We Double Our Steem Power Upvoting Ourselves Every 181 Days!

3년 전

self upvoting hard fork 20.png

Will hard fork 20 limit the ability to self upvote because of the data shown here? Definitely because every Steemit user with at least $100 in Steem Power after hard fork 19 can now upvote their own posts enough to double their Steem Power in 181 days or less!

What is the big motivation to avoid doing this? Happiness. While it feels good to give to others, voting our own posts up repeatedly brings a feeling of greed, selfishness, and being alone based on my experience already doing this during the first few days I joined. Today I choose not to pay myself $1,600 in my own upvotes every 5 days which I could easily do in about an hour of time every day. Given the temptation, I understand if anyone does want to simply vote their own comments up because of the data shown below.

What about inflation?
The numbers I share are based on today's voting power and actual inflation because all the rewards produced come from inflation and because most Steem Power is not used for voting! The more voting power used, the less each vote is worth meaning that if every single user only upvoted themselves, we each would receive an interest payout equal to our Steem Power at the current inflation rate. When considering the SBD conversion rate which effectively adds 20% or more to every reward payout at 50/50, the amount of rewards are actually higher than what I show here. As more whales get excited with the ability to vote comments up for $5, $20, and $100+, the value of voting power is likely to continue to drop and get focused at the top more meaning that it will take longer realistically than 180 days to double money with no change!

To show how this works in detail, let's start with my account which is currently worth $83,459.76 because of your generosity here in voting my posts up and the profits from selling my Dash masternode just days before the value went up $100,000!

In 181 days just by voting my own posts up and the laws of compound interest because of getting my own rewards and therefore a higher vote, I could double my account value to over $166,000 without one other user giving me even one vote. See for yourself based on using this spreadsheet which shows me burning all of my voting power every five days on my own comments.

steemit ending self vote day 1 first votes to day 6.png

You see after just six days, I already have an extra of almost $1 on my 100% vote with an account value up $1648 from 5 days earlier. Technically you might argue I need to stretch the days to seven because that is how long it takes to get the rewards and while you would be right, there is also the SBD extra payout when converted to Steem plus Steem Power interest to consider. In other words, my example here is conservative and realistically would happen much faster.

Keep it going and ...

first month of upvoting.png

double money in 181 days.png

In 181 days roughly with no Steem price increase and counting only my own self upvotes, I will have double the amount of Steem Power as I did before. Just for fun, let's say this went on for longer ...

10x in a year and a half.png

In less than two years, I would have 10x what I started with just upvoting myself. In less than three, $86,000 becomes over $2 million with only self upvotes. Think this just works for whales? How about starting with $100? Same result! Less than $100 might get the payouts so small they would be rounded out. If you figure in the SBD are worth more than a $1 and all those are reinvested, this actually is possible way faster than in the example I used because SBD effectively increase the payout of each vote around 20% to 40%. If you figure in taxes, it might take a bit longer unless you opted for some sleepless nights of worrying about an audit.

Long story short, until there is a change users can just literally power themselves up providing a huge temptation for whales and dolphins alike plus adding a huge incentive to invest in Steem Power right now while this is possible for those purely seeking to make some money without any regard for the community. While this might not include many of us, just a few users doing this strategy especially whales will reduce payouts for everyone else across Steemit and make us all look like we need a shower.

Fortunately there are a few simple solutions to this available for us to implement in hard fork 20 which is one of my main motivations for this post with a secondary motivation being that because I am not going for the self upvoting strategy, this is the only way I can double my Steem Power and feel good about it!

  1. Limit the number of user upvotes total per day. 4 is probably plenty because that would still allow me to make $130 upvoting my own posts every day with payouts increasing daily after the first seven days. This change would reduce my possible self upvoting gain by 60% meaning it would take more than a year voting up 4 of my own posts every day to double my Steem Power
  2. Provide a lower value vote on our own posts and comments automatically such as maybe 10% or 20% with a reduction in voting power used also. Combine this with the first strategy for maximum effectiveness such as reducing voting power on my own upvotes with each upvote I use daily. My first post might be 100%, the second 90%, etc until after 10 upvotes on my own posts per day, I could only vote at 10% of my available voting power on my own posts.
  3. Remove the ability to upvote comments which are much easier to spam and upvote than posts. As things are, I could probably do 60 comments in thirty minutes a day without getting flagged on 99% of them which would earn me $1,600 every five days in self upvotes. Tempting ... removing comment self upvotes would also help any user have a better shot at the highest reward. Spamming 60 posts a day to maximum upvotes would be significantly more difficult even without any other changes.

