Do we forget about those who buy STEEM in the market? we want to kill small and large investors with the flag war spreading like a wind on Steemit now.

2개월 전

I came to Steemit July 2016 and bought my first 16000 Steem
because I saw this as an incredibly good project to invest in Steemit.
Since then I have invested a lot of money
in buying Steem and building my SteemPower
My inventory today is at 125962 Steempower

Here's what I've earned since July 2016 that you can check out for yourself
https://steemworld.org/@xpilar

Rewards All Time
Curation SP 8,169.84
Author SP 21,522.19

I have at that time when my inventory was approx. 25000 SP made only one powerdown and after that I have always run PowerUp. During that time I have helped support many minnows in the community and previously made competitions with good prizes to the winners in SBD and STEEM.

I also support @ art-venture "Art-Venture Magazine" and SPUD,
which I also sponsor for both

Now I feel that my heart for the platform is about to split


heart-1952347_1920 1A.png
search pixabay.com


I have helped several investors spend larger amounts on the market and invested in Steem. They invested because I told them the concept of supporting others on the platform they could also make some profit from it themselves. After HF21 I told them that it was possible to earn more now (50/50%) by voting on even more. They liked the feedback and were on their way to invest more in steem from the market.

But they have read my post

A major flag downvote war is spreading on Steemit

The questions that came from investors were:
Flagg should be there to stop Spam / plagiarism and stop scams
I answered yes to that, but now it is also used to curb payments on posts even though they have quality, but they earn too much get a massive downvote. I was also asked if this happened to me and yes I replied it has happened and with several of my friends at Steemit.

This is very negative for other investors who buy steem in the market and invest them in SteemPower to give others their support. Remember that as long as there are buyers it is possible to sell. It is small and large investors who keep it all going. Now I am afraid that those who give massive downvote can damage the platform in the long run, but they themselves state that it is for the good of the community on this platform.


There is a double moral here:
Many of those who use downvote have large accounts and poll others who they like with good voting power. Whether those posts make $ 40 or more doesn't seem to matter to the rewards pool they are talking about. Clearly, priority will be different



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Sort Order:  trending

somehow investors and newcomers are forgotten here

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Hi @kingscrown

right, therefore, this must come to light

This post has been included in the 201st edition of The Steem News - a compilation of the key news stories on the Steem blockchain.

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I'm glad you do, thank you for that @pennsif

Hope more can see what I want to shed light on what is happening here now

I actually went through a few of your post to check whether you are getting flagged and I may have found none on those posts.

I also clicked on the highlighted post you included up there and read, sorry I haven't really checked on that, I guess I got conditioned that most of your posts are purposed to challenge the creativity of the community to create stories out of your images.

If you are getting flagged I'm sorry to hear that. It's good that you have asked those people who are flagging you (only the ones flagging you pls) why. They may or may not answer though.

Am not a fan of that flag, it kind'a have that "whip that slave" appeal. Unfortunately, everything is allowed here and it seems that the ones using the flags are either hitting what they call a "circle" or balancing the rewards. I wonder why the rewards need to be balanced? Is the reward pool almost empty? Do we have a standard of how much a reward one may have? If we do now, since when?

For as long as I remember, when I first came here I've been told by the person who invited me and the many others who were already here that it's up to people whether they would cast an up on your vote or not and since it's up to the voters how much of a %age of a vote they want to cast on your post, I thought it was alright to get as much as you can perhaps, many people are happy with you or your post or you so they decided to cast more on you. I don't think it's your fault that you earned as much up as you do. After all, you can only cast as much as you want for yourself, the only reason your post would earn much is because some casted their votes for you - perhaps not necessarily your post and most probably it's because you reciprocate while others act with some entitlement mentality - going around with attitudes that kind'a exude that "my post is so dern great I deserve to get to trending" (rolling eyes).

If we are to want to appeal to the masses then perhaps we should live and let live. Too much flagging is going to (surely) kill the system. It would even scare any newbie to join, nowadays. That flag has been there three years ago and was heavily used but it was used to combat abuse. It wasn't used to lower any author's rewards. This has a very negative appeal to it and a screaming negativity on its purpose alone, Odd that it has that function nowadays but I also question the amount of rewards an author may have. Are we allowed a certain amount per day now? I don't remember reading anything like that but I haven't been around much so I may have missed it. Since when did we have a standard of that?

I understand that it would pain an investor getting flagged whilst some like I did earned our SPs from curating and posting and it's alright (am being flagged, too but they seem to be weird accounts probably just tripping or so bored of their lives - idk) ..if those who did not even buy a single cent of Steem are allowed to earn that, why aren't the investors?

Just keep going, remember, this, too, shall pass ;).

Hang on in there! Sending you the warmest cyber hugs!

