Sad, but not yet defeated.

2개월 전

What happens now?

I'm not defeated, but I'm feeling pretty close. I've pulled all my delegations and when they are returned in 5 days, I will begin powering down for the first time EVER, since joining steemit in 2016.

This makes me incredibly sad. For those of you in my DM all night, yes, you're right. I've probably been one of the top pro-steem cheerleaders. But I don't believe in cheering blindly.

I've been taught to fight for what you believe in- and submit to authority you can trust to represent you, and I believe a lot of us are not being represented.

I am NOT a quitter, but there are times for compromise and there are times to cut ties. Which situation is this? It appears to be heading in the direction of the latter, and I'm preparing for that.

But there is always hope. Everyone keeps saying it's too late, but is it?

This is ultimately a human system, based on human decisions. It isn't too late until it's over.

From what I've heard, this hard fork was supposed to go forward WITHOUT this 50/50 proposal, and then it was added before it was too late. See? If it's not too late to add it at the last minute, it's not too late to take it back off.

Why the rush? Why so much?

@justineh has calculated that when all is said and done with this proposed hard fork, authors will lose 42% of their rewards: part in the new rewards dispersement (the 50/50 proposal) and part for supporting the SPS (worker proposal for the community).

I've already shown that the people voting on the 50/50 rewards system have the most to at least initially gain, and that is undeniable.

Undeniable.

It's pure math, folks. We can all say what we HOPE to happen in the future, but we KNOW that the beginning of this takes 33% of author rewards and puts it directly into curation rewards. While we are "waiting to see" what might happen.... the large accounts are getting larger.

The large accounts (orcas and whales) will have lost absolutely nothing. They will have actually GAINED SIGNIFICANTLY. It's a totally different story for the small and medium (plankton, minnows, and dolphins) accounts. At least initially, and once again, that is based on MATH, not HOPE.

Most content creators cannot afford to lose 33% of their author rewards, and the doubling of their curation rewards does not come close to making up for that huge loss. Think it doesn't affect you? You can figure it out yourself on steemworld.org/@username, or I can even do it for you if you want to see exactly what this means for you.

The small accounts will see their curation rewards double pennies, and the large accounts will see their rewards double from 4000 SP a month to 8000 SP a month and beyond!

This is a MASSIVE conflict of interest.

Something that financially benefits only the top accounts and top witnesses so greatly, and actually harms the small accounts should be tossed. How can the top witnesses not recognize this as a clear bias?

Honestly?

I have less of a problem with the drop in author rewards and more of a problem with WHERE the diverted money is going.

Do authors make too much money on their own work? Debatable.

But the solution proposed is...take it away and double the pay of the curators? What? Why?

If you want to cut the pay of authors, I could actually accept that proposal EASIER if the 33% cut went to funding the SPS (for the community).

Instead of 50/50,
50/25/25 makes more sense. At least there, authors could give up 33% of their salary to the community as a whole!

Arbitrarily doubling the salary of the curators needs a BIT more convincing than "well authors make too much."

Well... Why should curators make more? They are already making 25% on work that they did not create.

Curating (in the real world) is where we support things we enjoy. We go to the movies, we "curate" that movie by paying for a ticket. The payment back to us is the 2 hours of entertainment provided by the author. We don't get to stand outside and wait for our 25% of tickets sales.

We enjoy an author? We buy their book. We support their work because THEIR brain has entertained us. THAT is our payment. We don't get a check from the author after we've finished reading.

Here on Steemit, we reward curators with their enjoyment of our work AND a 25% payment out of authors' pay- as an ADDITIONAL thank you for supporting their work. Right, wrong, or indifferent, THAT is what we have all become accustomed to, and the way Steemit functions.

I love being a content creator. BUT I AM ALSO A CURATOR. I am speaking on behalf of BOTH. I currently curate TWICE as much as suggested, but I fully believe that the content creator is worth 75% of the rewards.

But Steemit thinks curators are due more? Ok. Why?

If this is a case of cutting the authors pay because authors make too much, then fine! Deal with that separately. Cut their pay and put it back into the community by funding the SPS!

But just because you want authors to make less, curators automatically get to make more??? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Not only that... But why such a drastic overhaul of a system?

You know there are a lot more numbers between 75/25 and 50/50.

70/30, anyone?

Why not TEST IT GENTLY before throwing the newbies to the wolves? Have we learned nothing from HF20? Yes, there were different things on the agenda for HF20, but you know what is the same?

Too much, too fast.

Winnowing out small accounts.

Preparing for a future that may never come because you're too busy fixing a hole in the wall while the house is burning down.

It's not too late.

Take the 50/50 part OUT of HF21 and make it a singular discussion instead of lumping it into an "all-or-nothing" deal where witnesses MUST vote Yes for all or No for all. I KNOW there are witnesses with reservations. But they are not getting the opportunity to reject PART of the hard fork. TAKE OUT 50/50 so they can speak their minds ON THIS ISSUE ALONE.

I have a feeling the money to be made for large accounts is too much of a temptation for the 50/50 to get tossed. After all, greed is part of the human condition.

But until the bitter end, there is always hope.

I really would love to continue this discussion with everyone who has been a part of it so far. I think this is THAT important - and for that reason, I'm about to tag everyone who has expressed their opinion in DM or on the last 2 posts. I don't really apologize. I'm inviting you to make your voice be heard.

@fionasfavourites, @zekepickleman, @bluefinstudios, @thekittygirl, @blockurator, @omra-sky, @zanoni, @greencross, @naltedtirt, @audreybits, @enginewitty, @saffisara, @eveningart, @snook, @whatsup, @guiltyparties, @hazem91, @darrenfj, @brisby, @elsiekjay, @imealien, @nickyhavey, @nathanmars, @chekohler, @penderis, @bengy, @josediccus, @thehive, @improv, @shadowspub, @notconvinced, @bossel, @jaynie, @johneyreacko, @dswigle, @bigtakosensei, @rebeccabe, @arcange, @derekrichardson, @wonderwop, @distantsignal, @clixmoney, @fredkese, @mariannewest, @dfinney, @ange.nkuru, @dkkarolien, @thekitchenfairy, @crimsonclad, @tcpolymath, @eonwarped, @jackmiller, @vibesforlife, @owasco, @felt.buzz, @josephsavage, @victorholyo, @crescendoofpeace, @senstless, @gduran, @themanwithnoname, @abitcoinskeptic, @mosunomotunde, @deeanndmathews, @chireerocks, @chris-the-batman, @sgt-dan, @jayna, @scarletreaper, @juliamulcahy, @jamerussell, @mcfarhat, @dutybound, @eturnerx

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How will I get those curation rewards if I don't vote for posts? Who benefits when a post is voted for?

Anyone here with SP, stands a chance to earn more, by supporting others. What did you authors do with all the SP you earned? How are you not able to offset some of the post loss by curating others?

By powering down, you're already saying you're not going to be one of these people who's here to help.

This is 100% organic.

Screenshot (592).png

You had your SP delegated away, so that means you haven't been able to support authors to your full potential, like so many others here. I've been curating manually for nearly three years. I get a raise. I get a raise for helping authors. More people getting a raise for helping authors means more folks might want to get out there and vote, instead of delegating away their SP, or selling votes. They don't vote TODAY. Authors took a huge hit since most of the SP became unavailable to be used to vote for posts.

I can post and I can curate. I lose some on posts, I'll gain some for curating. I get NOTHING if I panic and leave. Everyone else who I try to support gets NOTHING if I panic and leave.

What's doing more harm now? The hardfork, or this reaction to something that hasn't even happened yet.

Do you really want it to remain more profitable for people to be paid to look away? What good is that to a content producer? That's what's been happening for years! People are paid to look away. Try to give them a reason to look, and vote again, and HOLY SHIT lets run for the hills!

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As I said in the past 3 posts - I am already curating double what is suggested .... meaning I have to regularly stop upvoting posts - to regain my voting power.

so - i cannot upvote anyone... anymore than I am. (and neither can most people) (my curation rewards will be doubled from 9 to 18 - my author rewards were 375? pretty clear there.)

What did I do with the SP that I earned? Go look at my wallet. It's all there. from the beginning. oh! sorry - except all the contests I held to help newbies and have fun with people on the chain. silly me.

I won't repeat what I already said in the other 3 posts - I explain exactly why I stayed through some pretty stark times - watching projects that I loved and built and were SUCCESSFUL get dismantled by poor decisions by our leaders.

Sorry if I don't have the stamina to keep starting over when my sandcastle gets kicked down, but I don't. I can see when things are going to be on permanent repeat... Plus. why does anyone care if I'm here to help? The large accounts will now have double curation rewards - they'll have plenty of steem to help!

I would think that everyone here should be happy that the "sourpusses who can't stop complaining about author rewards" are leaving. Cuz that's what its all about , right? THAT'S why we're so upset, right? (pretty sure i stated exactly where i would be happy to see my author rewards go - and it was NOT in the pockets of whales, orcas, investors. but i'm whining. we're all just whining. )

sorry for being extra grouchy - lol I just read a post from someone who had needs to go see a proctologist about getting his head out of his arse.

there are lots of people who stayed and DID NOT sell when steem was up. we just stacked like good little Steemians and watched our value in our wallets slide into the gutter. Bet the investors didn't do that!!! But why should they? It's ok for them to want to protec THEIR money.

And everyone wants to talk about - "we wouldn't be here without the investors!"

point taken. i'm grateful for them. i just dont think we should hand them more money and thank them for the opportunity.

but does anyone acknowledge where we would be without content creators? How about everyone stop posting for a month and see what happens?

agh.. its pointless.

it really is.

hope everything works out! with me gone - just think - that's 375 more author rewards to spread around to the people remaining! if enough people leave - this place will be swimming in steem to be scooped up! right?

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So you're talking about being spread thin, which is something I've been yelling at the clouds about for years. I watched people stop supporting my work so they could sell votes, because there's more money in NOT supporting what I do. I lost far more potential income simply because there wasn't enough SP to go around. So now, there's an opportunity for content producers to have access to more potential incoming SP, and this makes you angry and sad? What do you want? Do you want to be spread thin and feel like you're carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders or do you want others to come in and help?

Why is there no mention of a content producer receiving a large orca or whale vote, which is something many rarely see now? How will they earn these curation rewards you're calling SELFISH, if they don't vote for a post? What happens to an authors post when they receive more high powered votes?

Sell this place to content consumers instead of producers, and watch it take off. When was the last time you got paid to be entertained?

So yeah, I just looked at your situation. About half of your SP is delegated away, and your voting power is 66%. Your own decisions led you to personally only be able to hook someone up with far less than half of your potential. Tell me again about how you don't think that's fair if an author can only receive half of what you think is their potential? Now let's look around. How many more "curators" out there are doing the exact same thing? Produce content, sit and wait for votes, as their own potential to help others is in someone else's hands? That's many of you. You want to earn more money? Make better decisions with the money you have. Everyone's waiting for that handout. It's those people! It's their job to vote for me! My SP is here to sell votes so people can shit post! I sell votes to them so they can boost their shit post far above my own post, as I sit here wondering why nobody looks at my post....OOHHH but I earned 1 STEEM today for doing nothing because I'm a smart investor!

LOL! Sorry, but damn.

I broke it down awhile back in this post. Exactly what this community will do to this community after this hardfork unless you all wise up and start taking some responsibility for your own actions. And by ALL, I mean everyone.

All this does is get me fired up. Don't take it personally.

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Hahahaa...

I just have to laugh

No one said to take their vote away . They are voting now and getting a large portion of the rewards... I think you may not have read anything I said... Which is common amongst Steemians these days.

I was delegated a LOT more than what you see!!! You have no idea how many newbies I supported because they couldn't speak after one post and three comments.

Know what created that situation?

HF20. The magical last "fix"

I take full responsibility for trying to help as many people as possible stay here after THAT disaster.

Funny where were all the SELFLESS investors then that you are so quick to defend??? Passing out all their SP to keep this place afloat like me and other minnows were???

No one that I know in all the communities that I am a part of is asking for a handout.

None of them.

Not even the Venezuelan friends I have that really needed help

But we all bent over backwards to help them anyway.

Cuz that's the kind of community we have.

And i busted my ass to make dolphin. Every post I did, the novels i wrote, the projects i created... and now we have to sit through another "experiment" where the rich can gain and the poor have to suck it up

And I would rather share my hard work elsewhere. I would stay if there was a conversation about distributing things evenly. But that's seems to not be an option.... Hmmm I wonder why!!!

Cuz people who are making lots of money want more.

We ALL lost money over the last year... But somehow we need to favor their plight over our own.

Psssht go sell it somewhere else cuz not one of us is buying it.

Don't take it personally...I'm just sick of the nonsense being shoved down our throats. I refuse to thank someone for a kick in the arse.

It would be nice if people would start taking responsibility for their own actions...a refreshing change actually.

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First, I need you to calm down. I've been here nearly three years. I've seen hundreds of people fly off the handle.

I have a few questions.

Are you angry or annoyed with that list of voters on Palnet for sharing half of what this post is worth here on Palnet?

Does it bother you that even though a portion of STEEM rewards pool is getting diverted to a new system, there's another reward pool to dip into?

Does it bother you that I just added 50 cents worth of STEEM and 1 PAL to the rewards here?

Are you annoyed with me if I get half of that?

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I've been here just as long as you.

Why does everyone need to calm down?

I really don't understand when people say "don't get emotional"

Are we all robots? Should we not care about where we have just spent the last 3 years, watching it go down the toilet?

My last three posts and comments (and I replied to every single one... So you can go read them.) have my stance

It's clear.

People want to take what I'm saying and twist it.

I've already addresses what you asked.multiple times. If you're interested, you can read through the comments.

If not, it's fine with me. Truly.