Thank you for reading this because I hope it was helpful in giving us the ability to continue adapting Steemit to provide the greatest value to the world!

Nerd alert! To calculate these numbers, I made a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet using the fields shown where the account value is pasted in to start and multiplied to calculate the value of the vote based on my current 100% vote being worth 1/2486 of my Steem Power. I then multiply by the voting % and simulate spending the majority of my voting power every five days. After five days, the reward from the previous posts is added and the cycle runs again on the new account value. Copy and paste down a few thousand rows and add 5 days every time the vote is up to 100% again and you get the numbers seen here. Change the account value and the numbers match.

Answers to questions!

  1. What about inflation? The inflation of Steem is built into my example and is responsible for this possibility because I calculated the current ratio of Steem Power to upvoting earnings which is all based on the new Steem being paid out at rates it is actually paying today. If more Steem is powered up or powered down or the amount of voting power used changes, then the numbers would change. The fact is I can pay myself $400 USD a day every day just voting my own posts up out of the inflation! Currently the majority of Steem Power is not used to vote meaning those voting can easily assign themselves a significant portion of the voting pool. So far I have not done this and I would be happy to demonstrate if anyone has doubts!
  2. Earn more by voting down to 80% each day? Yes and I will be starting to vote in the 70% to 95% range most days now because yes this pays more than voting to nearly 0% and then waiting for voting power to come back up!
  3. Is less regulation better? In theory yes but practically it will only take a small amount of users upvoting their own comments and earning Steem Power and SBD from those votes to significantly reduce all earnings available to other authors. While it is nice to be able to pay ourselves back, should it be possible for me to pay myself $400 a day upvoting my own comments or should this be limited?

If you think it is important we take action on the data here and make changes which limit the ability of users to double Steem Power just upvoting themselves, would you please upvote this because it will help the message be shared widely in our community?

Love,
Jerry Banfield

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Sort Order:  trending

Jerry if steem inflation is limited to 9.5% then your post is missing that concept. Either the payouts of everyone drop as the system tightens back due to voting... OR you are spending other people's votes who are inactive thus enabling you to do that. And if people are going to be inactive, they lose out. But 9.5% is the rate of steem creation, doesn't much matter how it affects individual accounts. Before Hard Fork 19, I am just convinced the large whales got all the extra $$ and now it's just being spread out more broadly to smaller whales and others. Also, imagine, a lot of this steem never makes it on steemit... speculators on bittrex and poloniex are holding it. We're spending their votes... as it should be since we're the only reason the STEEM their holding has any value.

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Basically, we're the people in on the ground floor of steem. That's why it's paying so well.

EDIT: About 60 million Steem is not powered up. This is about 25% of the total supply. Also, if Steemd.com were fully operational, we could look at active user accounts. Last I looked, there is about 50k accounts active in the last 30 days. 50k people spending 45 million per year, most if it spent by the top accounts.

I think the simplest change would be to just make a greed bot to monitor the heavy abusers of upvoting yourself. Then steemcleaners and others can swoop in and we can start flagging those people. Begin with warning that they're approaching the greed threshold and there you go, they'll back off.

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I agree, we're also the ones holding all of our funds in steempower which helps to hold steem up, and the more you have on the line (the more you risk) the more you can potentially be rewarded, as it should be. I do vote for my own comments, not all the time though, and specifically reserve vp for others with less SP, who provide great original content, and who I interact with. If I'm blessed enough to double or triple SP, that means more for others as well. In fact, I plan and hope to shift more to others once I have more to give. Just like in real life :)

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Why can you vote up yourself to begin with? Does this make sense? Could be just disabled...

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Interesting point made by coinlend! Anyone else with a opinion?

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It's a vicious cycle. If they disabled upvoting yourself, abusers would just create new accounts to vote for them. Then when you police having multiple accounts, abusers will collude with others to create accounts upvote you and split the profits.

There is big money at stake. 1000s of dollars may not be much to you, but think of what it means to people in poor countries. Whales buy steem power and create sweat shops where the poor work 16 hours a day upvoting the whale and in return get paid pennies and die young. Allowing upvoting of yourself may not prevent sweat shops, but at least there is not much point in creating sweat shops when you can just upvote yourself.