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The reward pool is limited and shared between all users. When someone assigns a reward to himself or his friends, that part isn't available for others. There needs to be a balancing to be able to really reward the best content instead of the biggest wallets.
Downvotes have been a part of steem from the beginning mainly to achieve that balance, it's the reason that's given for them in the whitepaper. They have been mainly used for serious abuse like plagiarism or spamming because they cost something for the one giving them, so there were only a few people willing to do this in the most serious cases. That's why we got a free budget now - to have them be used for their original purpose, the balancing and to get closer to the goal of giving higher rewards to better content.

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hi @pharesim, thanks for expanding on that, that clarifies it all. I did not know that the original purpose of flagging was actually to balance the reward.

I actually read your reply earlier but I sat on it to let it sink in and try to understand and see things this way for obviously - I must be missing something or not seeing things the way others do and clearly, for I don't really know many things. It's not an excuse it's purely ignorance (shys).

I understand the good intent you mentioned and I now understand more than before. Obviously, I've also been sucked in to that circle and since there were only a few of those, personally speaking, I thought I should be grateful specially to those who do not just cast their votes on my posts but read and leave comments on them. For that same reason, I felt obliged and that it is but righteous to return the ups I got (but of course, again this is my personal view on things plus I really am not a fan of making someone feel bad no matter how annoying they could be), unconscious of the fact that you just mentioned that I was actually also ensuring rewards for myself this way (yes, I took a peek on this comment thread haha!).

Having written that and having seen the consistency that some of those who can be considered patrons(whom some of the people here tagged as members of a circle) to my posts which is seemingly sucked into that "circle jerking" and still some of them are really curating and even constantly helping newbies, too, Imho, it's also possible that they have this mentality but I do have the benefit of the doubt that some may be already committing abuse whether consciously or unconsciously. Whether they are indeed abusing the system or not, I think they're old enough to be responsible for themselves.

Understanding that the flag is used to balance rewards to ensure that others get them, too, more so - to enable great contents to get to trending I found myself asking a few questions and I hope you don't mind if I ask away.

1> Since some are already regulating the said "circle jerks" why don't we just put it out blatantly that circle jerking is not allowed? ( although this would sound so imposing) Perhaps, then it would be clear that it's not allowed otherwise - it is allowed and if it's allowed then it's inevitable for others to see and find that we're having a double standard on things when they're getting heavily flagged cause some flags seem to just show that they don't really like the post but other than that it has no effect on the rewards - that one is quite easy to accept.

2> If we want to balance the reward this way to get the great contents to trending, is it also possible to just cast an up to those "considerably great contents" than spend one's voting power on flagging? ... although, I admit that no matter how I think about it, I guess, it may sound that I still don't get this -

How can a flag give the reward it took from the post it flagged to a considerably great post? How does that work? Does the reward go back to the reward pool?

I really can't imagine because I really don't know how it works. I have to admit that I didn't read much on this (shy).

If it does go back to the reward pool, how is it then ensured that it would be given to a considerably great posts?

Is it really inevitable to use the flag to get to do this and would flagging really help make us attractive to the masses? Is it not possible to solve things purely positively - without using the flag. Can't we just cast our votes to those who really make great contents? After all, it's one of the goals behind it.

Imho that flag really has a negative appeal on it, the name alone, more so if it takes out rewards( therefore the drama and the vendetta plague). Haven't we used the flag a long time ago? Did it really work? Afaik, the circle jerks existed from the start, it's one cancer in the society even IRL and some people must have seen that and mimicked what they're doing. If it's not working would it ever? Is it really mending things or actually causing a bigger damage?

I just wonder if it so happens that the considerably great contents really get to trending then perhaps the circle jerks would then be more exposed/isolated, surely, conniving or not some of those also have morals and shame they would stop at least if they have a conscience and follow by example - curate and cast their votes on considerably great posts.

3> Lastly, what defines a considerably great post? Are we sticking to - "it gives value"?

If the very goal was to make the considerably great post get to trending from the start - why were bid bots allowed - specially those that don't cast ups like OCD does - so far I really like how OCD casts its vote.

If I may say this - what I saw worked till apparently it was said to have been abused was "the ned votes" back then there was a list of authors who got ned's up till it was said to have been abused. That time, I remember that it motivated the recipients to really fashion interesting and value filled posts. I also saw that it actually birthed to many more recipients and stopped when it was abused by idkwho. Imho that one really worked and had a positive approached unfortunately, I don't know exactly what went wrong whether it was misused by some people? Perhaps, the tendency to abuse things really should be watched so it won't spoil the good things still existing here.

Having mentioned it, I also think that if we all support only what seem to be great posts - specially that it seems that they should be perfectly written - grammar and spelling wise aside from having value - Imho, it would create another imbalance on the system - it would made it look like mediocre (if I may use that) posts could possibly just be ignored (plus I abhor the idea of boosting narcissism to some who can really pull off a great post but this one is just my personal taste).

