Idea
I think you should create a unique tag that spans around life, travel and photography. This tag should be used only by those who post what the tag really stand for. With that people will be cautioned not to post something not related to it.

The tag should have a specific quality ratio attached to it. Any post not having the desired quality should not be posted uaing the tag. This will help you get quality content for the tag.

Thanks

There are some good ideas here. Right now our little tribe is just using our own tag, #deepshit to find each others work quickly, given the current situationI think this is the most effective way to use tags. If it becomes massively popular we might have to change to another tag. Tag gentrification :-O

I think noone should not discriminate against anyone or place low quality photos, maybe that person does not have resources for to buy an iphone or a good digital camera and at that magic moment only had a cheap camera or phone at your fingertips. I think is to separate the idea of the category of photos, for photographers and enthusiasts should be placed PHOTOGRAPHY, but if your article takes even a photo and want to know that within your post there is one should be place a PICTURE tag, that could separate those of professional origin from amateur.

Congratulations @cryptoctopus!
Your post was mentioned in the hit parade in the following category:

  • Comments - Ranked 8 with 182 comments

I agree that the photography tag is full of low quality photos but I'm not sure there is a open, democratic and decentralized way to really deal with that. But I think a solution that can work well are more specific photography tags like #portraitphotography, #macrophotogrpahy and so on.

One thing that is really clogging up #photography are all the colorchallenge posts. They are nice, but many of them are just cellphone snaps that are mediocre at best.

One interface solution that could make tags much more flexible might be the ability to look at feeds or trending pages for a combination of tags including negative ones. So you could view #photography minus #colorchallenge plus #macro so you really get a feed of content that is what you are looking for.

I am relatively new (a couple of days) and could not read all comments. They are to many by now. But isn't steepshot exactly that? Is there a problem with steepshot?

Is your question about how to filter out unprofessional photos in posts using #photography tag in the condenser interface serving steemit.com or in another interface / website connected to the Steem blockchain? I think the second option offers more possibilities. I guess it's possible to develop a custom set of parameters combining text analysis (say, search post content for camera names that are often mentioned in the posts of professional photographers, or the keywords related to professional / amateur photography) and image analysis (can be done once and kept in the website's db). I am using a similar approach to filter out low quality posts on steemfilter.

Funny. I was mentioning this in the PAL discord. Being pretty new, I've found finding the awesome photos pretty difficult between the gunk.

Folksonomies have been a mess since flickr introduced them ages ago - and i'm not sure they ever found a real solution.

Obviously using curators would solve some of the problem - but that not entirely sustainable.

One idea I had was the ability to increase the visibility of individual accounts by attaching a rating from other photo platforms. For example - I have 24000 followers on instagram. In theory, my photos should be ok - and might help to weed out crappier accounts. Flickr could also be used...etc. etc. Of course - technically I have no idea how to make this possible. But it might help.

photography tag is totally bs now. .i think we should think go for a unique tag for example if you are into toys your tag would be toyphotography and if you into travel photography then the tag would be travelphotography

Personly I have no problems with the tags, but maybe it would be handy if there were tags with owner name within?

The word #photoshoot is usally used to indicate a photo session by a professional. The problem is, it would start at zero and there are no controls available to stop people using it for 'ohmygod' #snapshots

I've already spent a few hours today telling off newbies for using the wrong tags and explained to them why it will cost them. The problem is, so many of them cannot understand English that I doubt I'm able to get through to them.

The more complex answers that need coding etc., I am not qualified to discuss. I'm just glad you are trying to find a solution.

I do not think a solution will be needed if things work out here. As more and more people join the quality level of posts will only get higher because shitty content will be completely ignored because of the sheer amount of content, and at some point those photo spammers will have to stop because there will be ZERO financial reward, we are still in the lottery stage I think where you find a high social rating and a post at 30 minutes and immediatly upvote regardless of content.

The whales are in control now, the next stage will be celebrities and brands maybe?
It will be interesting to see what happens.

Currently a short term fix could be as simple as a new tag "photopro" to steer professional photography away from general photography.

The more the masses come to steemit the worse this issue will get and I think it needs to be dealt with in a way to help all tags as the issue arises.

What I love the most about Steemit is it's still new enough to find quality quickly enough....like Google Search was until it's bot's found all the random masses fluff and buried good content to sell add's.

Good luck with your goal, this is one of the best idea's I have seen since being here.

I've only been on here a couple of weeks, but I've already realised that popular tags, like photography seem to be a catch all for poor content. Sometimes the pictures are stunning, but it's unclear, whether they are the authors original work. This is also true for lots of other tags too. Between that and prolific resteeming of anything and everything, it's difficult to find good content worth reading and commenting upon. It also means that new Steemians, who are putting effort into their content get lost in all the clutter.

I think that when first joining, many users, myself included, expect it to be like other social media sites, and behave accordingly. It doesn't take long to work out that those Facebook habits need to be broken, or at least it shouldn't.

I'm sure many people are motivated by money, but to be honest, rather than being inundated with requests for votes and resteems, I'd far rather earn rewards through curation. Some sort of tag for original work or author recognition, that is moderated to allow only quality content, would be helpful and allow new users an opportunity for their work to be actually seen.

Expanding on that theme, tags for particular subjects with original in front of it (ie. originalphotography), might help, with a moderator, to ensure good content. I'm sure plenty of people would volunteer (I would).

Just an idea. Thanks for the post, it definitely got me thinking.

I think first thing to do is give awareness about the tag photography, if when this tag be use. Especially newbie here in steemit don't know what tag will be use everytime they post. They just see what others put in their tag and copy it.

I'm thinking of a pop-up window that contains info on how tags must be properly use every time we will do some post. If thats possible :)