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That's a good point... I guess you also could just implement a bot who does the upvoting automatically. Even cheaper than sweat shops....

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Jeez, putting all those starving peasants out of work, You reallly are a skinflint.

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Had not thought of that, but you're right. Upvoting yourself is a great solution to people exploiting others.

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Doesn't make sense to disable. What would be the point to invest in Steem, if you can't push your articles higher up?
Upvoting comments is also important to get higher up from the crowd.
I only agree of reducing the payouts when upvoting your own comments.
Also, the idea that @crypto-investor mentioned building a penalty bot is really horrible, it's far better to just fix the platform.

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  ·  3년 전

First off, I believe just putting in the time to create any type of content (good or bad) deserves some sort of value. Who best to give that value than the person who did the work on the content. That said, instead of disabling, content creators should be incentivized by the system automatically upon putting something up in Steemit and the diminishing returns would take care of the spam. Actually, since not everyone can put up content consistently, the feature to put all your voting power into one Upvote is really important if you believe what you created, say for this month, really deserves it. Further incentives are then given by the community who finds the content 'valuable'.

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i join this community not quite long and until this moment i can't figure out how this upvote stuff really work. the post this comment are really helpful.

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The technical aspects of Steemit are difficult, to say the least. Fortunately, the community was designed so you don't have to be a programmer. However, it is always good to know what you are doing. Here is an article that explains curation (voting) in detail. I hope it helps...

https://steemit.com/steemit/@calamus056/curation-rewards-explained-in-great-detail

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I guess both approaches would help. Who is actually deciding about the new coming or canceling rules? I have seen somewhere something about voting. Please could you clarify this for me. I quite sure we will need both to do. Change the rules (no voting for yourself) and bots which would actually look for selfvoting but using different acounts for that. Because I guess it is also happening.

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I don't think it's that serious. We have to stop being so anal. Hell, you're able to upvote and like yourselves on other platforms, just make it so that your upvote value means less. But when we start flagging people ang getting super anal for stupid shit, you potentially chase people away from the platform. This is a trend I keep noticing withing the crypto community, especially when dealing with faucets...All these damned guard dogs guarding the chatrooms and what not. It's ridiculous. Crypto currency is for the people that want to unplug from the system. Yet we become the system in a sense when we keep trying to safe guard petty shit.

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I completely agree with you. I do up vote my own posts, but I also up vote other peoples posts. It's kind of like spending hours making a nice meal for your family and then sitting down to enjoy it with them.

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It definitely does scare some people away, especially when you're trying to INTRODUCE new members to the crypto-sphere and they see stuff like that.

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Thats what I think, too.

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I agree, anal is the right word.

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100% agreed. We turn ourselves into our own high level security to 'protect' other people, same way all dictatorships are built. If someone is making money I think that can be good marketing to bring others to the platform. Everyone needs to stop thinking so small and defensive. The point of blockchain etc is to break away from these systems of rules. I don't quite understand all the technicalities in this post, but I can sense the 'spirit' in which they're written.
Let free markets works. People will identify where other people have found gaps in the system and vacuums will be filled.

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I agree with thebidea of bots scanning for excess self voting. I'm aware I did it a little here the past few days and it's not the way to use the platform. I wouldn't consider myself a minnow even at this point, however carrying a 2100 Power Up balance gives me some nice funds to contribute to the community. I want to share and earn like most in a way thats fosters creativity and encourages posting of good content. Im not a big writer and rarely have time to curate. Any suggestions on my scenario?
Thanks in advance.

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@crypto-investor But flagging abusers is wasting voting power that could have rewarded amazing content. It's a mess right now. Something needs to be changed in the protocol so 100% of the users will get rewarded for correcting curation mistakes/abuse so it's an autonomous system that doesn't require external initiatives.

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So... with 3 whopping posts under my newb-belt here on Steemit. Am I spinning my wheels?

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Def not, keep at it!

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No, just growing pains. Stick around, post good content. You will be glad you did.

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A bit discouraging for a new minnow who just spent ten hours in the learning curve and creating my Introduction page, posting it, and watching it disappear into the background noise. I did earn an entire $0.05, so all was not lost. Keep on truckin'!