It seemed that I already wrote you a book and am beginning to feel like am blabbing but if I don't ask I would never get a better understanding so thanks in advance!

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Happy to have set off an extensive thinking process. I'll gladly try to answer those questions as good as I can.

  1. who should say that? It is up to the community to enforce behaviour they want to see. If the majority doesn't care it will effectively be allowed. So we first have to work on creating the consciousness that it's bad for the growth of the platform.

  2. yes, it goes back to the pool and is distributed between all other posts. The greatest content only comes up when all the miserable stuff is pushed down.

  3. that's very subjective. Something that draws eyes from the outside, makes people feel like they want to come back and see more of that, and makes good creators feel like this is a platform for the likes of them.

I wrote a quite long post on the topic today, it you're interested in more food for your thoughts.

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thank you !
hmmm.. that's all I could say for now hahah
I think I have to sit and think again hahaha

Will definitely take a look at it!

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Hi @englishtchrivy
After all, you and I have seen previous downvote wars between users here that largely hurt themselves.

But after HF21 it is used by many users here, for Steem.Inc. has provided 2 free downvote per day. So now everyone has the right to decide for themselves whether to give a downvote even if the post is of good quality, but believes that the merit is too large so it can go back to the rewards pool.

If you get an upvote from a bidbot now that you haven't paid for yourself, others may vote your post down. The same thing can happen when others, me or, for example, slowwalker give you a good upvote on your post will actually all be penalized for being downvote

Yes, I get the downvote, the largest from a single person was over $ 7.


Today came this downvote

Your post "Somewhere Close to The German Alps"received many red flags / downvote. Fortunately, they didn't have enough power to tune you down to ruin your reward. But after all, there were 11 red flags that want to hurt you, it may be that I or others are giving you an upvote. For me, this is totally sick when there are 11 red flags on you on your post.

Imagine small accounts that get massive red flags from other small accounts.
This does not look good for our upcoming social platform

But those who give downvote and big downvoter now, don't seem to think that they give good upvotes to people they like and earn a lot on one post THIS IS DOUBLE MORAL

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I understand where you're coming from. I agree that it woud indeed create much damage to smaller innocent account. I'm baffled that smooth flagged you a worth of $7 but he must have his reasons. You may ask him why, you know, he would probably give you a why if he sees your question - course, he won't if he wont but having the impression I have of smooth he'd probably do.

As for my flags, I can't tell whether those are haters' flags or they just don't like my post. I haven't bumped into them till that posts so they may just be dislikers and I don't mind that because I understand that my posts is not for everyone as I also have my own preferrences and reasons on casting ups plus would I only accept upvotes but I would probably also feel bad if I know that I put my heart out on my posts, polished it yada, yada, yada exerted much effort on it and then it got heavily flagged after all am human, too but what I can't control - I let go most of the time otherwise it would just consume me and make me react negatively on whoever flagged my post and as much as possible I don't really want to take things personally here because it's just the net. Though I really take kindness seriously - that is at least worth thinking it's real and really, some extend offline, this is just a friendly advice, pls watch out there are those who can be very manipulative and pretend to be kind, I have encountered a few and there are more authentic kindness I have bumped into here so I'd rather focus on that.

Once, I tried tracking a patron flagger who seem to stopped visiting me nowadays but in the end, I gave up on it because what's the point - the flagger is even anonymous and hiding in his account name - which I find very cowardly and backstabbing, I do appreciate those who flag and explain why on earth they did that but then only if they're not arrogant! I've seen a few arrogant newbies whom I find also very imposing, obstinate and self - righteous am not a fan of that. As for revenge flagging I find it a waste of energy and it would only encourage the continuing flag some also get tired of flagging you specially if you just give them a cold shoulder but then it's just me and my case is different from yours.

I understand and would also find it a double standard to downvote a certain post and cast a post one favors and earn much curation rewards on that - indeed, if I would look at it your way - it does look like that although I question whether the "possible curation rewards" really have manifested after the last fork! I did curate more often than not when I couldn't post before the autumn break and I wonder whether I did earn more than just posting.

I also think that if they consistently upvote the same authors they would eventually find themself sucked in what is called circle jerking - although unconsciously and not in a conniving way - or maybe even in a conniving way. It's hard to tell and judge.

I am not a fan of the flag and still am not but I find it important to also try to look at things the way others do because they may know something I don't. I just wish we could just find a different approach to combat the abuse - including circle jerking if it does harm the system and if we do - may it be positive and amiable after all people really tend to not forget how you make them feel, imho, it's very important to not hurt anyone's feelings and some could really be sensitive here. In my experience here, it's sad to loose a reader or a supporter more so - offend them. This is the net and yet, it has the same IRL social issues.