You are happy here with your "raise" from the money that other people will lose

Awesome 👍

Hope it works out smashing for you! You can vote on any post you like! Just not mine, because I won't be making any.

I guess I'm not understanding why that doesn't make you happy? You're getting what you want.

Celebrate!

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So you're not going to answer those questions? Just going to ramble on? And who said anything about emotions?
https://steemit.com/art/@nonameslefttouse/i-only-made-this-because-i-m-angry

Anyway, if you don't want to talk, I'm fine with that. You've made up your mind. I'm in no position to keep you here. I'm not going to beg you to stay. It's your decision. Plenty of new opportunities out there. If all you want to do is focus on what you can't do instead of what you can do, that's your call.

As for all that snobbishness and guilt tripping you felt like handing out. Don't worry about it. I ignored most of that.

I should add. Usually when this place stresses me right the fuck out, I just go for a walk, quietly. Sometimes I don't come back for a month or more. And I think if you're wrong, and then do decide to come back, most people with a brain won't hold a grudge.

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I answered them already. Not in the mood to repeat myself

Not focused on what I can't do. Focused on the opposite. Just not here.

Don't need anyone to beg me to stay. Why would you beg me? You don't even know me lol

I'm sure you have never gotten to know me even though we have been here almost three years. I've visited your posts several times. Entertained by your stuff.. upvoted it... Even got yelled at by you for filling your comment section by chatter. Lol

I'm all chattered out. Explaining myself one more time doesn't make my voice any louder.

I'm not the only one who has made up my mind. The top 20 have made up their minds too. That's the great thing about life. We can all make our own decisions and live with them.

So then we all need to figure out what our line is and take our leave when it hits that line. When HF21 passes the way it is... That's my line.sorry I don't agree with your "raise".

As far as you upvoting my posts... I'm pretty sure that this is the first post you have every upvoted for me lol

So... You really will not miss me at all. Lots of people leave and they aren't missed for very long. Who thinks so highly of themselves to think they were that important here? You and I... We ran in different circles, and that's cool. It's a big place.

You can keep upvoting all the people you normally upvote and find some newbies to support. They will need it after HF21 goes through.

Have a nice night and keep making your wild art. Enjoy Steem! You seem to a lot, it will need lots of people like you.

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Thanks! I don't remember guilt tripping you but .. if you felt guilt, I guess you have something to be guilty for 😜

And that's the first time I've been called a snob! Hehehe

I kinda like it. I shall now start sipping tea with pinky extended and look down my nose at the riff-raff! Lolol

Posted using Partiko Android

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Fascinating exchange of thoughts folks.

I was initially vexed at these changes because of reading the headlines of author rewards getting slashed by up to 33% possibly more (in the short term). But then I thought "hang on a second, I can take my delegations back and carry on curating and get bigger rewards for it".

Personally, when faced with a challenge like this, the emotional response always takes first spot, we're humans, it's how it works. Then the logical system kicks in and I can see the intention of the changes to stop bots and bid bots taking over (although they kinda already have) and encourage engagement via curation.

If it means more people vote on your post (and fingers crossed it will) then potentially, it will make a big difference to authors.

It's all ifs and buts right now, we won't know for sure and this is all an experiment anyway. You'll always have bad actors in any platform so I don't think powering down and leaving is the right decision.

Emotions are high, understandable. I've invested a lot of time in to this platform, not money, and got to where I am now from changing my approach multiple times to see what resonates the most with people to give me a fighting chance to grow my account.

Let's face it, any new person coming to the platform expecting to make thousands in their first month is deluded, I don't want those type of people here anyway. It's a long term thing, we're talking about years, of making connections, building your account. This is a totally new model of earning from content, the likes we haven't seen before and the development on the steem blockchain is unrivalled against other blockchain social media platforms in the space.

After long discussions and much thought, I won't be going anywhere and want to stick around to see the platform succeed. I'm not going back to FB that's for sure!

Take some time out, I think emotions have been high on such a delicate subject and things become clear when you step out of the furnace.

Take it easy

Nicky

Posted using Partiko Android

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I didn't look away. I looked right here and saw you voting on your own comment.

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That's right. Does it look like I do that all the time? Is this that perfect opportunity for you to ignore anything good I may have done in my life so you can point out that one bad thing you saw today, with the hopes of what? Making me look like a bad guy? I'm pretty sure I got that covered, buddy.

I wonder how feasible it would be for witnesses to set reward split levels in their configurations. Then the actual division at payout could be a moving 7 day average of configs assigned to each block. That would allow for each witness to target specific levels, justify their targets, and adapt as the community adapts.

There are tons of other components that work this way (like the 3.5 day average feed price used to calculate the portion of payout going to SBD) so the technical hurdles can't be too difficult.

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This sounds like a good middle ground compromise!

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there are many! let's take the time to flesh this out and SEE who it hurts before just jumping into a decision that initially hurts so many small accounts (the current 50/50)

this is a discussion that DESERVES to be handled alone and handled right. NOT quick and risky!

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I think there are many ways to tackle this - but the point is... we can't adjust it if it just gets voted on lumped into a yes/no deal. This is TOO big of a discussion and there are SO many options that take us in a new direction WITHOUT burning the house down in one swift move. I love that your comment immediately brought in another suggestion. It's proof that if we put our minds together - there IS a compromise.

they need to take it off the hardfork so it can be a much more open and varied discusssion.

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why not a slider or setting for content creators to set what they are offering curators?

the platform will find its balancewith the give and take between the two groups in order for each to grow. When a content creator sets their rate too high in relation to the quality of their work, the curators wont be upvoting and the creator will need to rethink their rate.

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That's an order of magnitude more complex from a technical perspective.

It would also require supporting development from every front-end and voting service running on Steem.

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You can already do this without too much trouble as long as the number is more than 25%. If you removed mandatory curation from the blockchain side I could spin up the back end of user-selected curation in a day or two. Somebody else would have to do the interface.

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I volunteer you as tribute.

Hehhehee

Posted using Partiko Android

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May the odds be ever in your favor.

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ha! his odds... not mine. i volunteered him :)

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it is.. not impossible though. It happens elsewhere .. Choon comes to mind.

If the likes of you who've been here for a longtime want to leave, then think it's no longer for me

Posted using Partiko Android

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everyone must come to the realization of where that line is for them... I know that if they are unwilling to change this proposal, we have reached that line for me.
:(

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Means we gonna loose a lot of people here

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maybe not. maybe more people will stay. who can predict? I can only speak for myself. and i know what that means.

Is the only solution a complete abandonment of STEEM? Or will we see the need for new interactions rise from the transformation? This is a largely ignorant position, but I am of the mind, that despite modifications to the payout structure, individuals will still earn STEEM. However, such a drastic difference in the type of activity done to earn STEEM may level the playing field in a large scope. Couldn't it be argued that the previous reward scheme favored authors too greatly? That remains another topic for discussion, but I cannot help but feel that the impact of the change may not be as poignant as feared. If so, I can only recommend we adapt.

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Couldn't it be argued that the previous reward scheme favored authors too greatly?

If this were true then presumably Steem would be swarming with high-quality authors who were creating content that was extremely appealing to the rest of the world.

Instead we have... well. It's pretty clear that Steem is not offering authors anything particularly valuable, and that the people in charge of it aren't interested in changing that.

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So what do we have here? Why are there so many big accounts and so many little accounts? Who are the middle class, and where do they, if at all factor in? Since we're under the assumption, as you so aptly put, 'presumably Steem would be swarming with high-quality' -- but it's not, if I'm to understand you correctly. As a result, is this dystopia simply so rotten to a malevolent core that we should abandoned ship? Or is this rhetoric drawn out and overplayed that the STEEM engine is out of coal and fated to destruction so long as we keep going in 'this direction'?

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Well that is the hope.

Once again - I say - if Steemit believes that authors are paid too greatly - then cut their pay, and put it into a community account .

Use those funds to support the SPS (worker proposal for the COMMUNITY)

Why are we taking those funds and putting them into large whale accounts? Can you answer that? I've yet to hear why we are choosing to put the funds THERE.

And everyone still here will adapt. Of course. I adapted (mournfully - after losing way too many Steemian friends who could no longer justify the time spent here after HF20). I waited a year to see this great hope and change that was coming.

Now? this is the change? this is what i waited for? more people leaving while the rich get richer?

no thank you.

Also, so you can know what the plan is... and how it affects you.

in the last 30 days

You earned 3.2 SP in curation rewards.
You earned 39.81 in author rewards.
Total 43.01 in SP

According to the plan, if you don't change any of your current habits (post & upvote the same) you will make
6.4 in curation rewards
26.28 in author rewards

Total 32.68 total.

Where is that additional money going to?

well - go back and look at my previous post that shows the numbers of a cross-section of people on the chain. The people in green - they are preparing for a windfall - for doing what?

absolutely nothing more than they did last month.

THAT is what is happening.

Will that change? Well, let me ask you. If you were getting double the money for doing nothing more - would YOU change your habits?

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I presume that I might. It seems to me that those most resistant to change aren't in accordance not out of fear of their positions, but a fear of the 'maybe' - a mix of different circumstances coupled with affirming evidence in the present context. I will open by sharing I could be wrong. Does that change anything? Yes. It changes what my gameplan will be as a minnow, because I'm still a minnow, and I understand it would be a very long time before I could be a big fish, but all we talk about is how long that road is, and we don't really help each other get there, we might swim in schools, but we all know how much we loved school when we were younger? It just doesn't jive for some people -- but I don't think I see Samaritanism as I know it. If we do something for the chain, we post, 'accept rewards', 'follow trails' and that's a fine approach, for those individuals. I won't discredit it. However, what about an individual that does absolutely nothing for the blockchain? They share things from themselves, that don't involve any group improvement, are they fit for our 'schools', minnows following dolphins en masse, seeking the morsels that help them grow? Well, I think if we're all as saintly as we claim to be, seeking 'newbies' and growing minnows, somebody like you would follow someone like me every now and then, and we'd have a middle class.

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The remaining crowd will just become incredibly cynical. To think they were pitching some kind of positive impact in the way we engage! There is no greater insult than to the intelligence, especially when it comes to tech nerds like us.

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I worry that the ones here who are "newish" won't really see the pattern that's been happening all along - and will keep staying for the "hope next time will be better" spiel.

i felt that way too. and it keeps getting worse, and it just makes me keep asking the question... whyyyyyyy. why are you trying to make this fail????

is it really that hard to be equitable? is it really so hard to disperse the risk and benefit of this proposal equally across the platform?

yes - investors need to make money - but so does everyone else.

and if we all make money - they will make a profit relative to their investment. meaning - LOTS.

why do we have to take more from the poor to make the rich happy? You're investors. Risk (and possible failure) comes with the territory. You don't get to change the script cuz you want more money. you get more money when the platform is a success! geez.

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While Bitcoin has entered bull market, altcoin is in bear territory. How about giving Steem a fighting chance by steering clear of the pyramidal structure that has given alts a bad name in the first place? For all the bad on Steem I have not paid much attention too (except for the early mining scam which is oh so telling, releasing an open source code full of deliberate errors? Really?) this is something else entirely.

Absolutely agree with you!

Maybe the real background of HF21 is a try to keep the last investors and whales on board?

A try to rescue what's broken already?
I see very hard times coming for Steem.
HF21 and the start of Voice will have such an impact on Steem nobody can imagine.
It's simply like:

1+1=2

Have a nice day, I completely understand your thinking.
Tom

Posted using Partiko Android

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I do believe you're right...

but wouldn't it be nice to be wrong? a lot of my friends here.. I dont' want anyone hurt. but everyone makes decisions for themselves based on their situation.

all we can do is be responsible for what we know.

you have a nice day too - and good luck to you! :)

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Yes, I hope we are wrong...
But the facts speak another language
Sad...

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hmmmm facts do that.

very sad

I also started to power down recently for the first time during all my 2 years on steem. It sad to see new dolphins not being supported by whales. It seems just a business, but if most dolphins and minnows will start to power down, who will create content to be curated ? Will they just curate each other ? Anyway, the power is not in our hands, that's why we have only two options, or to accept everything and keep posting or to leave at all. But with posting for such rewards, the only way to feel our work is to power down. I'm also sad for a lot of veterans who are powering down, but it seems if someone has 5000 or 10000 sp is not that much. From 100k it's considered to invest it, but for me I will need 10 years to get to 100k and in my real life I don't have other money, so I will buy finally a good pc and a quality camera and help myself and my family. I have a little kid after all and I need to think about his future.

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you're exactly right

So far - the only option is "take it or leave it."

There is no "let's wait and talk about this more." It is only we have the power, and you do not. We have the voice, and you do not.

If that's the case, "take it or leave it" is a simple decision for me

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I know in the past we two had sometimes different opinions, but on that point I agree with you 100%!
Wish you and your family all the best.
Tom

Posted using Partiko Android

I have had responses from some of my current witnesses. I appreciate that as I am one of their constituents. The concerns you express are viable and I understand as well as empathize with your current state of mind concerning our STEEM World and the direction it is taking.

You, like myself and many others, are devoted and loyal to this platform. That may be why at times we are critical of its direction. Constructive criticism is not disloyalty, actually; it is a sign of great loyalty!

Since I believe this post deserves mass distribution, I will be tagging a number of witnesses I currently and have in the past endorsed below.

actifit @actifitadsactly @adsactlyaggroed @aggroedats-witness @ats-witness
ausbitbank @ausbitbankc0ff33a @c0ff33aclayop @clayopdanielsaori @danielsaori
drakos @drakosenginewitty @enginewittyfollowbtcnews @followbtcnewsfyrst-witness @fyrst-witness
guiltyparties @guiltypartiesjackmiller @jackmillerjustyy @justyymahdiyari @mahdiyari
neoxian @neoxianpfunk @pfunkpharesim @pharesimpoetsunited @poetsunited
reggaemuffin @reggaemuffinroelandp @roelandpsteemgigs @steemgigssteemitboard @steemitboard
themarkymark @themarkymarktimcliff @timcliffura-soul @ura-soulyabapmatt @yabapmatt
yehey @yeheyquochuy @quochuy (NEW)

The above list is not current as I am reviewing my witness endorsements due to HF21 as well as other factors.