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My intro post earned $0.27 five months... and my best paying post this week earned more than $100! It takes time and effort to earn those rewards, but you can get there. Keep at it

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Thank you for the encouragement! Learning more always helps!

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No and here is and upvote to prove it.

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And we are making history!

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Nice solution, the best I've heard in fact.

Cg

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I am glad that Jerry brought up this important aspect of Steemit and your analyzis with the numbers👍🏼
It is great to learn from Jerry and you to get the bigger picture how Steemit works and to understand strengths and weaknesses of the platform. Glad to be your folllower!

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Great video and comment ...new I understand how its work steem power

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I think steemcleaners is a separate app run by people in the community. A hard fork would be built into the system and wouldn't rely on a community based action that may or may not stay in place based long term. Right? Or am I off here?

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This is great information for a newbie like me to know. When voting I wasn't sure do use 50% 80% hundred percent. I like the idea of voting between 70 and 95% and obviously not uploading all your own stuff. I guess it's a delicate balance

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hi everyone i thought i would show these figures of how steemit is stealing traffic from reddit
https://steemit.com/steemit/@newmarket65/steemit-is-stealing-traffic-from-reddit
follow me and i will follow you

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The inflation of Steem is built into my example because I calculated the current ratio of Steem Power to upvoting earnings which is all based on the new Steem being paid out at rates it is actually paying today. If more Steem is powered up or the amount of voting power used changes, then the numbers would change. The fact is I can pay myself $400 a day every day just voting my own posts up like I just did with this comment to highlight the point! So far I have not done this and I would be happy to demonstrate if anyone has doubts!

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I bet you would be happy to demonstrate haha. Just do what makes you happy instead. We don't need a depressed Jerry because he couldn't spread the love.

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tell me please I have about 80 steem power, and 40 steem dollar, is it good if I convert all my steem dollars into steem power ?

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Yes I would try to build up as much STEEMPOWER as you can. The real leverage comes from the influence your vote gets from your STEEMPOWER.

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Is the community going to do something about Steem inflation? It seems to me that upvote oneself will only hurt the value of the upvote.

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I'm sure the system will change but as of right now if someone put in say 100 dollars it could potentially be worth 300 in around a year just by up voting your own posts? Sounds very interesting.

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In addition, such a selfish behaviour can be prevented by flagging. The best strategy for steemit is gaining social contacts and from there support for your posts.
If self voting would be forbidden I could search a partner account with nearly the same VP and we could vote us vice versa. Let's play the game in a fair and social way.
And I do not vote this comment :-)

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This is an open system and people should be able to do whatever they want with their vote/money. Yes the system is better and grows if we spread it around but that should be the individuals choice not what others believe you should do with your vote.

There alot of people coming on the platform from developing nations maybe living off of $1 a day. Who are we to dictate to them how they should spend their votes/money? Everyone's situation is different and we have no idea if someone needs to upvote their own content to pay rent or buy food.

I myself upvote my own comments and post. I have invested over $20k on this platform, thanks to @jerrybanfield 1st video about it. I plan on investing much more if I can get a reasonable ROI. If I had to depend solely on upvotes from the community I would reconsider the value of STEEMIT to me.

I'm just saying.

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Good points!

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You are absolutely right bro. well said.

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This system is also keeping people busy on steemit posting and commenting regularly

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Iam happy with this info crypto-investor thank you i will resteem this one.

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great video

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Good video cypto-investor

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interesting. thanks. not worried about inflation of steem anymore.

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I've been wondering myself, thanks!

I am upvoting at 1:1 and feel like it is a good long term solution; every time I upvote myself I upvote some else's post. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

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Like wise.

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Same bro

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I'm doing this now

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Same.

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you didn't vote me up :[

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Lol I gotcha! :]

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I want to live in a world where it pays more to upvote others.

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I do the same, trying to keep it a little fair :)

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I upvoted all of you even if i have low power -_-

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Same here.. I always do 1:1
Let's share the love.. :)

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That's nice that you think of others and upvote for members.

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I think balance is an amazing thing! Karma is always watching!

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Everything is possible what the rules allow. I gave you my upvote and I don't vote my comment.

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I read somewhere that when you upvote yourself on another post, half of the rewards go to the op. Is this current, or was updated in a previous hf?