If there's one thing I learned after reading the comment thread on this - it's really hard to see and understand things the way others see and understand thems and in my opinion - it's like watching a double tipped pentelpen scream about the points they're trying to make, at each other, finding them both having a point and finding it hard to make those points meet elsewhere. For that same reason, I'd stick to live and let live and hope that somehow they find a way to listen to each other after all, there maybe something both of them and me included and the many others who read this comment thread, they could find as the really effective solution/s. As of now - it's hard to tell.

As for some who are proven to have abused the system, I won't necessarily have to no longer cast my upvote on them nor have a prejudice against those people and no one has the right to question whom I cast my upvotes - that part, I can control and it's up to me and I intend to use it wisely - according to my own definition of it and people will just have to respect that as I do so with the way they cast their ups and downs.

Chereo! Enjoy autumn!

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thank you @englishtchrivy for sharing your thoughts with me on this

I understand what they say when they explain this to me,
but unfortunately there are also those who use downvote here now with a completely different agenda.

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When I logged out I earlier, I was still wondering why you got heavily flagged, you don't strike me as a person who'd abuse the system, in fact, I've watched you helped and lifted the many here, even those whose posts looked like they didn't exert much effort on making. It made me wonder whether you earned more than 50 or 100 on that post that got heavily flagged. If that's the case and it just so happen that I looked at the trending earlier and that time I saw low quality posts and they don't seem to be heavily flagged. I understand that the flag seems necessary now since there are huge accounts that seem to be proving consistently greedy and hurting the system but I still think people are more important that just saving the system. What good would a system be if there'd be no longer a many for it to serve.

I think I can't blame the many for posting low quality posts after the .. hf20 or probably even before that, I don't remember which fork has encouraged the abuse of the system anymore but I remember posts got shorter that time and the many lost their appetite to write long and valuable ones having seen that pattern of abuse. I hope the flagging on your posts stops specially if it's very unreasonable and if it already did cheers to that! Imho, you don't deserve that specially if you aren't guilty of abusing the system. If it hasn't I just hope that whoever flags your post explains why they flagged your posts and why that heavy a flagging?

Take care and don't let this get into you - be kind to your heart. I can't express how much I feel sorry for you but I also don't think it would do much to console your heaving heart. I've had such a phase back then and I was no longer a newbie, I had no choice but to toughen up and stay open to what's going on, I've witness the system changed so many times, things eventually stopped in the end, not entirely but surely - like everything they'd come to pass. I send wishes to the universe to help you find the strenght to endure this and carry on.

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Hi @englishtchrivy

Thank you for your warm and kind words about me.
After reading your comment I just had to look at the stars in the night sky and I felt that energy coming, thank you

I get downvote because they think I give too much upvote to some people like @slowwalker who get good upvote

If they had had dirty posts they would not have received my vote.

I've been following @slowwalker for a long time and like his posts. Just as I like your posts and give you upvote.

So it has become so now that they are trying to decide on who I give my upvotes to and the reason is that I get the upvotes back

I got an answer from @smooth here is the link
https://steemit.com/downvote/@xpilar/re-pz8x1i

here is the post where he gave me a powerful downvote
https://steemit.com/art/@xpilar/4tpzq5-the-image-is-made-of-own-imagination-and-thoughts

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You have to differ between the small downvotes which aren't worth anything and just used for trolling, and the bigger ones used to balance rewards.
The former don't do anything except giving a small sting to the ego, and I see them as a part of normalizing them, so they're not even bad. There's dislikes on youtube, do those keep off content creators?

The big ones are used to stop people from different forms of self voting. Like bid bots, trading is a form of this too. If you upvote others just to get their vote, it's nothing but a covered up self vote. Slowwalker does this and nothing else, so people exchanging votes with him get targeted.

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Hi @pharesim
Of course you want to defend what is happening because it has become part of your job now that you have worked hard to promote the downvote.

I'm worried you must also see everything that happens next to what you explain. There are users who have no idea why the red flags come from, do not help if it is from large or small accounts. It gets completely wrong when they have done nothing wrong.

They earn a little money on their post and are lucky that a bidbot has given them upvote without paying that bidbot. Later, there is a downvote due to the fact that they got a vote from bidbot and lost their reward. You can't believe I shouldn't be worried

You have to understand that red flags are also seen as punishments when they have done no wrong, so I want to highlight that someone has a different agenda than what is meant by downvote and flagging

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Do people feel punished for dislikes on youtube, and stop creating videos because of them? Stop being overdramatic.