A good resource to see what witnesses are up to is provided by @thewitnesspage a compendium of current witness blogs and witness related matters managed by @jackmiller.

For a look at the technical performance of witnesses, one may visit https://steemian.info/witnesses managed by the witness @drakos.

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Thanks for doing that sarge! don't know what becomes of anything anymore - but I do know - no one can say I didn't fight for what I believe in!

and... three posts with all organic upvotes and resteems and comments galore?

I think a lot of people find this topic worthy of discussing MUCH longer.

think we will be heard? hm.. i guess we will see.

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Unlike those that were not happy about the election of my current President and threatened to leave the Country for places North of the border, I have chosen not to take that route.

It may be viewed by some to be a sinking ship but, I for one am here for the long haul. I guess I will stay and help bail out the water so to speak.

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I am happy to see that there are people who feel convicted to stay! It broke my heart months ago to see certain people leave- but at the time, I also felt convicted to stay.

Now ... i can say I know how heartbroken they felt to make that decision.

I still hold out hope that in one miraculous moment - they decide to pull the 50/50 off this hard fork! it will bring such relief that only are they willing to discuss this longer and wait for better timing - but that our voices were heard???

it will have made this whole thing worthwhile.

until then - get your buckets ready Sarge ;) Bail that water out! :)

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Hi dreemsteem the SHADE tokens are on the way.
Thanks for sharing SHADE
To view or Trade SHADE visit steem-engine.com

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Cool to see your new one, like that guy, seems like a good soul.

Posted using Partiko Android

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If and when you learn their positions on eip, I'd love to know. I will move my witness votes around to vote only for those who are opposed to EIP in hf21. I think all of us who oppose eip in hf21 should, but we need more information!

Posted using Partiko Android

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You may wish to check out these two links to stay abreast of the situation as it unfolds as well as posts by witnesses and their position.

https://steemian.info/witnesses

https://www.steempeak.com/@thewitnesspage

I would also suggest visiting your witnesses blogs and following the tags #hardfork and #hf21. That is how I do it.

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That's what I've been doing, but there's very little clarity from any of those opposing it. I mean, from some, but not clearly from 30 of them that I can make my votes for.

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Weird that no one wants to go on record for something they believe in...

Posted using Partiko Android

It's nice out here.

Not long after HF20 - largely but not entirely because of the last round of this discussion - I made the decision to power down 80% or so of my stake, and I don't regret it for an instant. I've done much better financially with that money in that time than I could have by holding it as Steem Power, and also had a better time with it.

These days I hold SP primarily as a means of having RCs for projects outside of the blogging ecosystem, and powering up again just isn't remotely on my radar.

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I understand your reasoning - but it absolutely breaks my heart. I hate to see what's happening here. This was my home for so long - and FAMILY was here. (is here!) I still hold out hope that they can stop the madness and slow down. That they can THINK about the future, but also THINK about the present!!!!

Without a healthy present - there IS NO healthy future!

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Oof.

Posted using Partiko Android

I know 3 Steemians who rely on their author rewards to physically survive. They cash out to pay bills, rent and to buy food. A 30+% cut in earnings will destroy them, and the experiment that is Steem will have suffered its first major defeat - the destruction of the dreamer, and the squashing of ambition.

A sad day... there's a reason I came to steem and not tezos or neo, I want creators to be rewarded.. not stake holders.

Posted using Partiko Android

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Unless you already are counting me - I am one of the people who lives off of steem money. I am worried, but also an optimist. I'm not planning to do anything until this goes through.

This post however, makes me understand what might be coming in a much stronger way than anyI have read before. All along I have been wondering what would make the bigger accounts vote for me and other small accounts when they never have before. Wouldn't they just vote for each other more?

Hoping and praying this is better than it seems.

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I think we need more than hope and prayers! We need to vote for witnesses who will oppose eip! And continue making our voices heard!

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Well, where is that list of witnesses?

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Still seeking. I think @drakos is the only one I'm sure of. It's hard to get answers, but we'll keep pushing!

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@fitinfun and @improv - @shadowspub put up a poll asking specifically - ALL the top witnesses to weigh in on this.

The last I checked (which was yesterday... so this could have changed... only two had responded.)

Go check @shadowspub post to see if any more have answered!

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Nice! Most of them are never heard from, so this is not a surprise.

I really appreciate this and especially your numbers post, with the red and green, @dreemsteem. I will be sending that one to a few places tomorrow. I don't know if it will help, but maybe.

Hopefully, my good ability to sleep will not fail me now. It's almost 2 am in Malaysia and I feel like my head is about to explode now.

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@cervantes had a poll with more responses. And since I oppose all of EIP, and think even EIP without 50/50 will be bad for everyone without whale power, that one asks the relevant question. Really, I think this new curve is the biggest problem. It's complicated mathematically, but do you know about it? Essentially, if your post makes less than about 10 steem, it will make EVEN LESS. And the posts that make more will get the benefit.

Posted using Partiko Android

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Oh, and @yabapmatt is against EIP, but won't oppose the top twenty witness majority. So we need nine more in the top twenty to oppose it.

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What about @curie? They would seem to be against killing off content.

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Hahahaha!
Thé naïveté!

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What do you think of them?

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they were an unequivocal yes in the cervantes poll..

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I agree - let's make a compromise that benefits the community! not just large accounts. how hard is that??

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I guess it depends on if you're a large account holder

Posted using Partiko Android

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Yes!

Posted using Partiko Android

Obviously this is a complicated situation with many parameters in the equations which all have knock-on effects which are hard to predict the outcome of accurately. For every argument here I can see a counter argument and there are valid points to be made on both sides. I see flexibility being the solution here - which could mean having the payout split created dynamically from the settings of individual witnesses, as suggested here already by @josephsavage - or it could involve the introduction of Steem Communities as was basically promised way too long ago and which have not yet surfaced. Communities can support a variety of independent settings, such as a difference in split of curator/author rewards - so once those go live, in theory, the default split becomes less significant.

I can appreciate the concern that big stakeholders will be better rewarded through upvoting others, however, here's what I see as being the argument in support of that outcome:

Steem is not an attractive investment compared to many other tokens, primarily because it's value continually drops due to inflation. From that perspective, Steem is like a leaky sieve from the perspective of investment. It is only viable if you either expect it to explode and compete with Facebook et al - or if you intend to be active on the network and make many of your own posts. Since there is only so much time in the day and so many things to post about, long term investors are pretty much forced to either continually make pointless posts to not lose the value of their investment or just pull out. This means that we see lots of shoddy posts at the top of the lists and it is discouraging to most users - plus totally invalidates the entire proof of brain mechanism that underpins the entire Steem concept. So.. by giving more rewards to curators, long term investor's lives are made a bit easier. You can always say that these people can just leave and we will only then have people who are here for the content, which is fine, but plenty will not leave and if they do - in enough numbers - the price of Steem drops even more.

It's fine to say that Authors can't afford to make content when they don't get nice payouts - but huge numbers of people (including me) have been making content totally for free for over a decade... So while, as an author, I have empathy for that position, the reality is that something is better than nothing.

For me, the bots are a bigger problem than the whales as they totally depersonalise and invalidate the underlying mechanism of post valuation. They remove the competitive aspect that has people battling to be the 'best brain' .. And so, much of the excitement of Steem is gone as a result of their use. If increasing the curation payout has an effect of chilling support for bots then that is a very good thing - though it remains to be seen if they will.

Personally, I am open for experiments - so I'm open to seeing what effects a split change has, it can always be changed back again. I personally would have gone for 66.6%/33.3% (or similar) as a middle ground.

I have said almost since the beginning that Steem is not being evolved quickly enough and I imagine that it is quite likely that we will see another team take over from Steemit Inc. in the next year or so - maybe the Steem Engine team.

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If increasing the curation payout has an effect of chilling support for bots then that is a very good thing - though it remains to be seen if they will

I believe that CLRC will make purchased votes even more popular, by making it 'essential' to bid up to 16 STEEM and shift your posts onto the mostly linear part of the curve. This could be partially offset by downvote pools, but there has never been wide-spread established consensus that bid-bot content should be downvoted, and there are social costs to downvoting against consensus, so I'm not optimistic here.

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I have provided a couple of possible solutions to the bid bots before - including changes to front ends so that users can remove the effect of bots from their experience and also a possibility of having Steemit inc. use their vote power to create 'official' vote selling, where the cost of the vote goes into the reward pool or is burned. I think these are better alternatives than adjusting curation/author splits - but what happens in the real world is not always in line with expectations!

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Love your brain. Me personally, I would have the author choose the curation applied to each post. A simple slider would be effective enough. Some people already decline rewards or hand them off to beneficiaries. 50/50 could be the default setting and people could alter it as they saw fit.

Posted using Partiko Android

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Thanks! Yes, giving the option of a slider on each post could also be interesting - it would force authors to choose community or isolation to some extent. It's all an experiment!

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I would consider that for sure.

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Ive got an idea.

why don't investors invest.

why don't curators curate.

the problem is - investors are seeing a quick way to make a buck by putting up any old post and self-voting (or - having a fellow whale vote) THAT is not curation. THAT is skimming off the top and HURTING the blockchain.

Why don't we differentiate between investors and curators. they are in fact NOT the same.

An investor would be better served to STOP taking funds inapprorpriately and simple DELEGATING their massive power to places like Curie. who actually DO curate.

That way - the people who want to spend TIME on here making it better - can do so.

and the people that are here to make money - can NOT bother spending time here (hurting it!!!) and TRUST their power to entities that will actually MAKE them money the right way (and... lo and behold - help PROTECT their investment by making the whole place grow!!!)

and your "something is better than nothing" is incorrect. You have chosen to give your content away for free - and that is your own choice on your blog. You do still have the option of doing that here too. You can always decline payout.

The point is - just because you have given it away for free - DOES NOT MEAN that it isn't worth more.

The DRAW to Steemit was not just "hey we are another blog that you can post your stuff on" The draw to Steemit was - we are that - PLUS you can earn money! Look at all the ads for Steemit made by Steemians. THATS the first thing they push. that you can EARN.

so we can't now go... oh.. well, gee. I mean - I guess we can go back to giving it away for less and less - cuz, well - they're gonna change the rules on us.

The people who came here with money as part of the equation CANNOT HELP but look at a 42% (not 33 - but actually 42 with the WHOLE hardfork proposal) salary cut as a very serious attack on content creators.

not just an attack - but a bonus for INVESTORS.

I'm also open to experiments (70/30 can give us a good, safe starting point!) - but not ones where the big guys have nothing to lose , and we screw all the little guys in the process. That's shooting ourselves in the foot. again. and again. and again. and again.

tired of it, anyone else???

p.s. Steem will continue to not be an attractive investment if everyone leaves.

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Why don't we differentiate between investors and curators. they are in fact NOT the same.

Well, they both invest their resources into the platform, whether that be time or money. They are both vested in seeing returns too. My understanding is that part of the intention of increasing curation rewards is to increase the chance that investors will curate.

An investor would be better served to STOP taking funds inapprorpriately and simple DELEGATING their massive power to places like Curie. who actually DO curate.

They would only be financially motivated to do that if curation rewards are significantly higher than they are, I think.

lo and behold - help PROTECT their investment by making the whole place grow!!!

Generally, from what I have seen, many of the 'investors' are not really behind the success of the platform from an ideological perspective or even a geeky tech perspective - they are generally interested in gains, short term if possible. I agree that investors should be thinking longer term - HOWEVER, if the development of the platform doesn't shore up their belief in it's long term viability, they will be thinking short term only.

The point is - just because you have given it away for free - DOES NOT MEAN that it isn't worth more.

Sure, yes - but something is still better than nothing.

The DRAW to Steemit was not just "hey we are another blog that you can post your stuff on" The draw to Steemit was - we are that - PLUS you can earn money! Look at all the ads for Steemit made by Steemians. THATS the first thing they push. that you can EARN.

There is nothing at all to earn without investors providing that money - that's just how it works. There needs to be a balance and since there is no Steem without investment, arguably the investors need to be given higher priority than the authors in some way. I didn't think like this at all when I joined here, but once I understood how the maths works a bit better this became undeniable. Authors will always be here as long as they can get paid - which they will do, as long as investors are here. If another platform figures out how to pay authors and attract investors better, then people will go there, so far I haven't seen that happen - probably partially because it's not a simple goal to achieve by any stretch of the imagination.

As far as the issue of the large stake holders having an advantage - they always have done - it has never been any different. The aim then needs to be to find ways to shift things around so that that inherent imbalance doesn't totally break proof of brain - which it has so far.

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You will do fine on the new proposal. You have no problems with accepting anything they give because you see anything as a bonus. Thats what they want you believe - and - it's worked. I don't have a problem at all with you holding this mentality. I just value my work more.

I think that if investors have come here thinking that they have a sure investment on their hands.... they came in with the wrong mentality.

Investors invest money.

Curators invest time.

when you have an investor that is investing their time to properly curate - then you can call him/her a curator. When you have an investor that is self-voting their own trash post just to make money - that is not curation. that is breaking down the foundation of the system that they want to make money on.

The large stake holders do have an advantage - and that has always been the case.

Now you - are in essence - saying - "give more of my rewards to them to make them happy. Not just my rewards - give more of EVERYONE'S rewards to make them happy."

ok - i mean. If steemit can find enough people like you to stay and be happy with that - great - you're happy making less - they're happy making more - and you're actually thankful for the opportunity to give more.