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Sounds fair. I'm going to do that now! :)

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good point

What's nice about steem is these decisions will be made by the community and not by a centralized power. I'll support whatever the community decides, but I'm also in favor of keeping restrictions to a minimum.

Upvoting ONLY yourself is not good I think, but I do it to keep my comment in the top to make it more visible. By buying SP, what cost me real money and gave the Steemit platform the ability to pay content creators (without investors no value for Steem), I earned the privilege to do this. Further there are no big advantages of holding a lot of SP. Of course I will up vote the post where I made a comment in too.

Also there is an incentive to create a quality comment, because you can up vote yourself only a few times a day and if you use these for posting bullshit, nobody else will up vote you and the extra visibility will not give you anything. I remark on myself, that now I have the chance to rank high in the comments, I put way more effort in the comments I place.

I think the investors are the only real risk takers on Steemit and have to be rewarded too. The inflation of Steem is way to high for me to just invest in it, but the fact that SP gives me the advantage to make my comments / posts more visible, I see it as a good investment. Only curation will not give me the satisfaction I invested for.

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  ·  3년 전

Yes, that is why I do it too. Also I think that self voting should not be eliminated but instead make it so to have less effect on those with bigger steam power only. Otherwise, minnows like me will never survive and our posts will never get noticed.

Interesting idea. Upvote your own comments. I'll have to give that a try; thanks for sharing your ideas with us. I don't know what is best for the community; I want what is best for me, the community, and new members, so steemit will continue to grow.

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::LOL:: Gave you an upvote to see haw it works! ;)

I thing the basis of your post is right but the numbers I think are wrong. Unless the yearly Steem inflation isn't around 9,5% which I doubt.

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@teamsteem thank you for asking about inflation here because you motivated me to edit the post and address this at the beginning! If every single user only upvoted themselves, we each would receive an interest payout equal to our Steem Power at the current inflation rate. What I show is possible here because about 80% to 95% of voting power is not used although it seems to be consistently increasing as more of us see how much we can pay ourselves! If in a month, each of our votes is worth less because more voting power is used, then it will take longer to vote our own posts up. If the amount of voting power used drops, it will happen faster. Technically my example is conservative because it does not include curation rewards and SBD's conversion rate. I believe going all out on this system would actually double money in maybe 100 to 150 days at the current voting power. Realistically more whales are already spending a significant amount of voting power paying themselves out which will reduce everyone's effectiveness in all votes and generate huge payouts for whales while increasing the amount of days it takes to double money.

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I feel that you're right Jerry. With HF19 whales and dolphins like myself have the ability to abuse the power if they want, but in order to bring up the community we need to share that love (SP) to others with UpVoting comments and posts of your humble following. However, I think the 4 UpVotes a day is too slim. The reason I say 4 is slim is that because in order to be more interactive with our steemians that will limit the love that we share to the community. Anyways, just my thoughts, and great article and hard work put into your post. Cheers.
Mark

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This post and comment is top notch information.

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The explanation seems to be that when people self-upvote they reduce the remaining reward pool for the "normal" curators. The inflation never changes, only the remaining reward pool does. I hope i understood this right.

It's a huge problem nevertheless!

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My question is how the numbers change with the growth we are seeing. What does it look like when you have an additional 500k or 1 million active users on the platform? Because I think we are going to see that in 6 months.

I am looking quite some time for a exact description of re-building voting power algorithm vs time, and no luck.
What I understand is this:
If I exhaust my voting power ( by intensive voting, 100 sequential upvotes in short time) down to only 13.26%, it will take a stunning 266 hours (11+ days) to rebuild again back to 100% (provided no more votes done in these 266 h).

Am I right?
Or, how exactly it should be calculated?

The moral of the story:
mortgage your house, sell your car, power up on some steem and start making some sweet sweet money😈

Heck you can even start your own hedge fund and start leveraging on these sweet upvotes. You can almost have 4x return on your money in a year😨

It's even better than most ponzi scheme out there.

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Your comment is hilarious and of course it gives me something to think about. So, as you say investing in Steem power is actually a good decition to take I guess.

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I think the Devs would do something to discourage this type of behavior in the future 😀

I really think that investing in steem would be a good investment for any increase in voting power would help good content to be more visible to everyone.

This in turn would help attract new users on the site and help the community grow in the long run

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nice photo

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When you copy/paste or repeatedly type the same comments you could be mistaken for a bot.