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Hi again @pharesim

you for collecting it as you please
but you did not comment bidbot

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I wrote a post going into details. People will get used to downvotes being as normal as upvotes. It's difficult to switch the mindset about them after being flags for so long, but that was a mistake that is being corrected. Takes time.

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thanks @pharesim,
it was nice to hear that it will be fixed 👍

Have you read the whitepaper? Downvotes have always been thought as a tool to go against self and group voting behaviour. It's a basic part of the concept of rewarding the best content, not the people with the biggest wallets.

Don't worry about the investors. I know quite a few who buy exactly because they finally have a way to do something against the self rewarding which has become a habit in the last years. If we can turn this ship around and start to care about content instead of people, steem will have a chance to grow again.

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Hi @pharesim

yes, I read it when I joined in July 2016
after that, I relate to Steemit FAQ

It's nice to hear that there are investors buying now

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Don't worry about the investors.....

Yep!

Hi @xpilar, thank you for this post and for opening the eyes of an usual user showing how the investors who were in the beginning came to their SP. For many maybe it feels like that people did posts without anything paid in, but it is a truth many of you, guys who paid into the system to build it up and also supporting the little accounts in order to have a life in it like in aquarium feeding little fishes to help them to grow.

With new system of Downvotes everyone if a "police" and will be punishing anyone who they think do not deserve, but we are all different if one person does not like something then the others may like it.

There are few Big acocunt holder who randomly going around and downvoting those whose payout will be above 10, I even am not sure if those guys looking through the blogs and reading them, most likely not. They just do not care.

They just want to show that they "policing " today you and tomorrow me, but who will check the "police". Many people now give their votes to trials for downvoting as I heard because they "trust" those persons, but in real life in police made something wrong there is dep-t of internal affairs who checking if that was right or wrong. Here in Steemit there is nothing and even those guys do not bother to leave an explanation for their action.

There are many factors that contribute into low Steemit activities like low Steem price, downvote war of even Big accounts without explanation, that can make the smaller users as well as new users scared and I do not think new people will decide to join Steemit.

From your point of you, you have done so much for many users and communities, awarding the efforts of people to create the stories and see that support that sometimes more than their own posts, without your support of @Art-venture Magazine we probably have not gone so far. I am glad you did this post as not many know what is behind the scene and on and off we should remind them.

Wishing you nice Sunday

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Thank you for your feedback @stef1

Unfortunately, some of the police officers here have a different agenda and it is decided without a trial in the back room for closed doors.

And there are only a few of those who answer me about what's going on

I have gotten in the way of those with my statements and it is clear that they do not like it.
I want to continue to shed light on what is happening for the way it is now I am afraid they are killing investors and users

Hi @xpilar

I'm impressed with your faith in Steem blockchain. You're surely one of the largest and most human stakeholder I've met here so far and I really am glad that we had a chance to get to know each other.

I also share similar worries about future of both: Steemit platform and steem blockchain.

Yours
Piotr

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Thank you @crypto.piotr for your warm and kind words about me

When I see that there is revenge and other problems on this platform, I want it to be highlighted.
I still have great faith in our community on this platform

Hello @xpilar, I have known you about 4 months ago. and at that time I was very amazed at you. because you give a lot of support to other people. you are very much doing good.

I also agree with your thoughts. downvotes should not be given in order to limit payments. I think this is like seizing the property of others who have painstakingly made quality posts.

I see already 3 days you did not make the latest posts. I beg your heart not to break with this platform. I do not want you to stop from here. Very rarely there are people like you here. I dare say, we as small fish have the spirit here because of your influence. however, if you stop, I'm sure, many small fish that are here will lose their spirits.

I beg you not to stop here. we love you here.

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Thank you @aulia1993 for your warm and kind words about me

I'll be posting soon again.

My time now has been very responsive to many people here and also to other posts about what I have illustrated.
hehe, it also takes time to read so many posts others are writing about this on Steemit

I agree with you.
Downvotes are not the solution.

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Thanks for your feedback @oldtimer

and especially not when used as a revenge

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Long time no see.
Where have you been ?
I missed you.

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I'm still here but I don't want to participate in this shit show.
I still read your posts and like your photos. It's very sad that after your investment and hard work you can't reward even your own mother anymore.
Newsteem police live in delusion. They created new circlejerk groups and named them curation trails. For upvotes and downvotes.
It's beyond my understanding how they can't see and understand that they changed steem into a ghost town.
I don't want more steem if I can't have some fun.
Thanks for your response.
Appreciated.

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I do not want to fight against the downvotes.
In my experience, the rewards I receive are strongly influenced by the amount of SP I have.
So I am powering down my SP, then I could diminish my rewards in my guess.
In my opinion, there must be the limitation of having SP amount in Steemit in the current circumstances.