You are exactly the type of Steemian that they hope will stay. And if there are enough of you that will give up your rewards to make the investors happy - this will be the most brilliant plan ever.

Not much else to say to that mindset LOL except... good luck to you! :)

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You are skipping over the mathematical reality here. There is nothing to give anyone without the presence of 'investors', period. If a service on Steem doesn't bring in investors then it is basically just something that causes the value of Steem to drop - there is no way around that. This is part of the understanding behind @oracle-d for example and why @ned stated that he wants more platforms to think in that way (and why Oracle D has a 2 million delegation).

You have no problems with accepting anything they give because you see anything as a bonus. Thats what they want you believe

Erm.. I don't really believe anything - I am speaking from the experience of 12+ years of content creation. Sure, I am here to receive rewards and I am also here because the system is uncensored (relatively). I am currently of the understanding that I stand to earn more and the platform stands to grow more as a result of the price of Steem going up, which could possibly be more likely to occur if curation payouts are increased. Maybe not, I don't know for sure. I am not in some kind of battle here - this is all an experiment. My own content is of the kind that is intended to help the world - I don't really need to be paid for it, but I do appreciate when I am.

I think that if investors have come here thinking that they have a sure investment on their hands.... they came in with the wrong mentality.

Sure, but they are going to do whatever they can to maximise their returns.

Now you - are in essence - saying - "give more of my rewards to them to make them happy. Not just my rewards - give more of EVERYONE'S rewards to make them happy."

No, I am not saying that at all. I am saying that they will find ways to extract the money regardless of the split of rewards.

If I make less money then I could do more curation. Do I have time for that? Not really at the moment. However, if curation does become as much of a rewarding process as authoring, then maybe I would make more time for it - which should really help the platform grow.

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you cannot make up the loss in curation rewards. I've already shown that.

you're missing the point.

investors invest in an idea based on risk and potential.

I see your new prototype. You ask me for $5000. I say - that's a good deal! I'll agree to $5000 for a 10% stake in the business.

2 years down the line - i don't like the deal anymore. You're not making money fast enough. Sorry - I want a 25% stake in the business so I can start making my money faster.

It doesn't work that way.

And here - its different. We give investors the opportunity to make accounts and take from the platform.

They can essentially write posts and upvote them at 100% and continue to pull money from the platform and into their own accounts.

Do you know what kind of deterrent is in place for this?

We can all downvote their posts. LOLOLOLOL THAT is the solution. or... we can just hope reeeeeal hard that they stop!

cuz people are good deep down inside, right?

I do not need to be paid for my content either. I would prefer highly - if the pay that i have begun accustomed to - was not taken from me and given to orca/whale accounts.

this. does not. solve. any problem.

it encourages MORE investors to come and TAKE MORE from the system.

Why do people think that when we set up a situation to abuse the system - that "nice happy investors with good intentions" are coming in droves to support this system. They're going to come expecting what their friends told them was here. a way to make money quick.

That is another mathematical reality that you're failing to see. People who abuse the system by continuing to take from it because they aren't earning enough, will ruin the system.

that goes for whales - all the way down to plankton.

When you create a desperate situation, people act selfishly.

and that's why I don't want to be a part of it, in this form. Because things (i predict) are gonna get much worse. and we are already at 40 cents/ steem. Can't go down much further without breaking.

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I have posted a few times on exactly the topic you claim I am not seeing. I have made the exact points you are making here - I did that over a year ago. However, I have since realised that there really is nothing to 'optimise' without the system being deliberately made attractive to investors. The mathematical reality is that the inflation process is where the rewards come from, in combination with the investor money. The inflation process means that investors will lose their money if they don't take action. It's up to them to decide whether they are best served by upvoting themselves or trying to get their money back another way.

I'm not really sure what you are suggesting as a solution here. Investors can take action to increase their rewards, whether it is through curation or authoring posts.

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I'm saying.. they're making money and taking it out just like they accuse the little people of doing....but they do it too with greater consequence!

Perhaps this was one big grand experiment that was doomed to fail from the beginning because it requires people to be honest and vote quality instead of following money.

Support others and grow, instead of taking what is "theirs"

It doesn't really matter , does it.

You will stay.
I will go.

Life goes on 🙂

people were upset in my DM last night asking me to.please reconsider... But we know the truth... No one is that big of an influence to be missed for very long.

Another person will replace me and again... Life goes on

It would make me happy if this all worked out for the best. I'll say no more, except...

Thank you for spending the time to comment so fully!

I sense your frustration too. But I also sense that you have much more "grit" to stick it out.

Best wishes!!! 🙂

Posted using Partiko Android

So our government (top20) is dependent upon the votes of whales to stay in government.

Pretty much the case, no matter how we present it!

The next time I read a post from an "anti-establishment" cheerleader somewhere on our Steem blockchain, I will remember the facts and figures I put out there the other day about dead voters, voters on dead witnesses and what some others have mentioned from time to time 'those that just don't vote'.

Responsibilities exist at all levels for everything in a voting system that depends on the people.

I don't see the need to "give up" or "withdraw", what I do see is the need to take a breath and clear ones mind and start thinking along the lines of:

"OK, this is reality, what do we do to change it?"

Yesterday is in the past, it is what I do today that matters.

& cheers for taking action on what you believe in, Steem has a future!

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Thank you for the DM before I read this... LOL

Today IS what matters - and that's why I wrote this post INSTEAD of just walking away.

by the way - have you noticed my witness votes? lol I updated them - BECAUSE of your post.

Imagine! People reading and growing from valuable posts... huh! what a novel idea!!! LOL

I hope Steem does have a very long and bright future. I'm glad that there are people who feel that they need to stay to make that happen.

I think I would stay too - if my voice mattered. After HF20 and the destruction of everything we had built in Welcome Wagon (over a year!!) with ONE swift move... I stayed. I fought. I worked hard.

HF21 is an indication that we haven't learned, and that we don't care to learn. We just want everything now at the expense of so many people. I can't stand beside that.

If you can - I hope you can fight until the bitter end, Sir Jack.

No matter what - I love you dearly and can't wait to see you next year. hehehehe

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Ooo, he made a witness moving around post? I'll go check it out!

Posted using Partiko Android

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2nd comment from me, Sir Jack LOL

"OK, this is reality, what do we do to change it?"

it is NOT REALITY that we have a 50/50 rewards system in place. The reality is WE HAVE A 75/25.

Do you see how they have everyone believing this is reality when in fact.... it is NOT. yet.

My post is about KEEPING that the reality of 75/25 - or COMING UP with a better solution than "Take from the poor, give to the rich, and hope that somehow in the end - everyone is good and kind to one another and we chase all the bad guys away."

And - I think it's fair f me to say that you WOULD give up or withdraw if there was a decision to make author rewards 0.... right?

So, if that's the case - it IS a matter of give up or withdraw at a CERTAIN POINT. and That point is different for everyone.

For me? It's 50/50

But I MIGHT agree with 70/30...

or even the 50/25/25 that I mentioned where 33% is taken from the authors and given DIRECTLY to the community to support the SPS

Right now - with the changes that we are being suggested in the FULL hard fork - author rewards are NOT going down only 33%. They are going down 33% in the rewards system. They are going down an ADDITIONAL AMOUNT bringing us to a 44% LOSS OF AUTHOR REWARDS

44% loss for authors.

Can you imagine any other system that could withstand that without a mass exodus?

Perhaps that's what they are TRYING to do?

Instead of firing the employee, the boss is turning up the heat and making working conditions so bad - that the employee just leaves of his own free will.

hm.

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damn it, I was going to chill out and enjoy some tunes, then you had to get me all hyped up again.

I agree with you fully on everything, even I was talking about the reality of how our governance works and what our responsibilities as voters are.

& all I want to agree with is 0 steem payouts.

and here is a part of a comment from a few minutes ago on the topic:

"as for EIP, I can't grasp the fact that our priorities have shifted back to something that was done in 2017 with HF19, instead of putting all efforts into SMTs, especially after HF20 set the path for SMTs and an almost infinite economy for our Steem ecosystem.

So, to me, I am literally lost for words when it comes to what all is going on.

We seem to have strayed off the path that were on, our vision has been blurred by things that would be totally obsolete once the SMTs are necessary for any front end to operate.

So yeah, don't ask me mate, I'm just as confused, if not even more than most of us out there in this deep blue!

Cheers."

I don't get WTF HAPPENED!

Did we really get sidetracked that bad in all this that we literally got lost to the point of no return!

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not gonna drag you back in.... go enjoy your tunes! hehehehe

Personally I make around 30 cents a post unless I use bots. For the first 6 months I hardly made one cent on each post. Steemit doesn't reward good posts and I'm fed up with it. I've hung on all this time in the vain hope that it would pick up for me and know now that if I wasn't with PHC then I would only be making less then 10 cents a post, if that. So why bother? Unless a miracle happens I'm done with steemit. I'm only hanging on until the power down finishes in another 10 weeks and then I shall probably not bother any more. Why should I spend hours every day making anything from 300 to 4000 word posts for a few cents?

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Agreed 💯

Posted using Partiko Android

I think you are being generous here, if only it was greed but it is pure stupidity. The way things are going, there will not be any revenue for anyone. Steem relies heavily on a use case that will melt away faster than a glacier in Greenland after this hard fork.

In a world where alts are bleeding to no end, community is Steem’s last prayer but community can’t thrive without new arrivals and new arrivals WILL NOT generally dump 7000 in SP.

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I see this exactly as you see it!!! Do you ever just look around and think "we must be the insane ones... because this seems so obvious to me - and they are refusing to see/ acknowledge it"

we must be the insane ones! LOL

you nurture from the ground up. you build a strong foundation. but - if they will not - if they continue to pick at the base, then what chance does the top have?

what chance does anyone have?

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It feels weird I agree, to think there would be such hubris and short sightedness at the higher levels is a shocker. It feels like the Atlantean dream is sinking fast... wait! I see a whale out my window!

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Hehehhe a whale??? Ask him to upvote us! 😂

Posted using Partiko Android

I think the whole Economic Improvement Proposal should be put on hold, not just 50/50.

The SPS is good, but the idea of free downvote pools is ripe to be abused by the folks with enough power that they can ignore the social consequences of their downvotes. And the new curve is going to hurt little accounts even more than 50/50 will, which will only encourage MORE bidbots, not less. Much like @dustsweeper is necessary for a lot of folks now so they don't lose all the pennies they get on comments, larger sums will go to bidbots so people can get return on the small votes. This doesn't seem like the solution to the problem. I'm opposed to all of it, and at the very least, think we need to take these hardforks seriously and get a voice for the average user into the conversation before we go through with more than SPS.

Posted using Partiko Android

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voice for the average user would be so nice.

but our representatives are supposed to be our voice.

if they are not - then as @jackmiller suggested - we should choose those who represent our voice.

It may not have any sway at all - since - again - as @jackmiller suggested whale votes really hold the power over who gets moved to the top 20 witnesses.

but we have votes - and we are supposed to use them accordingly.

We all have the responsibility to vote in a way that expresses our views. I - for one - will be updating my votes as this all plays out.

Will it matter?

It matters to me.

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Yep. Examining all my options now. About to post.

Posted using Partiko Android

Why should curators make more? They are already making 25% on work that they did not create.

I don’t understand why this is such a contentious issue.

Authors currently receive 75% of the total post reward. That’s for one single person.

Curators receive a maximum of 25% of the total post reward. That’s divided between all of its curators, which often numbers in the hundreds - and in the future (potentially) could regularly be in the thousands.

Is it really so unfair for one user to receive 75% of rewards and hundreds or thousands of others to split the remaining 25%? Would it be so absurdly unfair for one person to receive 50% while the other hundreds or thousands split the other 50%?

Also - is it so ridiculously unfair to entice staking and reward stakeholders for the STEEM that they power up? To better incentivize and reward them for assuming additional risk? Is it so unfair to give authors a risk-free 50% split of any rewards they receive, thanks in large part to the people who have bought or held STEEM, powered it up, and upvoted the author’s content?

Where is this grotesque unfairness? And which group is actually being treated unfairly?

For the life of me, I can’t figure out why this is where so many people are making their stand. Do we not want to entice more people to assume risk by purchasing STEEM and powering it up - or to at least stop dumping so much of it? Are we content with the unsustainable reward giveaways to anyone who shows up and posts the kind of stuff that can be and is found anywhere else on social media?

When are authors going to recognize that people buying STEEM and/or powering up are the ones who actually make it possible for these authors to cash out their blogging profits in order to “make a living?” When will authors stop vilifying risk-taking stakeholders for seeking profits while those same authors complain about their own risk-free profit potential?

There are other battles to fight and other more consequential protocol changes and actions/behavior that have affected both authors and curators here. Why don’t we address those issues instead of always arguing about how “bad” authors have it?

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I've mentioned before...

When we go to the movies, we pay to be entertained. When we read books, we pay to enjoy a tale.

We do not get a cut of the profits. We don't wait at the ticket booth for a cut of the sales.

On Steemit, it's different. We DO reward the people who we entertain. It's the way to which we have become accustomed. Content creators were lured here with the hope of earning more here than other sites. Now that they're here, we want to deplete that and shame them into thinking they aren't worth it by calling them entitled, selfish and whiny for earning 30 cents on a post that might take 3 hours to create. Do authors deserve more than75% / less than 75%?

Honestly,
I have less concern about the amount that is changing for this proposal. I have more concern that the changes are going to be disproportionately spread over our population.

What is taken (42% of author rewards will be depleted if this proposal passes) will be up for grabs by curators. This would be awesome...if it was an opportunity to both make up for loss in author rewards and a proportionate benefit for curators. But we all know large stake holders will overwhelmingly benefit the most.

In essence, author rewards are going to be taken from content creators and scooped up by large accounts. Doubling 1 SPto 2 SP per month for small accounts will have very little effect on their wallets and the platform as a whole. Doubling 3000 SP to 6000SP per month..I think you see my point.