Tips to avoid being flagged

Thank You! ⚜

@jerrybanfield, your strategy is not optimal.

Instead of upvoting every 5 days, you should upvote every day 11 times.
Your voting power would go from 100% down to 80% and will be back to 100% the next day.

The first day, you will get $361.35. And for 5 days, you will get $1806.75.
That is better that $1681.03.

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You're right and I am going to switch to this going forward!

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Followed you!

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It seems to me that everyone here is trying to game the algorithm to maximize their payout. What's the point of creating a system which doesn't provide inherent value to users?

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We are not trying to "game the algorithm", but we are showing how that could be done.

If you see someone making money by upvoting thier own comments. Then you can upvote them too and get a percentage of the payout. :)

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How does that work?

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Good point ! Thanks for sharing.. :)

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Ofcorse we can get 25% share of our upvote and if that post is going to make very good money then we might get good share as well.

Along the same point, has anyone noticed a 100% vote pays out LESS today than it was yesterday? for me it went from $5.10 to $4.51. Anyone know why?

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It is all based on the current market rate of steem. Steem went down today, hence the drop in value! Actually, it is real cool the way it works if the price goes up. Your upvote is worth about 2.25 steem, so if the price was 10 bucks you would have a $22.25 upvote!

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More agressive voting is draining the rewards pool + token price drop

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I've also noticed a decrease

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Decrease because of the average price of the steem varies... some weeks decrease, and some other weeks it increase, y remember one post increased 10$ one time without getting any new vote...

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  ·  3년 전

Yes, I noticed this too.

If everyone did this, then it would effectively double the amount of Steem every 180 days. The Steem inflation isn't set that high....so the math only works if only a few people do this.

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The reason why that is not the case is not 100% of steem is powered up, actually a very small % is.

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Or if you have powered up but not voted.

Since you get like 400% returns with only 10% inflation, it would suggest about 95% of steem is not being used to vote.

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Very accurate!

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Hi Jerry, I am totally new to this Steem. Followed you here. Know nothing how this works. BTW where can and how can I buy some Steem ? Regards

This made me realize how much money I'm leaving on the table by not voting.

Hello. I have just read another post about voting. In that post, we can see some people think that we should not vote ourself. What do you think about that? And here is the link of that post:

Hey! Checkout blog post on Steem:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@intelliguy/to-vote-yourself-up-or-not-to-vote-yourself-up-that-s-the-question

I think we can vote ourself as it is our freedom and way of earning.

That's great! You come up with excellent calculations each time 👍
Going by your post it really looks like self upvoting can be slammed in hard fork 20. I think that should happen because then members will give more upvotes to deserving posts rather than showing self-love 😀

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@parthpatel @jerrybanfield I think HF20 might change something like this. I really dislike the ability to change the rewards slider when people are abusing it. Someone just upvoted my friend's blog for $0.10 cents but upvoted their shit comment for $9.00 and their friends crap comment as well for another $9.00 :( I hope Steemit puts an end to abuse like this.

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Yes, that's prone to happen. Not everyone can handle the great responsibility that comes with great power 😉
Even I wish this should be changed for making steemit platform a lot better where genuinness will be rewarded.

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Maybe someday soon :)

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@daniweav @parthpatel @jerrybanfield Hey! I'm the friend^

I can confirm I am indeed grieving upon the actions that have taken place. It's a sad time.

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good cmnt
followed

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Thanks for the follow @joydip8116 👍

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thank you dear. Upvoted

Props to you Jerry for diggin in and compiling this data. I could not agree more with changing the ability to be able to vote an unlimited about on your own posts. I think like you said, "4" , you should have some votes for yourself but not unlimited. I'm not gonna lie and say that I do not vote for myself, but I only keep them on my posts for the most part, not usually on my comments.

Oh my god! It is a very good method to double out earning from steemit! I would like to invest some To buy steemit power after reading your post. However, I am very afraid that self-voting will be banned in the future or the return will cut in the next Hf. So what I invest will become nothing! It will be very very sad.

Before HF19, I never really gave this any thought because I never voted higher than maybe 3 cents; a raindrop in a storm. Now, however, my vote has a little more weight - up to about $1. Not huge, but way higher than where I was.
Following HF19, every time I go to make a post, I see that first vote and I know it's from me and I kick myself for not remember to click that box to NOT vote for the post. I had hoped that once I clicked it, it would stay that way for every post until I tell it otherwise but I noticed it keeps coming back with each new post.