So Steem (per its FAQ) thinks downvotes can be utilized to help reallocate rewards to be more beneficial to the community??Really?! Who gets to decide what is beneficial for the Steem community? The whales, mob rule, the Illuminatti? Isn't that very Communistic of them comrades! Who gets to decide what is beneficial for the Steem community? Steem isn't powered by unicorn farts and fairy dust, it's powered by people willing to invest funds (i.e. real $$$) into the platform most likely because they believe it is a good concept (be realistic people, there are other more profitable blockchain opportunities out there for investors). Use downvotes(or flags, bitch slaps, ass kicks or whatever the fuck you want to term them) to curb abuse (spam, plagerism, people being assholes) and let the "community" grow and prosper instead of flaming each other. Otherwise it will stagnate. But at least the downvote police/commissars will get their jollies. in the end if you subsidize something, you get more of it and that is certainly true with the down vote - just my Sunday morning rant

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hi @ultratrain

It was a clear speech you have here

Steemit FAQ says

What are the valid reasons for downvoting?
Users are allowed to downvote for any reason that they want. There are many users in the community who recommend only using the downvote on posts that are abusive. It is up to you if you want to follow this etiquette.

^

Does a downvote mean that I did something wrong?
Just because you received a downvote does not mean that you did something wrong. The downvoting person may have just been voting to reallocate the rewards in a way that they felt was more beneficial to the other active posts in the platform. Often users will leave a comment explaining why they downvoted, but sometimes they might not. If they left a reason, it is up to you to determine if you did anything wrong, and if there is anything you want to change.

But unfortunately there is also an abuse of downvote from those who have a different agenda

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The community as a whole decides, by balancing up- and downvotes. It's called swarm intelligence, and it's the basic principle steem was created on. Did you read the whitepaper where that is described? If you don't believe in what's laid out there, what's the concept you invested in?

Good post, I'm glad you pointed this out.
Sometimes I wonder why people fail to see
the relationship between cause and effect.

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Thank you @thoughts-in-time

It is for others have teamed up and have a different agenda
and they have a double morale in this game

100% according to all your words, hopefully what this many do today is not our end tomorrow.

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thank you @solangeh

yes, let's hope that those who have a different agenda don't ruin the platform too much

Since HF 21/22 there has been a major change, one of which is by providing a free downvote pool without reducing voting power. Good intentions to return rewards stolen by fraudulent posts turned out to be abused a lot. many downvotes create an era of downvote war for no apparent reason. I feel downvote without knowing what caused them to do it.
Moreover, if this downvote will affect investors who invest money in STeem, it will certainly damage the ecosystem. for that it is necessary to more clearly arrange related to downvote.
I hope that big account holders should wisely give downvotes. Don't be based on hatred or revenge. This will be a ghost and a nightmare for new Steemians. When they work hard to stay in Steem then get a downvote will certainly cause them to despair.
Give downvote as the last alternative after being warned in advance so that there are efforts to improve it.
Thank you @xpilar
Warm regard from Indonesia

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Many thanks for your feedback @rokhani

The way it is today with downvotes I am afraid it is giving out wrong signals and especially to investors

Dear @xpilar,

Your Voting CSI: 6.8 ( 4.11 % self, 265 upvotes, 87 accounts, last 7d )

An Orca whale like you should have a significantly higher CSI. #newsteem can only work if we all change our voting behavior and make it more balanced.

Best regards

@redpalestino

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Excellent point. A lot of people spin narratives to get their uninformed following to think a certain way, when a simple look at statistics on the blockchain tells an entirely different story. Even the whale and orca circle voters can't hide from the cold hard stats! I think part of the mission should be to make these stats more readily accessible and digestible for the less sophisticated user.

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Hi @redpalestino

You have a good point, thank you for letting me know

I agree with you my friend @xpilar

Everything you said is very clear and we see what is happening right now, not promotion service and less content.

Those downvoters just give a downvote because they see a high rewards but they don’t read the full content and check if the content is original.

I received 37 downvotes in just one of my publication in the past, original content.. After that I understood the important of my publications, if I continue receiving those negative votes in my next publications, maybe my account could be deeper with not visibility.

Nobody knows how to use downvote section and the majority don’t know why this section is for, You said something very important this section is available to stop abusers, plagiarism, spam .. but someone understands that this one is available to stop writers..

I like Steemit, I’m a small investor, I buy Steem to donate others who need it for food or for increase their SP. I bought the majority of my SP. Any cents I got it is Power Up..

Never give up my friend, we have to fight with all of challenges here and abusers called downvoters..!!

The best for you my friend, keep working amazingly well..!!

@tipu curate

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thank's for your feedback @edgarare1

Yes, we must work for a better society

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Yeah, we are doing our best right now..!!

Posted using Partiko iOS

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I went back a month in your history and didn't see you receiving a single downvote...when did that happen?