Small accounts do not have the stake to make up for the loss in author rewards. I've already shown this in previous posts. Specifically because large accounts take the lion's share of the curation rewards that are now being doubled.

Overall, small accounts will at least initially lose significantly while large accounts benefit significantly.

"Hope that it changes"... is great. But unpredictable.

and also... based on human behavior, that we once again "hope" will be for the good of one another.

We are taking more money from small accounts and honestly expect them to work harder, longer, and try to stand out...

While curators (specifically large accounts) get double for adding nothing to the mix. They will do the same thing on Tuesday that they did on Monday... But after HF21- they will make more.

Please dont say "then people can curate more". I've given my account as an example. But mine doesn't express how dire it is for people with smaller accounts than me. Even with mine...I was already curating twice as much as I should have, depleting my voting power and value of my vote... If I curated more, it wouldn't replace what I've lost.

Not only that, I've already shown that the people who are benefitting directly from this proposal are voting on thus while the majority of accounts are on the losing side.

That is the grotesque unfairness you are needing pointed out.

It is a glaring conflict of interest.

Back to curators, if they are entertained, enjoy our thoughts, participate in our contests, view our photos, watch our videos.... They upvote.

That is their appreciation/approval of the content.

And then they get a portion of the proceeds.

There activity is already rewarded

Witnesses work hard to make this platform work. We dont get a cut of their work. We benefit when they do their work well.

Content creators create content for themselves, for the community and for the benefit of the platform. We benefit when they do their work well. We also get a cut of their work as a bonus and a motivation to curate more.

To curate better? No. To curate for financial gain. That's the nature of steemit. Most people curate three ways. For friends, for unknown good content, or for financial gain.

You will never stop people from voting for their friends.

I believe that there will be less good content...why? Because people feel unappreciated and disposable.

The only thing that remains is curating for financial gain, and people are already trying to figure out ways to regain the rewards that are being lost and I can guarantee you it has nothing to do with good content. It has to do with self-voting and following big accounts, timed right on autovote.

How does that solve the issue?

Also, if a whale gives a 100% upvote for a trash post vs a quality post... What is their motivation in this proposal for upvoting quality vs trash?

What is their motivation in this proposal for voting for others instead of themselves?

The ones who have the most influence (and make the most curation rewards) have absolutely no motivation to use their votes for quality.

Actually... This proposal STILL allows for whales to abuse their votes if they want to.

And what is our recourse? Some free downvotes to disagree? Seriously? How many Plankton, minnows or dolphins do you know that want to go head to head with a whale and put a target on their back with a downvote?

Once again, the only policing that will happen will be on the smaller accounts, stirring up negativity and spiteful behavior.

"Thank you for that completely objective downvote. I appreciate your right to distribute the rewards away from my post. Have a wonderful day!"

That will not be heard on Steemit. Ever.

I appreciate that investors invested their money. Without them, this site would not be.

I appreciate that good content creators write things that entertain us. Without them, this site would not be.

I appreciate that good curators use their votes to lift good content. Without them, this site would not be.

No one is entitled to a disproportionate redistribution of benefits, or should be punished with a disproportionate redistribution of risk.

Spread it out evenly and you would have less of an argument from me.

If they took the 50/50 off this proposal for now, and made it a singular discussion.. and allowed for some compromise... I think that would be wise.

Hope that more fully explains this grotesque unfairness that you were asking to be revealed.

Investors (meaning anyone who has invested in steem) make money when steem makes money.
Instead of being so focused on just getting them more money, I would love to see us ALL be willing to take cuts that are proportionate to our class so that we can ALL enjoy the benefits of growing the platform.

*Wrote this on my phone...apologize for any inconsistency in my thoughts... I had to scroll around a little lolol

Thanks for reading and responding. We don't have to agree, but I appreciate the willingness to discuss.

(P.s. I don't think authors have it bad at all right now... I accepted what I made for what I loved to give.)

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When we go to the movies, we pay to be entertained.

Sure. That's how movie theaters work. But this isn't a movie theater and the production studios, the actors, and the theater and its employees aren't allocated rewards from a finite and shared pool of resources on a blockchain created by the movie industry. So this isn't really a valid comparison.

Content creators were lured here with the hope of earning more here than other sites.

Right. And when the blockchain was launched, they were lured here with the opportunity to earn 50% of the post rewards, just as stakeholders were lured with 50% of curation rewards and a hefty cut of over 100% annual inflation. But the protocols were changed for everyone. Now the rewards split is being changed back.

Content creators can still be lured here with the hope of earning more than on other sites, since most other sites still pay $0.00 for most of the content hosted on their sites. That hasn't and won't change due to the EIP.

Doubling 1 SPto 2 SP per month for small accounts will have very little effect on their wallets and the platform as a whole. Doubling 3000 SP to 6000SP per month..I think you see my point.

This is not much of a concern at the blockchain level. Of course larger accounts will earn more in terms of STEEM. But the opportunity to earn in terms of percentage is exactly the same (and can actually favor smaller stakeholders that are above average curators). It doesn't matter if you're doubling from 1 to 2 SP, 100 to 200 SP, or 1000 to 2000 SP. If nothing else changes (which is actually unlikely and often ignored by everyone complaining about 50/50), every curator has the chance to double their earnings from simply curating content once HF21 is implemented.

Small accounts do not have the stake to make up for the loss in author rewards

That's right. But that's not the point of the protocol change.

We are taking more money from small accounts...

Nobody is taking money from anyone. The way that the rewards are distributed is changing. And there are three components (actually four now) that will affect this, not just 50/50. Focusing on only one change and trying to extrapolate future behavior and rewards based on current behavior with current protocols isn't wise and is the root of most of the teeth gnashing going on around here.

To curate better? No. To curate for financial gain. That's the nature of steemit.

Sure, that's the motivation for most people here. And it's exactly the motivation for authors: to post for financial gain. Isn't that exactly what you're complaining about? The amount of potential profits you might lose out on?

Again I ask: Why is it perfectly fine for authors to earn risk-free rewards and cash out their profits, but actual stakeholders who are assuming maximum risk on this platform must only contribute for a very small piece of the rewards pie - or must act against their own financial interests entirely?

No one is entitled to a disproportionate redistribution of benefits, or should be punished with a disproportionate redistribution of risk.

Spread it out evenly and you would have less of an argument from me.

Isn't this exactly what 50/50 does?

Stakeholders assume maximum risk for purchasing or holding STEEM, then powering it up to be used for influence on the blockchain. As a group, they are only able to receive a maximum of 25% of content rewards if they choose to only exert that influence by curating content. And this is pretty much the only direct ROI they have for staking. (Capital appreciation from speculation does not require them to stake their tokens and, in fact, is rarely seen with STEEM. Much of its history has seen downward price pressure and movement after some quick and very temporary spikes that occurred in the general crypto markets.)

Individual curators make much less than 25% of any given post reward. The content creators, on the other hand, as individuals, retain a full 75% of the post rewards. What you're saying is - those individual content creators and their rewards, at 75% of the total, are getting an "even" cut and should never have that changed, even as the system is crumbling around us...as new investment is practically non-existent and stakeholding remains under-incentivized.

What you're saying is - you'd rather see content creators receiving 75% of an annually inflated currency with not enough buyers to offset that inflation and dumping instead of seeing content creators receiving 50% of rewards in a system that entices more buyers (or just less dumpers) and could put needed upward price pressure on STEEM?

...I would love to see us ALL be willing to take cuts that are proportionate to our class...

If we're talking about "classes" of users, then content creators are the single largest beneficiary in today's system - and it's not even close. In fact, content creators - as a "class" - receive more rewards than every other "class" combined. If you're looking for "proportionate cuts," then I'm not sure why you're so opposed to reducing that massive advantage.

What you're actually arguing is that content creators should not be treated fairly in terms of "classes" and "benefits." Your argument is that they ought to earn more at the expense of the other "classes" - including the very people who make it possible for content creators to "get paid" and "make a living" in the first place.

And I'm sorry, but content creators getting paid is actually a byproduct of the system, not the driving force behind it. STEEM would very likely have at least some kind of speculative investment regardless of whether or not anyone posted content to the blockchain. It is that speculative investment that gives the tokens monetary value and allows people to play the rewards-for-profit game as content creators and curating stakeholders.

Dangling a bigger carrot in front of buyers in order to entice them to buy or buy more, then stake those tokens and participate in the system (which benefits everyone) is not an unfair strategy. It helps grow the platform (and also contributes to upward price pressure of STEEM), which is something you say you want...but continue to argue against.

(P.s. I don't think authors have it bad at all right now... I accepted what I made for what I loved to give.)

I don't think they'll have it bad with the new protocols. But I also think there's much more to fix that has killed the economics and the social atmosphere on this platform. The EIP is just a step in the right direction to help correct huge mistakes made in the past.

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Sure. That's how movie theaters work. But this isn't a movie theater and the production studios, the actors, and the theater and its employees aren't allocated rewards from a finite and shared pool of resources on a blockchain created by the movie industry. So this isn't really a valid comparison.

Which is exactly why I said - it isn't the same. Nowhere else does the consumer get to earn off of the creator's work. Here on Steemit, they already do. And you know what else? They dont' even have to prove that they actually read it. They can put someone on autovote (good quality or bad quality) and take a cut of the creator's work. So unlike the real world, where consumers purchase and enjoy entertainment and walk away, Here - they can actually take a cut of the creator's profits because that's whats allowed. Doesn't matter how long the creator worked on the piece. They are entitled to a portion of their profits by simply upvoting. It's unlike any other place. Right - so we agree.

Content creators can still be lured here with the hope of earning more than on other sites,

That's your hope, and you feel confident enough to try. Not really sure what else to say.

i was going to respond to every point - but... I think it might be better to say this. I've read what you said and instead of going through this whole thing and quoting and refuting - here is the bottom line.

You believe in this, right? It's clear that you want content creators to make less and curators to make more - and that's what's happening. you win! lol

You believe that it will make this place better. You believe that creators will find joy in creating because although it's a cut, it's still more than other places - so you have room to take from here and give to there, and still make people feel valued across the board. Newbies will come and look at their post payouts and say - no matter what, this is more than I would have earned on facebook! ok - you believe that. lol I have witnessed many people saying exactly the opposite, because I deal with newbies ALL THE TIME, and that is NOT the general concensus.... but... you believe this will be the case. ok.

You love this place, and you think this hard fork is going to make it better.

You would like to convince me that this is the way, and I'm wrong, and I just don't see the forest through the trees.

You think that this will cure bad behavior, and chase away abuse, and all the people who are good and kind and fair will rise up and make steem great again.

What more would you like me to say except - "How wonderful if you are right."

I mean that with all sincerity. How wonderful if 3 months from now - 6 months from now - content creators and curators are flocking to be onboarded here and steem is mooning and everyone says - hooray! HF21 was our saving grace!

This may sound like Im being sarcastic but I can assure you - I am not. If I am wrong - and I leave - but my friends are still here - and stay - and succeed... I will be absolutely thrilled.

Thank you for one again leaving your thoughts on here - I'm sure that when people come to read the comment section, they'll be more educated because they'll try to understand your side more.

As for me, I do not agree. But that's ok. Lots of people can agree to disagree and leave in peace. The powers in charge have spoken. Steemit has agreed. HF21 will go on. People will read your comments and my comments and try to understand both sides and come to their own conclusion.

I can wish you the best and mean it from the fullness of my heart.

night :)

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You love this place, and you think this hard fork is going to make it better.

You think that this will cure bad behavior, and chase away abuse, and all the people who are good and kind and fair will rise up and make steem great again.

Somebody has been lying to you!

You would like to convince me that this is the way, and I'm wrong, and I just don't see the forest through the trees.

Yes, I think that there is a lot of this that shows in your comments due to the focus on 50/50 and not on the overall package of the EIP.

It's clear that you want content creators to make less and curators to make more - and that's what's happening.

As a percentage of total content rewards, yes. But what you're talking about when you say "make less" is an assumption that nothing else will change. I simply believe that behavior will certainly change. We just don't know to what degree. We may very well see authors like yourself making more than you currently do, due to the protocol changes. You need to consider the changes as a whole, not in isolation and not predict future behavior and rewards distribution based on current protocols and behavior.

By the way...I'm working on a post right now to try to better explain that last point.

I'm also curious - do you support the SPS as it's proposed?

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If you DONT love this place and believe in HF21 - you sure have a funny way of showing it! LOL

It's ok to love Steemit. I did too. It's ok to believe in change - You do.

People spend their time here because they believe it matters. I can't imagine someone spending the time you do (your post was massive) and not deeply caring about it. Seems like an odd way to show it.

I've made my peace with my decision, and I will be happy riding out the rest of my time posting chapters of Fireflies, saying thank you to the people who made this experience most meaningful to me, and when HF21 passes - saying my goodbyes. When I leave, I'll focus entirely on Spunkee Monkee, and find them a new home. Life goes on for all of us. It's all good.

Many people have left before me, and I will be no different than them. I think someone said with fewer content creators that would actually increase the amount of rewards to go around, and make people excited again. So - if their predictions are right... its not such a bad thing that people are leaving.

I hope that it all works out - and you should start writing the post now called "Told ya so, @dreemsteem!"

lol sorry - i just needed to end this with laughter. Really - I appreciate your willingness to explain HF21 in a way that tries to appeals to everyone. You want people to stay on the platform long enough to see the great changes you believe are coming. It makes perfect sense. But you can stop trying to convince me.

Just write me off as stubborn! :)

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Well, before you go...

https://steemit.com/steem/@ats-david/the-economic-theory-of-hf21-s-eip

What's the harm in sticking around a little while longer to see what happens? Just think...if I'm completely wrong, you can make a big post about how dumb I am and tell everyone that ol' @ats-david, the lover of Steem, is just a big stupid cheerleader and Steem shill.