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this is what I'm looking for...really? I mean wtf...obviously that function is NOT to our benefit...ok obvious may be premature...still worth investigating further

Maybe you could help to solve some of this issue by supporting @smackdown.kitty?

I allways try to use 1/2 of my voting power to upvote myself, and the other 1/2 to upvote others. So I think upvotes sould be limited to no less then 5. 1/2 of your voting.

Intersting post, it made a lot of different reactiosn. I think the key is not to be too selfish and think about reawarding quality content. We do have to think bigger, as a comunity

I think Jerry's attitude here is just a perfect example of how a decentralized system brings out our true nature, the desire to help each other and to share our positivity and good fortune.

We are in now in an environment at Steemit where we are not being taken advantage of by the system itself, but instead we are feeling empowered. We no longer feel disgruntled and hopeless, because this system isn't rigged against us. Totally the opposite! So when we have abundance, and it keeps coming, then 'feeling good' is a very desirable thing.. Who want's to be rich and miserable!? It's MUCH more fun to be rich and share it so we can enjoy our time with others.

I DO wonder though, how far can this go and still be stable. What i mean is that it seems to me that we will have exponential growth of the amount of money in this system as time goes on. Therefore at some point it seems to me that a LOT of people would want to cash out and sell their Steem. What i wonder is how the price of Steem can stay up if there are so many people going to want to sell so they can spend some dollars!? Who is going to be buying All that Steem? I'd LOVE to hear a good response to this question!!

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@eco-lax How do you reach the conclusion that we will have exponential growth in the supply? Isn't the steem that's paid out in rewards due to the 9.5% inflation which is decreasing every year?

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well.. im not 100% but in my mind since we can all upvote and create money out of thin air.. this will cause exponential supply.. IF when we upvoted our actual steem went down then supply would remain the same.. but it doesn't, SO for example if i give 10 upvotes to person A B C and D in one day they each can have more power to pay that forward.

i might be missing something so thats why im hoping someone can set me straight or else confirm.
thanks!

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@eco-alex Every year, new bitcoins are created out of thin air because miners are spending money to burn electricity, unlike bitcion steem rewards content creators with new steem tolkens. I don't see an issue with the way that it's setup, obviously Dan spent a lot of time thinking about all of this when creating the blockchain.

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im SURE Dan is an amazing person!.. im not criticizing.. im Trying to understand.. It's hardcore math to me..

Let me try to clarify.
The point of exponential money creation happens the moment you upvote.. SInce you just gave lets say 10 dollars, but you didnt lose the 10 you had.. we now have 10 dollars more in the system. If i do that 10 times i have manifested 100 dollars to various people.. I didnt lose anything and so this $100 is new money (right?) Then each of these people with their extra power and reputation will do the same...

So therefore we seem to have a Lot of money creation happening .. at least in my logic we do.. so what am i not getting!? The original point being that if everyone has loads of money then there will be a lot of cashing out / selling going on..

Please persist if im not being clear! This is quite important to me, as i DO see the unbelievable potential of Steemit. I have a lot to give, but i do want to understand what is going on exactly

thanks!

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@eco-alex The way that I understand it is the curation rewards for the comments and articles is pulled from the inflation rate of 9.5% per year which is decreasing at 0.5% per year. As time goes on it will become harder to get curation rewards, because of the decreasing inflation and increasing amount of users.

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ahhhhh!
okay
i think i get it
i need to start reading more i think.
thanks a lot that really helps already..

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No Problem

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So the curation reward is set to decrease by 0.5% per year. Still we have good time to make solid rewards as it is just the start and it is going to be huge.

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so basically we have quite a few years or decades before the curation reward become significantly lower?

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What about inflation? The numbers I share are based on today's voting power and actual inflation because all the rewards produced come from inflation and because most Steem Power is not used for voting! The more voting power used, the less each vote is worth meaning that if every single user only upvoted themselves, we each would receive an interest payout equal to our Steem Power at the current inflation rate. When considering the SBD conversion rate which effectively adds 20% or more to every reward payout at 50/50, the amount of rewards are actually higher than what I show here. As more whales get excited with the ability to vote comments up for $5, $20, and $100+, the value of voting power is likely to continue to drop and get focused at the top more meaning that it will take longer realistically than 180 days to double money with no change!