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Hello my friend @pharesim thanks a lot for your kind reply..!!

Well here is the link, https://steemit.com/dtube/@edgarare1/what-the-heck-is-steem-in-60-seconds.... you can check the content, in this publication I was trying to promote Steem one more time. The original autor is mentioned in the publication.

And I was wondering way those people downvoted this content, it was before starts the newsteem. The video has an amazing message for all of us..!!

Well my friend , past is the past.. Now we are in a new era..!!

Have an amazing day..!!

Posted using Partiko iOS

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The video has an amazing message for people outside of steem.
Reposting it here and rewarding yourself with bid bots for doing so doesn't do anything good to anyone.

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Yeah, my friend you are amazingly right..!!

And I took that message positively and stop using bots.

I understood that more engagement and feedback is much better than raise faster..!!

Have a great time and thanks a lot for reminding me it again..!!!

Posted using Partiko iOS

very interesting friend in 2016, this is a good example, it should be copied by many people, thank you @ xpilar for sharing our experiences. can I hire a delegation with you?

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thank you so much @muntaharaceh

how much steem are you thinking about leasing?

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it's up to best friend @xpilar to give me a sincere origin, I didn't force my friend, because I rented this so I could help others too. this is my email throw muntahar207@gmail

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yes thanks best friend @xpilar. I am with Steemit so I can help those who are difficult, hopefully I can help, social assistance with this Steemit company.

Flagg should be there to stop Spam / plagiarism and stop scams
I answered yes to that, but now it is also used to curb payments on posts even though they have quality, but they earn too much get a massive downvote. I was also asked if this happened to me and yes I replied it has happened and with several of my friends at Steemit.

FYI
Below extract from, CLIK HERE, Wondering how Steemit works, read STEEMIT FAQ?

What are the valid reasons for downvoting?

Users are allowed to downvote for any reason that they want. There are many users in the community who recommend only using the downvote on posts that are abusive. It is up to you if you want to follow this etiquette.

^

Does a downvote mean that I did something wrong?
Just because you received a downvote does not mean that you did something wrong. The downvoting person may have just been voting to reallocate the rewards in a way that they felt was more beneficial to the other active posts in the platform. Often users will leave a comment explaining why they downvoted, but sometimes they might not. If they left a reason, it is up to you to determine if you did anything wrong, and if there is anything you want to change.

i added high light to some text

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Hi @michealb

You and I are not completely disagreeing with everything.

But several users have a double morale here

Is the existence of down vote can make Steem prices decrease.

Posted using Partiko Android

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Hi @nurmalaalibasyah

Those who have the big downvote / flag in their power against others believe that what they do will save it

I've been against the free down votes the whole time.. if you give someone something for free they will find a way to abuse it

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it's true what you say about it, it happens @davedickeyyall

I am also agree with you...
But some peoples given downvote without reson but i don't know is that Revang or what?

Posted using Partiko Android

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Hi @nevlu123

When it is not commented on why the flag is given, it is only a guess for those who receive it.
Had they commented we would have learned from the mistake or what they mean

I knew that there would be malicious down voting with this free downvotes.

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yes @yaanivapeji,
unfortunately it happens

Don't worry, someone who is currently not getting downvoted will make another post telling people to accept the downvotes and it will all be fine. /s

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thanks for that information @whatsup

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I'm actually thinking about making one to explain why they are given, to link to when posts like this come up again and again. As acidyo did before.
Both of us surely receive more than most other people here ;)

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I'll bet I'm right up there as well.

I want to talk a little bit off the post. Steem project would have lost his trust I think so. 2 day ago poloneix announced delist steem coin. What do we do now?

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I was afraid it would come @anil566

If we lose confidence in several exchanges, it will destroy Steemit.
You exchange your funds to Bittrex.com

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Can you tell me @xpilar who is founder of steemit or steem project, I want to talk to them

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Hi @anil566

you won't reach them, but you can try @andrarchy

It is unfortunate this misuse of the tools of this platform friend @xpilar, thanks for contribute and communicate this unfortunate quotation

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Yes @wilmer1988, what is going on now must be highlighted

Pienso que en todo lo que hagamos debemos ser originles, autéticos,no debemos
fomentar la piratería, tenemos lo que nos corresponde, no hay efecto sin causa.
Cuando todo está en regla es así como se evidenciará si hay mala intención.

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Hi @brismar
I agree with your explanation, but the downvote tool is not used as intended by everyone

I've seen the spead of downvotes too.
This is case of be careful what you ask for, you may just get it.
When we get the power, many just choose to use it without thinking.

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Hi @ace108

When we get the power, many just choose to use it without thinking.

agree with you

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Sometimes, I blame it on the too fast pace world nowadays.

Greetings dear friend @xpilar.