Wouldn't that be pretty damn ironic and funny?

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calling people names isn't my style ;)

and hey...

cheerleaders are not stupid. this one had a full scholarship to university. lol

it wouldn't be funny at all if you were wrong. it would be sad. and exactly why i do not want to stick around. HF20 was terribly sad.

but let's leave this interchange on a high note.

I do believe you are developing a crush on me - since you can't leave my post alone. 😏 Oh Chuuuuuuck. You're holding my hand, Chuck! You sly dog.

lol shoo. go to bed. goodnight. skedaddle. gyet! go on! no more talkie. close your peekers and go sheepie.

LOL goodnight Sir David.

I'm powering down as well. I've been slowly investing for 2.5 years. I was about to rant but it's just sad. Like you said it is still run by humans. And some humans have God complexes.

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I'm so sorry. I feel the same sadness.

and I see that you just upvoted your own comment. A lot of people don't like this behavior - but.... that is EXACTLY what people are going to be forced to do more of.... upvote their own comments because they can earn it all back instead of giving it away to whales in curation rewards.

That's the smart money move. and a lot of people are going to figure that out, and then they'll have to make MORE adjustments and figure out MORE ways to stop people from earning.

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It's ironic because I have to upvote my own comments now. In 2 to 3 days a bot will down vote it and become invisible. I tried to appeal the bot gods and they just booted me from the discord. So the bot lords are having the opposite effect than what they where going for. Me and some other investors are leaving because of @mack-bot.

This is as good a place as any to discuss and share opinions/strategies with the folks who have a great grasp of the numbers. Looks like you have them worked out fairly well and are part of the crowd communicating with each other to exchange bot fact and speculation.

I think now it falls to deciding strategy. Powering down is one of them but I can tell you are there only as a last resort. Witness voting should be what we are focusing upon like you as it is those witnesses who will make or break the vote. Is there a collection of those witnesses (I hear the vast majority) who are in favour of the change in split? If all the active engaged steemians pull their vote for the ones supporting the change in payouts, would that make a difference?

Aside from those 2, those of us staying should be talking about how to maintain our stake and grow it with different tactics if it goes through.

Will the barking dogs be heard or will the mailman just deliver the package (hf) anyhow?

Posted using Partiko iOS

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I did a post a week ago about which witnesses had declared for or against the fork:

https://steemit.com/busy/@candy49/which-witnesses-are-in-favour-of-hf21-and-which-are-against

People need to vote for those who will stop the fork and unvote those who would put it through.

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Oh wonderful! Let me check that out. Thanks!

Posted using Partiko iOS

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honestly - most likely not. the witness votes that we have are stake-based.

so yep - once again, the power to put people in the top 20 is not really in our hands. its in the hands of people who hold all the money, power, voice.

i would so love to say that the barking dogs might be heard. that's kinda what this post was. a last appeal? a call to say - can we take this off the proposal and at least talk about it some more??

there is always hope. right?

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If it is to be, it is up to me (us.). Alternatively, Hope is not much of a strategy.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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hope.... that they change their minds ;)

can't really force them. and they know that.

To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

this sads me to read, @dreemsteem!

i hope you reconsider, as we dont know yet what the future would really bring with HF21. (maybe oracle-d would know....you know, "oracle" hahaha)

altho I am one of those of a concerned low ranking witnesses (stealing a copyrighted signature of @isnochys lol)

but if you totally firm on your decision, how about we spend them Steem at Disneyland? ;-) we can take @improv with us hahaha

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You're a witness opposed to EIP? I'd be happy to vote for you if this is true!

Posted using Partiko Android

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majority low ranking witnesses are not even dolphin @improv...so that should say something? and am a blogger :-/

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hehehehehe all the Steem I have made at powerdown will go to invest in my Monkees! and when that takes off - (on whatever new home we find for them...) then I can celebrate at Disneyland! hehehe

but diligence, determination, creativity and continued inspiration FIRST. then play ;)

I have read a considerable amount about the proposed changes, including many opposing views. I appreciate how the numbers look from a content creators perspective, but there is a bigger picture to look at as well. Is it better to earn more Steem that is valued at the current low price, or less Steem at a much higher value? The proposed changes are directly intended to encourage and reward the consumption of content - people actively reading and upvoting / commenting on posts - it is really essential we get more people actually looking at the content instead of it being a platform of content creators alone.

From my own perspective I feel the proposed changes in HF21 will benefit the Steem Blockchain, but I also appreciate there is a great deal of argument against it - and I would like to think democracy will prevail and if it is seen more of our active users are against the changes then for it this will be taken account of.

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Well that's a great question. and I am so glad that you asked it because I want to answer!!!!

When steem was valued higher - I was earning maybe $5 a post? but steem was worth $6

What does that mean? It means that my post was not even worth 1 steem

Now - let's take yesterday's post. It was valued at $6 so far. somewhere around there. I earned ALMOST THE SAME value as 2 years ago - $6 - but the steem equivalent is about 14??? 14 steem! for the same USD value because steem was not as valuable.

stay with me... lol

so - when I was earning when steem was higher - WHAT SHOULD I HAVE DONE??

I should have TAKEN the money OUT. because it was high. The pressure when steem is high is to POWER DOWN AND CASH OUT.

why???

BECAUSE I HELD IT over the next 2 years, and i lost the MAJORITY of value there!

when it was high - I did not sell. I kept it - so that I could hope that it increased in value over the long term.

when it is low - NO ONE WANTS TO SELL. they want to keep hodling!

When steem increases... you really think the investors that we are so concerned about aren't gonna start selling as soon as they make a profit????

If we only look at steem as a currency -then people will always want to powerdown and sell.

but if we look at steem as an investment (which i do) then we encourage them to hodl... cuz we assume that better times are coming.

bottom line?

when 2017 had the high numbers? I would have been wise to SELL and repurchase more steem when it was low.

Instead - I held it. and it sank sank sank. and i lost all the value of it

Steem at a higher value puts significant pressure on people to sell. They don't want to lose money by waiting to see what it will do. Most will take the money and run.

so what we need to do - is not worry about pushing the value of steem up at the risk of hurting the platform.

we need to fix the platform and trust THAT will drive the price of steem.

If people feel that this is a place WORTH holding the steem. they won't sell it at the drop of a hat, they'll wait until it soars like bitcoin and then EVERYONE will rush in.

and... steem's government is not a democracy. a democracy shows that everyone has a say. and we really don't.

this is a republic. where we give our vote to (top witnesses) people who represent us. and right now - they are not representing the people's voices

last point... For all the people that are hearing this proposal for the first time (and there are so many that its actually sad....) the majority say THIS as their first response: " then i guess i better start autovoting bigger accounts."

does that sound like people are going to start actively reading? or does that sound like they will be looking for ANY way to recover their losses.

i do not have high hopes for this proposal.

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What I really love about your post, and the extensive comments it has evoked in just a few hours is the ENGAGEMENT- I love to see when people are really passionate about the Steem Blockchain and make the effort to join a big debate - which this is - everyone should and needs to have their say - your voice can only be heard if you use it.

I totally agree, because I have been through the exact same situation - the value of my Stake in Steem climbed massively in December 2017 - and held my stake and kept growing it because I do still believe we will seem the value of Steem climb above the highs we previously saw.

But then like all crypto’s it dropped, and I invested more because the price was low. Then it went lower and I went bugger. Then it started climbing so I invested again because it was on the up, and then it went lower again and I went damn someone hates me. Rinse repeat for the last year - but I keep investing and not powering down because I believe in the Steem Blockchain and what it can achieve - if we all work together.

I accept your point that if the value of Steem rises people will sell out - but right now when the value is low I see accounts powering down left right and centre and transferring funds out - it’s contributing to the low Steem value and at best I suppose they could justify it as pre-hardfork jitters but I think they just want to put everything into Bitcoin because that’s suddenly climbing.

For HF21 to occur we need 15 of the top 20 Witnesses to approve it - I would like to think they all take on out active Steemians feelings even if they do not openly respond to them. But Steem has evolved far beyond just blogging, the Blockchain is building gaming platforms, SMT’s will add value to any online content and the potential of the video content is constantly growing as users become tired of existing services.

I think Hard Fork 21 has had enough open advertisement, if people say they do not know about it then they probably rely too much on auto voters instead of engaging with the content on the platform. If they then say they will just autovote bigger accounts that also entirely misses the point - enhanced curation will reward voters on content that is voted on because of the quality of the content - not how much steem power the poster has.

This Hard Fork has obviously brought the Steem community together verbally, and I would like to think we will see much more engaged debate on the subject. I would also like my good friend @crisangel to make a comment on this because I know Steem Blockchain has had a big influencer on his life and still does.

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For HF21 to occur we need 15 of the top 20 Witnesses to approve it - I would like to think they all take on out active Steemians feelings even if they do not openly respond to them. But Steem has evolved far beyond just blogging, the Blockchain is building gaming platforms, SMT’s will add value to any online content and the potential of the video content is constantly growing as users become tired of existing services.

Here is part of the problem and you did it in this post. People equate content and authors with blogging. It is more than blogging. Those videos are content and they too will be hit by the cut in rewards along with the people who create content on the platforms like DSound. For that matter people who write comments are creating content. So many of the D'Apps like for example Actifit and Cleanplanet depend on content to distribute rewards to their participants. Content is vital. When content creators feel undervalued they pull away.

We're seeing that here just in this post. The number of people who are starting or are doing power downs. And that is without the change being made yet.

As for SMTs adding value to content. Yes they will and what do they need for infrastructure? OH people holding Steem. We need people to stay and to hold Steem. If some need to take Steem to survive on, so be it. Seeing people who would otherwise hold and support the platform taking Steem out. That needs to make you stop and think twice.

Many would at least hold off if the EIP was removed from this HF so we can see how the economic changes to support the SPS pan out. Then do what Steemit Inc suggested in the first place, discuss the EIP for a future HF.

Going to remind you.

Once upon a time we had a 50/50 split on this platform. We also had a super linear reward curve. There was a LOT of inequity between the haves and the have nots. So there was a push to change the economics. Instead of either changing the reward curve or changing the split, both were changed. We have no idea which change created which result.

So here we are, once again changing both split and reward curve. On top of that at the same time taking even more to fund a needed project on the platform. Too many changes and we once again will not know which outcome was caused by which change.

Will we ever learn?

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I agree wholeheartedly, but also we have to look how we learn. If at first you don’t succeed try and try again. Just because what we have right now is ok at best - is that a good reason to ignore other options. For sure we could be worse off then better - but in reality HF22 could just reset us back to where we are now in worst case.

Better to have love and lost, then never love at all.

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when we don't succeed and try again --- in the same ass backwards way while expecting a different outcome... seems that is the very definition of insanity.

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you and me both @c0ff33a!!!! LOL

whenever I would buy - the next 3 days it would drop SIGNIFICANTLY! @bluefinstudios began saying "Leah, when you buy - would you please warn us all???" LOLOLOL

I agree - "if we all work together"

but are we all? It doesn't feel like it.

I wont say I'll miss you... because i can still see you in discord! hahahahaha

but it will be different. life is change. i really don't like when doors close.

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You won’t miss me, nobody is going to miss a stumpy bearded Brit with the personality of a squashed apricot.

But I know you spent an awesome weekend with amazing Steemians just a week ago at @enginewitty #blockparty - something that would never have happened without the Steem Blockchain bringing you all together.

And @steemitblog have just posted that FCAS has just updated Steem Blockchain to A - that’s some serious recognition.

So often in life I have had to compromise and do things I did not want to do “just because”.
The funny thing is every time I did - it actually worked out far better then I ever thought it would.

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I'm still going to the meetup next year and gonna beg Witty if I can be on his planning committee hehehe

So there! You can get rid of me on Steemit but you can't get rid of.me on discord lol

And...I stuck around after HF20....It did not get better and it was much worse than j expected 😂😂😂😂

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I’m actually shocked - @enginewitty has a planning committee? I thought he made everything up while he was night fishing!

Well you already know my best friend @saffisara will make sure I only do the best for everyone - and I am sure we will all be in touch long into the future one way or another.

But what you have to appreciate is how much engagement you can create with just one post - so many comments and replies - the Steem community love you @dreemsteem and value your words - that is something nobody can take from you.

Anyway it’s getting dark in the UK so I’m going to lie in my back and watch out for fireflies

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You just honestly brought tears to my eyes.

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I do get a lot of good ideas while fishing😋

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I'm just going to crack on. I'm lucky to not be wholly invested in Steem and do not rely on it to pay bills. I enjoy a little writing time for some crypto in return. I do think though that authors should be paid the higher percentage based on those that just give a thumbs up.

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I'm so glad you have this option! Crack on if you can! I certainly can afford to crack on as well. I do not rely on my Steemit salary to live.

but that is not the point.

the point is - its wrong what they are doing. (in my opinion)

If they want to experiment, put that risk ACROSS THE WHOLE PLATFORM. not just the small accounts.

if they want to experiment, put that BENEFIT across the WHOLE platform. not just the large accounts.

I've been here a long time and I've seen a lot of good moves, and a lot of bad moves. But the bad moves have been so detrimental to the future of Steemit - that it honestly makes you beg the question..... why?

and just cuz you're here - i'm gonna go take a look at your writing! :) if at the very least - I get to read something new and cool - i would love to upvote you for bringing a smile to my face.

and guess what??? HF21 hasn't happened yet! so you'll get to keep 75% hehehehe

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It's a stereotypical thing for the English to 'carry on', much to our own disbenefit sometimes. Anyway, I am very much in agreement with you. Who wants to be paid less for the time they put in? But, will it bring in more curators? I have to admit, I have been on this for about a year now and it is starting to feel like a bit more of a lonely platform full of legacy accounts...

I'll cling onto my 75% (actually 60% as steempress take 15%), but that is another matter, more pertinent after HF21. Those that are organised and can do the system, make the money.

@dreemsteem, I really don't know if your decision of withdrawal is right or not. But in my opinion it will be great if you will travel with these changes to some extent to see more in depth picture of these changes and in my opinion when we live any situation we can see the true reality with more clarity and more crystal clearly.

Whatever your decision is, my good wishes are with you. Stay blessed.

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Thank you my friend .

Of course we all have a line that causes us to withdraw. For you - a 42% decrease in author rewards does not approach that line.

Perhaps for you - an 85% decrease in author rewards would be the place for you withdraw. I don't know.

For me - this is not about decreases in rewards really. It is about decreasing those rewards - and then TAKING THOSE FUND and DISPROPORTIONATELY placing them into the hands of the rich.

No one can deny that is happening. They will tell you that they have other reasons for doing it - they hope it helps steem.

but they can do the same decrease and HOLD those funds in a community account that supports the SPS.

will they do that? if not - you should ask yourself why.

If they can't be fair to the whole community - then this is not the place I will support. The end. It is that simple.

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Welcome and thank you so much for your insights and response. My good wishes are with you and have a blessed time ahead.

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@dreemsteem have you seen this post?
https://partiko.app/@steemitblog/hf21-addition-vote-window-change
There is more to it than just the vote

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yes - there is much more to HF21 than just the curations rewards - but that is the topic that bothered me the most, because of its grave effects on newbies. (just like on hf20 where there was a mass exodus of newbies and our platform became more and more silent.) This change does not do anything to negate the overall devastation of depleting author rewards by 42% and then doubling curation rewards (which are PENNIES for newbies, and thousands of steem for large accounts)

It's like saying you got a 42% demotion at work, but hey - they're gonna bring in free donuts on Friday to boost morale. LOL

ah well. lol i hope they bring enough donuts for everyone! hehehehe

I make so little now (joined last fall) that I can't imagine making even less. I will be forced to upvote not the little guys like me who I vote for now out of solidarity, but those whose posts make some serious money whether or not they deserve to. I'll be searching for money, not good content. I'm a bit worried I won't be able to stay on this site at all - it's already difficult to make a few pennies.

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that is EXACTLY what will happen.

We will all autovote big accounts. How is that a proper direction for manually curating good content?

It's not. It's a situation that will increase us sticking close to whales and their posts - just so we can receive more crumbs.

nah. no thank you.

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Unfortunately, that's the way of the world. I came to steem to try to find a way out of that.
Does anyone have a list of witnesses who oppose this? Maybe if we all switched up our witness votes lickety split?

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if I had a list - I would switch it in a heartbeat - just for the chance that it would make a difference!

70/30, anyone?

No. Simply let author post to decide the amount.

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I would totally love that!!! it was suggested above also...

and - my 70/30 suggestion was just in contrast to the RADICAL change of 75/25 to 50/50

i would actually prefer author decision - hands down!

I have to wonder if I was a whale or orca here, how I would feel. I already know the answer to that one. For the same reason that humans were wired to be parents, I would not be able to be greedy enough to feed myself the cream off the top without sharing equally with those under me.

I would like to believe that at one time, most of them were in this place. So what changed? Money isn't everything unless you don't have any. A concept that most of them have never encountered or if they did, don't remember.

I still believe in steemit, although, if they throw this in the toilet, I am not sure there will be a family left. Powering down was not in my thoughts, but, perhaps that is me being naive. I can only say that this whole thing makes me sad. How can they so easily corrupt the hand that fed them?

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I feel so much like you - but the last hard fork was especially hard on me, being a founder of a community of newbies that was absolutely THRIVING in the face of hardships, love, and never-ending commitment from a Welcome wagon staff that gave and gave and gave. After HF20 - we gave more and more - and watched as people left one at at time - feeling that this was not the place for them.

Prior to HF20 - you should have seen us - we were everywhere - learning, growing, spreading light and love and giggles - making this place better for everyone around us.

HF20 was short-sighted and had "well maybe this will work to prepare for the future" as its motto. (my words, not theirs)

and now its happening again. I just can't watch it all again. I can't watch more and more people leave. and you know what? Maybe will a new exodus - it will stabilize like they want. Maybe the people who stay will be the ones they want to stay - people who are ok to work harder for less, because they have nowhere else to go.

that has been the saddest comment that i've heard. "I would leave and take my whole community - but where else can we go?"

it's like they know they've got us over a barrel, and they're counting on loyalty and community to keep us here through hard times.

if the hard times were across the board - and we were all suffering together - i could stay. but we're not. the rich are high above the fray. making money while this "experiment" watches the lower accounts suffer.

If you can stay to try to make it better - oh i wish you the absolute best. I won't support this kind of mentality.

hugs to you! you were the first one ever to give me a tip from @tipu! hehehehe that was a gamechanger for me - and I thank you for that! :)

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I can't say either way at this point. I can wish and hope all I want, but, in the end, it will depend on what is left. I don't want to support that kind of mentality either. So, it isn't over til the fat lady sings.

I sit and watch. And pray for intervention.

Awwww! I am so glad to introduce you to tipu! It sure was a gamechanger for me and I still use it! It seemed out of place to use it here, but, heck! Why not?

!tip

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Hehehee we should just hide the fat lady singer.... Then it will never end 😜

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OMG! That is brilliant. Grab her. I want to see this!! :) And just tiny little interactions like this absolutely make my day and the best I can say is these people no longer experience the joy because the greed has crept in and stolen it all.

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I agree :)

It's what I loved about this place

❤️

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❤️ Great interaction you are spurring in this post! My hope is that it gets the attention it needs to! Good luck and if there is anything I can do to help in any way, just shout!

Or tip, whichever seems appropriate! LOL

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Hehhehehe tips are always fun!!! Lol

🤗

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🎁 Hi @dreemsteem! You have received 0.1 SBD tip from @dswigle!

@dswigle wrote lately about: And Then...There Was You Feel free to follow @dswigle if you like it :)

Sending tips with @tipU - how to guide :)

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Awwwww!!!!! My first and last!!!!! 😭🤗

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I am also whole heartedly against this hardfork. Not just the 50/50, but pretty much 100% of it. It's really frustrating, but I'm still hanging on and not powering down yet.

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Wishing you the best!!! 🙂

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Has anyone seen how much @freedom receives from bidbot earnings? Just that would make me doubt about the good intentions of hard fork 21.

Curation should be optional. I've already written about this a lot.

https://steemit.com/inflation/@edicted/let-s-fix-steem-by-drastically-modifying-inflation

https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@edicted/tip-jar-how-to-sidestep-steem-s-new-economic-incentives

https://steemit.com/busy/@edicted/war-on-curation

https://steemit.com/curation/@edicted/curation-and-sbd-are-broken

Long story short, curators aren't curating anything. The frontend is responsible for displaying all content to the user. Therefore, there exists a link from the frontend (curation) to the backend consensus layer that absolutely should be severed.

Frontends of Steem should have no effect on backend consensus. It's totally backwards to force "curation" on people.

I packed up and moved to Publish0x six months ago, as a newb to Steem, I quickly realised that I didn't like the platform, the founders or the road map. Not to mention, the reward system is so convoluted here!!

Rewards for creators, for free, on Publish0x, where you can earn from tipping creators too! Active, open devs who always are responsive to community feedback... No convoluted voting system! You can focus on your blog and not worry about Powering Up or getting votes...

The only thing I can see being the downside for those accustom to Steemit is that Publish0x is not it's own blockchain, so no dApps etc. - however Publish0x tips are largely based on ETH - therefore you can convert your earnings to ETH and go from there... they incorporate their tip tokens from different projects...

I just popped over to Steem to check it out any new news and make a cross post, but I write my posts first on Publish0x now - only my top earning posts will be cross-posted here after a month or so...

Anways, my purpose wasn't to come to Steem to shill or anything for Publish0x, but I moved there in a heartbeat and wondered why more people haven't made the switch... I am trying to get crypto projects I support to jump off Medium too..
So since I came across this post of yours, the topic just fit so well with my feelings I had to comment..

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I can understand your concerns. The straight up mathematics doesn't sound good for authors. The deciding factor will be people's behaviour. Will people (large stakeholders in particular) curate more content with higher curation rewards or will they continue vote selling, self-voting, and collusive voting? I guess we will find out soon enough. I recommend that you wait a few more months before leaving. Things could work out quite well.

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I have time until my power down will be complete (that I can begin when all my delegations are returned in 3 days)

However, I have faith in systems that treats people fairly .. and this proposal does not.

I've already explained how to make it more fair in the post, so I won't repeat it here lol... But that seems like a way to make the risk and benefit extend equally. And yet... That wasn't proposed.

Why should we rely on the masses to do "what's right" when the whole proposal is based on doing the greedy thing for investors/whales/orcas?

If we are hoping that human behavior will change for the better.... I would highly suggest that we don't count on that.

Everyone keeps saying that we should stick around to see if it's beneficial. You aren't the first and won't be the last...

But here is my point.

How can we trust them at all, even if it's temporarily beneficial...that they won't take more at that point! We can only look at their current behavior to determine that.

And that behavior points to greed that will continue, even when it puts the platform at risk.

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It is not that i do not agree with you, i do and i am sure that what you are saying will happen. Larger accounts will benefit and small account will lose. But i am thinking it for some time and in my opinion what is happening is that Steem is closing, not expanding. It is becoming a closed club of fewer people and of course people who invested in it.

For what purpose this is happening, i can only guess and imagine. Maybe big investors will find it more suitable, maybe they will use steem as a center to invest and delegate to future projects like Pal or games and stuff. I do not know.

Also about smaller accounts getting kicked out of Steem, this is happening for some time now with various methods, anti abuse projects, plagiarism hunting , bulling, i seen disturbing things at the art community where i am active.

It makes me sad because this was not what imagined the Steem experience will be but i am staying because invested my time and also found some people who i can communicate in deeper level. I believe also that this change will maybe bring sth new and interesting.

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correct.

and for what purpose? maybe they want this to happen.

and if you can stay and enjoy it - then i wish you all the best! I also felt that way for a very very long time. (i am approaching my 3rd Steemit birthday in a few months!!)

but - one can only take so much. Maybe you will have greater endurance for better times ahead! I certainly wish you all the fortune that is being promised through HF21!!!

:)

I don't know the details of this. but the gist isn't hard to perceive from what you've written. I support your ideas and I've resteemed your post.

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Thanks so much! it would so great if we could all get our voices loud enough to reach the ivory tower! lol

I've been busy powering up. Sadly I'm now making the decision to go the other way. Power down time. Ho hum.

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I feel your pain. After just becoming a dolphin after all that hard work???? I was hoping to enjoy that a little longer and enjoy dropping my dolphin votes all around the platform. lol

but... I suppose life takes us in lots of new directions.

     Today I have been somewhat hazy or inactive in Steem, for many adverse circumstances, but in spite of that I always try to enter and review the chain of blocks that I love so much. I am from Venezuela, since I started in Steem (ending 2017), my life and the way of seeing social networks change in 360 degrees, since here real human networks are made and a great sense of brotherhood ... so many things ... For some time time I listened and read about that change that was coming in a fenced future (50/50), at that moment I thought; "This will turn even more into that circle that generates a large amount of money that already exists", the accounts that have large amounts of money will continue to receive even more in their closed circle, and it is not that they judge the powerful accounts since we all have the ability to return our accounts very large, but what happens with those humble third world people that the little SP that has been built a lot of effort, commitment and passion with the platform, they will be affected and many. I also thought; "Wow, that update will lead to the recognition and appreciation of those people who love to read, enjoy and comment on the different publications they find." Then think that it is very difficult, because as every decision has its positive side and its negative side, many may affect them negatively while others positively, saying yes or no to this proposal today is as complicated as deciphering a result when raising, but in spite of all the circumstances that this generates, from my point of view this is more oriented to people with money (a lot of money) so that they continue to produce even more through voting, it is very important that the person who reads and recognizes our produced content is valued, since that denotes a great effort, but our content (many facts with so much love and affection) also need to be valued and I think a little more than the effort of the people who read it .


     Hoy en día he estado algo alhajado o inactivo en Steem, por muchas circunstancias adversas, pero a pesar de eso siempre trato de entrar y revisar la cadena de bloques que amo tanto. Soy de Venezuela, desde que inicie en Steem (finalizando 2017), mi vida y la forma de ver las redes sociales cambio en 360 grados, ya que acá se hacen verdaderas redes humanas y un gran sentido de hermandad… tantas cosas… Desde hace algún tiempo escuche y leí sobre ese cambio que se venía en un futuro cercado (50/50), en ese momento pensé; “esto va a convertir aún más en ese círculo que genera gran cantidad de dinero que ya existe”, las cuentas que tienen grandes cantidades de dinero seguirá recibiendo aún más en su círculo cerrado, y no es que juzgue las cuentas poderos ya que todos tenemos la capacidad de volver nuestras cuentas muy grandes, pero que pasa con esas personas humildes del tercer mundo que el poco SP que tiene ha sido construido mucho esfuerzo, compromiso y pasión con la plataforma, ellos se verán afectados y muchos. También pensé; “wow, esa actualización dará lugar al reconocimiento y valoración de esas personas que les encanta leer, disfrutar y comentar las distintas publicaciones que encuentra”. Entonces pensar que nos depara es muy difícil, ya que como toda decisión tiene su lado positivo y su lado negativo, muchos les podrán afectar negativamente mientras a otros de forma positiva, decir hoy un sí o no a esta propuesta es tan complicado como descifrar un resultado al alzar, pero a pesar de todas las circunstancias que esto genera, desde mi punto de vista esto se ve más orientado a la gente con dinero (mucho dinero) para que sigan produciendo aún más a través de votaciones, es muy importante que la persona que lea y reconozca nuestro contenido producido sea valorada, ya que eso denota un gran esfuerzo, pero nuestros contenidos (muchos hechos con tanto amor y cariño) también requieren ser valorados y pienso que un poco más que el esfuerzo de las personas que lo lee.