There are two aspects here that made me reflect:

Powerdown. I have recently seen a couple of powerful accounts (+ 350K SP) that are currently in powerdown. These accounts gave me a lot of motivation, since seeing an investor placing this amount of resources on the blockchain showed great confidence in the project. Now I can only think that they plan to retire.

Downvotes. I believe that this great power that has been put in the hands of all users must carry a great responsibility for use. This is not happening like this.
We can find numerous accounts with a recent creation date, which are dedicated exclusively to downvotes.
Are flags necessary? Maybe yes. But its use must be related to a solid motive that supports it.
The downvote process should perhaps also have a statement of reasons, where its implementation should be justified.

Your friend, Juan.

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Thank's for your feedback @juanmolina

Are flags necessary? Maybe yes. But its use must be related to a solid motive that supports it.
The downvote process should perhaps also have a statement of reasons, where its implementation should be justified.

Well said, but not everyone thinks this way or behaves that way

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I believe that these actions are doing a lot of damage to our dear community. Hopefully a behavior change soon or we will be destined to do much more harm to ourselves.

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Thank you for your prompt reply dear @xpilar, you´re so kind.

Would you mind if I share with you some details about our nonprofit initiative based on STEEM Blockchain: "Project Hope" (@project.hope)?

Together with @crypto.piotr I've been working on it for few months already and recently we've launched our website. It's still kind of a "construction zone" :)

If you think so, could check it out: https://www.projecthope.pl/

You may find section "passive income" particularly interesting. Please, check it out and let me know what do you think. Your opinion would be a gold mine for me.

Your friend, Juan

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Yes @juanmolina, I know about this via @ crypto.piotr earlier
I want to check it out more

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hi @xpilar

I hope that your will find our passive income program worth your your time.

Obviously I don't think i need to stress out that your support would help us to grow.

Cheers, Piotr :)

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What a joy to know that you know Piotr!
He is a great person, very human by the way.

Then do not forget to visit and know Project Hope. Maybe we can count on your participation.

Greetings friend of mine.

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very human :) good one @juanmolina :)

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Downvotes by small accounts with no steempower are not worse than a dislike on youtube. There will always be some, nobody cares.

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Sure, you are right. But there are many accounts with great SP that are doing downvoting. This is a serious problem.

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Thanks for sharing.

I also believe that downvote is necessary, but as it is currently established it is not functional.

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Yes they are. Didn't you realize the huge change on trending?
The people complaining (including the one who wrote this post) are exactly the ones we need them for. It works well, the only thing that could be improved is that more people start using them.

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I promise you that I will meditate on your point of view.
The certainty with which you express yourself has made me doubt my initial thoughts.

I will have to put myself in another perspective.

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I just wrote a post going into more detail, if you need more food for thought ;)

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For example.
Why will this group of people have voted negatively on my post? What were their reasons? How did they organize to vote simultaneously if they are supposedly independent individuals? How does this benefit the platform?

As you can see. I have more questions than answers.

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Sorry, I can't tell you why, I don't see a reason why I would downvote that. I understand that hurts, as they have a bit of power behind them. Your post still has a not-too-bad reward though, so keep going! Don't think about it too much, this is the internet and some people are dorks. Maybe they thought it's overrewarded, maybe it was a mistake and they thought you would have bought votes (which you didn't, or curangel wouldn't have voted), maybe they counter upvotes of specific accounts (which can be for several reasons not connected to you or your post at all), but does it really matter? You don't ask for reasons for upvotes, do you?
Embrace the mindset that nothing is yours until the payout is done, it's a lot easier to accept that way.

It's not directly beneficial, but also not bad for the platform, because the rewards are given to other authors.

well said @xpilar. Although I'm not against the flagging of spammers and rubbish posts but it's totally unfair to use age flagging or downvote against the quality post. At one hand it will discourage quality creator on the other hand it will loose people interest. Moreover it will stop investor to invest here. It's time to take our differences aside for the betterment of this community.

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Many thanks for your feedback @kamchore
100% agree with you

100% agreed

Yes, absolutely I agree with your opinion, Sir.

i don't wanted to say this but after HF 21 things really seems fishy here not the same community we know on steemit its getting hard to survive here only few people running it

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Thank's for your feedback @blazing

you're absolutely right

I think it might be necessary to review the rules regarding downvote.

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Yes @elia34928, it is necessary for downvote to be used incorrectly

I think that Down votes may make the price of Steem to decrease.

Posted using Partiko Android

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Yes, I'm afraid investors are pulling out @golden.future

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Verry good post

Yes I am agree for you.

Posted using Partiko Android

Your experience inspired me greatly, sir.



Hey @xpilar, here is a little bit of BEER for you. Enjoy it!

@xpilar You are absolutely right.

!BEER
for you