Congratulations @dreemsteem!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:

  • Comments - Ranked 1 with 203 comments

It's hard for me to add comments on the math of it all since I am still so new.

But there's this. It's already hard enough to convince friends to come over as it is. Seems like the pennies a post will become micro-pennies.

In that scenario, I can't imagine the selling point of putting up with the learning curve to groove oneself into using steem.

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The math is solid. No one denies it.

The factor that everyone is not sure of is... human behavior.

Will people post more to work harder to get those rewards? Will abuse still happen? Will it increase, decrease? Will all of these changes make steem more valuable or less valuable.

But the bottom line is - before ANYthing starts to adjust... the funds will be coming FROM small accounts and going TO large accounts in this experiment. So - if it fails or succeeds - the large accounts win - no matter what.

Also - the people voting on this are set to be in that group of "winning"

So... if it turns into something bad - how long do you think it will take to correct it? When large accounts have doubled their curation rewards? In the chart I did in the post before this (and I even added your name to the chart so you could see!) the highest "win" went from 3000SP a month in curation rewards to 6000 SP a month.

And that is not even the biggest account.

ah well. As long as people allow it to happen - it will. I bank on human behavior continuing to do what's best for them.

It's the least common denominator. so... good luck to us all.

Do you remember our conversation last year in May (way before HF20) where I explained why I was leaving? I saw this type of thing coming and assure you that I take no pleasure in being correct, but this is just another example that shows I'm pretty good at reading between the lines.

My main point last year was that Steem is actually a Centralized Oligarchy modelled after the failed, nonrepresentative American Political System and would not be sustainable calling itself Decentralized.

Ned has pretty much retained full control over it's progress and as @crimsonclad mentioned in your last post on the topic that she may vote yes in HF21 to retain some of her big votes...

How is that Decentralized?

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Well, Crimi has to date been active in lots of communities, mostly in one, but definitely "everywhere she can jump in and be of some assistance" (quoting myself there from a conversation about her and Jeff)

She is somewhat blunt at times, but has a heart of gold when it comes to communicating with people and she has never to date from what I know, in any way done anything to harm anyone.

So yeah, Crimi said it as it is. Nothing wrong with that. I fully support it, no matter how anyone wants to read it.

PS. While Crimi and Jeff were investing their hard earned fiat into Steem, they were nowhere near the top20 and since they have made it up there, I don't recall anything being done without her trying to do her best to communicate about it. Likewise, all I see is them putting in even more time and money, probably some from the earnings made as a top20, but definitely more than that most of the time. What they do for PAL and for Steemchat along with all the other things they support and pitch into IS NOT CHEAP!

Her and I may not necessarily agree on "everything" but hell, I swear, when I see anything about that team, Crimi and Jef, I usually walk away from the computer, because if I don't, then this type of comment is written and it gets read the wrong way as everyone is way toooo emotional about BS out there.

NHF man, just had to say my piece on this.

Cheers.

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I completely love that you took the time to make this comment, because you didn't have to and the time and the appreciation is love. I saw the mention above and didn't even bother responding to it because my words are in publicly searchable discords and on the blockchain and the statement is absurdist. However, you too took it at face value, so on that front I agree that I'll have to continue communicating to make sure people speaking louder than me don't result in speaking for me. You can follow the full discussion from here.

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So what you said was 'misinterpreted'.

Easy for anyone to do when temperatures are hotter than hell.

I responded as soon as I read it and no matter how anyone reads what you say, you say it as you see it and you can only be responsible for what you say not what others understand.

PS. Just came back to the computer, had to step away after that comment.

Cheers.

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It's fair. He has the belief that I feel a certain way, and I have agreed below that through that lens my words earlier weren't clear enough. I've marked a small edit simply because everyone is heated (please be careful not to suggest he is emotional, though!) but still am happily convinced that the things I say publicly are the "source" and anyone can get out there and research them. I'm having a bit of a day myself, lol.

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i agree - @crimsonclad has been one of my favorite top witnesses BECAUSE SHE COMES. she joins. she speaks.

she is free to have all her own opinions - just like the rest of us.

I see where @notconvinced read that - but, he hasn't been here for a while (since the last hard fork) and doesn't see how much @crimsonclad DOES support the blockchain on many shows, posts and through her own time

Here is the thing that I want everyone to remember.

so many of us do that. SO MANY of us give and give and give until it hurts. This is not exclusive to witnesses. this is across the platform.

the reason why this is an emotional (and yes - we can all be emotional - we are not robots!) topic is because we are concerned for what is best for steem.

that is our common ground.

however - i think we can admit that some people are more concerned for a better ROI and those people may in fact have much more voice, much more money, and much more power.

That would make Steemit... JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD.

Let's just call it out and address it instead of sugar-coating it with experiments that we hope will save steem, when in fact - it starts off by hurting a lot of people, and fattening the wallets of the people who are voting on it, PLUS other large accounts.

That is fact. That is conflict of interest. and there is no way around it

It doesn't matter where everyone's hope lies. the facts show what will happen FIRST before anything else changes. whales will earn lots and lots of money taken DIRECTLY from all of the content creators.

that is wrong.

if you want to see what happens with a 33% cut in author rewards - do it in a FAIR way.

take that 33% and put it into a community fund for the SPS.

then you can eliminate your conflict of interest.

EVERYONE hurts across the board if it fails. not just the little guy. EVERYONE has skin in this "experiment" NOT just the little guy.

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Please don't make false statements. Where did crimosnclad say she would vote yes to retain large votes? I guarantee you she has never said that as she is the exact opposite and works very hard to represent every single person on this blockchain big or small

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Right here," I can't tell you what you want to hear to try to play all sides and sway the voice of the people as a Robin Hood figure- which is that without a doubt I will vote no. _I can't tell you that I will without a doubt vote yes, to try to "keep some big votes"* because the entity that many believe is slipping dollar bills in my pocket quite frankly knows nothing about my existence other than that I and my partner are great witnesses and heavily contribute to the security of the Steem blockchain (and maybe not even that ¯(ツ)/¯ "

You might want to follow your own advice. She doesnt assure us either way...and may do so? She didn't say that wouldn't be the case.

It's the 9th paragraph on her first reply on this post- https://steemit.com/hardfork/@dreemsteem/now-you-can-see-the-numbers#@crimsonclad/pttfbj

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I actually agree with you on this one simply by dint of the fact that you've been hoping to find a quote that illustrates what you believe I think versus what I do. Rereading where I present why I will not vote no OR yes to satisfy ANYONE by juxtaposing two opposing statements, I can see where someone who believes that I am "Pro EIP" could read this in the way you have. Since I've clearly stated I am not and the context of the comment and all other stances I've ever taken support that, I'll happily edit this statement to be a little bit more clear so that those who are having trouble following are more readily able to understand.

I can't tell you what you want to hear to try to play all sides and sway the voice of the people as a Robin Hood figure- which is that without a doubt I will vote no. I can't tell you that I will without a doubt vote yes, even [<-edit] to try to "keep some big votes"...[<-edit] because the entity that many believe is slipping dollar bills in my pocket quite frankly knows nothing about my existence other than that I and my partner are great witnesses and heavily contribute to the security of the Steem blockchain (and maybe not even that ¯(ツ)/¯ )

I don't promise to vote either way to make anyone happy, and frankly this is more an acknowledgement that no matter what I do for my own beliefs people will be pissed. 😂 I then go on to say that that's all moot because the testnet has been broken for a week and if I can't run this code prior then it's a default no anyways.

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You've been clear by saying you " are for it, but not now..."

As for trying to understand your point, other than above, you have gone back and forth so often in your comments, it's impossible to hold you down to a specific.

The problem is that your lengthy comments are filled with more filler than substance, which opens you up to misunderstandings, because of the fluff AND the higher likelyhood of ill wording or type-o's.

In the end, I'm not huge Steemit supporter and really don't care, but do like to be informed and call out inconsistencies where I see them.

There has been no shortage of inconsistencies on this topic across the board, including from you.

Except in @dreemsteem's message, which is backed up better than anyone's statement for these upgrades.

I think it's time to listen to the little guy, because the 'fixes' from the big guys from the last 18 month's have not worked and it's pretty clear to me, just using common sense, this won't either.

I was coming back to Steemit after leaving for 14 month's, but that probably won't happen now. Now multiply my choice by an exponential factor. Redfish are the majority and the bottom line is, this won't benefit us at all...Hurt the majority and your platform will only be left with the minority.

That math doesn't equal success.

Posted using Partiko Android

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I know what you said. LOL but i still have hope. call me idealistic, but damnit!!! LOL i don't want my home to burn.

since you've left -ned is no longer at the helm.

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Lol, I think it's time for you to check out a few vacation Villa's...

Posted using Partiko Android

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it would be so nice to not have to.

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And THATS exactly how I feel 😊 this is my home and you guys make my days. I belive in hope and I know that together we can change things... With heart.. Not power.
First step to MAKE a change is to BE The change!
Do things differently... Opposite of what we know doesnt work ❤️

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I hope that they will change. I fear that money is the thing that speaks the loudest :(

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Its enogh of that in The world and if this place becomes like that... Then I still have a home... @thealliace and you guys that has become my family and changed my life. Look at how much we have grown together and are a tight community.... Without you guys I might loose hope but you give hope.
That is a force that cant be broken if we Stay United. 🤗❤️🤗

I really hope this turn out for the best for us all and that one voice is worth listning to and can make a difference❤️

I love You Leah soo much 😘 you are one of The most amazing warm hearted persons I ever known, and brings so much smiles and joy to sooo many People.... ME INCLUDED!
You make my life so much richer in more ways than you realize 🤗😘😍💞

Posted using Partiko Android

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hehehehe you know how much i love these images!!!

we are beyond steemit :) we are true friends outside the chain

for that - i'll always be grateful!

i love you Sara

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YES WE ARE ❤️
True friends and nothing can break us apart.
We are forever connected and Im blessed having you in my life. I looove that. 💞

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I like you have The same spirit, always belived in good and never loose The hope... Optimist and seing a Light in all darkness. I still have hope but it breaks my heart to se The People I love hurtig and loose hope... I wish I could HUG YOU guys and ease things.
Just know... You NEVER ALONE! ❤️

Posted using Partiko Android

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never alone <3

not with my Sass right here! hehehehehe

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True dat 😉❤️ I am right behind you always my sweet Leah 😘 and beside you and wherever you want me to be... Lol

Posted using Partiko Android

Before HF21 my incentive for spending much time on quality posts for Steem was very low. This has to do with a lot of factors, including that my audience isn't here and that those I've tried to onboard either don't get the Steem platform or get discouraged quickly. Usability and an impoverished markdown system also makes technical posts rather difficult. When I really put a lot of effort into a post (sometimes days) and happened to pick up a big group of curators, I sometimes got a decent payout, though way below minimum wage. If I actually got decent engagement and discussion, that would be ok, but the audience for technical posts is not on steemit. They are on twitter, github, medium, etc. After I while I realized that it was best to spend as little time as possible on Steem posts--a very simple post might not make much, but it also doesn't cost much to do, so RTI is better. The message from HF21 is clear: spend even less time on quality posts. I could be wrong, but my guess is that those with large stakes will figure out how to game HF21 to keep things as close to business as usual as possible. So what should we have instead? How about one account per human with all human posting and curation? All votes worth the same, but those with larger stakes can vote on more posts? The current system devalues users who don't have large stakes when we should be rewarding smart users (authors and providers) instead.

Proud member of #powerhousecreatives

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Hearing your frustration (and seeing that you are someone that did try!!!) ....it's all too familiar to me

I really wish that the people voting would HEAR what it's like to start out here. It was very hard for me in 2016, but I feel it's SO much harder for you newbies now!!!

Without people to come around you from.the beginning...you have so little chance.

And i see that you're a part of a community and still struggling

What does that say about our system?

But...what can we do? Maybe it's the end of the road.. or maybe these changes will shake things up.

I believe that no matter what happens, the system STILL has a very poor view of newbies and does everything in their power to leave them high and dry...

That's not a system that I want to be a part of anymore.

If I stayed, you are the type of person I would come stand beside! ☺️ It was my absolute joy to be a helping hand. But now? I feel i would be giving newbies a false sense of hope.

Maybe I'm wrong.

How wonderful it would be to be wrong about this.

If you do stay..and you do need another helping community, I would highly recommend you meet @shadowspub and join her Ramble discord.

So many good souls in there. She is my mentor and friend and will do her best to encourage you if you're willing to keep trying.

I'll still be around for a few days... Come say hi if you need anything.

For the first time in months, I've been thinking about powering down myself. Not because I will earn less - I couldn't care less - but because this platform will sign its own death penalty if they push true HF21...

@dreemsteem I am going to come back and read this properly tomorrow. It's 17h30 here and we are about to go out. In the meantime...onward and upward. I hope...

Posted using Partiko Android

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or - downward and outward.

that is always a very real possibility. certainly was for thousands after HF20

I will hope for the best, and prepare for not being heard.

Absolutely agree with everything you have said here @dreemsteem It hurts that the hard workers that spend somtimes lots of hours on a post to see them getting less and less just questions is there any point in posting damaging the hard workers. Unfortunately people go mad with power and money talks

Posted using Partiko iOS

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Holy truth, Batman!

(sorry - lol - i had to! hehehe)

at the very least - i can say i spoke my heart to the bitter end. I so appreciate all the people who are here - commenting - letting their voices be heard - even if we are just a little squeak.

i hear ya :) doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things - but it matters to me!