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I'm so glad someone knows their numbers!!!
I will digest and assimilate
thanks for helping clear this up.. its not so obvious some of the details and implications

Thanks a LOT also for the upvote yesterday.. now you can have a few days off Steemit whilst your power recuperates ;-)

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Superb explanation.

It does not create much value for the steemit community, if you only vote up yourself. Everyone should vote at least vote 50% on posts of other people to keep the system healthy!

Have't researched this enough but currently it doesn't feel like this would be possible to sustain in the long run with that said I have a hard time thinking that the devs don't have a plan for this.

Hello Jerry

Thanks for introducing me to Steem. Can u please vote my feed
"Criteria to use to Evaluate a Currency (Crypto or Fiat) as a Payment Systems"

WOW! What a lot of comments on this post! I am not surprised, it's a great insight you've shared Jerry and a beautiful approach to fairness in this community.

Every day I am within the Steemit community, I become more and more inspired by the generosity of spirit and the immense wisdom that we are a part of, Go you, Go steemit!

Wishing you a beautiful day ;-)

Hello Jerry, funny, I did quite similar spreadsheet two days ago. You may check it here.. I am already sure I was wrong in few of my calculations but generally I guess I understand the principle of steem power and voting power. I started with this math because I got idea to create autonomous bot called Tree Planter. I have already met on steemit.chat super great guy who offer me to develop the bot. Thanks a lot @personz. She (the bot) has already applied for registration to steemit waiting for approval. It means very soon we will need SP. Much. We are looking for investors either you delegate SP to the bot wallet for one year therefor we will be able to plant the same amount of trees to restore the forest and you get 100% of your SP back or you just make it as one year investment and we will return your steem power plus 10% interest without tree planting. I hope you do not mind this type of public offer, but your post forced me to start with it. Let me introduce you Water for Cameroon - Tree Planter Voting Bot; Plant trees and get paid for it!. Thank you plenty for your support.

Incredible numbers... I live in Hungary.
I have multiple disabilities and because of this I am unable to make personal friends and unable to work.
I can hardly communicate with others in person.
My monthly income in real life is approximately $216,76 USD. 60 000 HUF.
$1 USD is 276.80 HUF at the moment.
Any kind of amount from Steemit will be very helpful (lifechanging) to me!
Thank you for reading this! Enjoy Steemit! Have a nice day!

Hmmm I don't know about only allowing 4 vote max / day but I do think you should earn more if you upvote someone else rather than yourself perhaps? But then alternative accounts would all upvote each other... =o

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Yeah, there should be some limit on self voting...but that doesn't prevent bots from doing it. Maybe some kind of captcha that forces the person to actually open up and scroll to the bottom of the post.

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I brought things like this up when Steemit was launched. But the Steemit devs like their bots. So the bots will always win.

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Bots bring a lot of money...so I doubt it would actually happen.

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how do you know if a bot has upvoted, downvoted, or when a comment has come from a bot?

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When Bots comment they usually tell tell you their a bot. Bots usually have a lot of Steempower. So if someone gives you a really big upvote or flag, you can go to their wallet (home page) to see if their a real person.

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Do you mean a captcha that would eliminate bots? I'm all for it, everyone would lose, because I guess everyone gets upvoted by bots, but it would make the platform more real (I think that would be the word).

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Yeah exactly. It wouldn't hurt the steamcleaner and other non voting bots.

Testing

Thanks for the Matrix self-love-hack!

Thanks for the information, but how many times do you recommend a person to upvote daily?

Very nice info @jerrybanfield. I've been watching your youtube videos even before you joined steemit! :)

Can anybody tell me from which amount of SP I am a dolphin and a whale?

I really appreciate the vote you gave me earlier. Keep this up. Recharge a couple days and do it again. Its a win-win in my opinion. @jerrybanfield your a beast,

Namaste

I appreciate your efforts and insights into theory. Promoted.

  ·  3년 전

First we talk about freedom, and then we begin to limit it. Then why such freedom? What I want is what I do with my strength. I want to raise myself, I want others.

Greed is the reason DISADVANTAGES! There will be a person to have the opportunity to buy himself what he needs - there will be no greed! Jacques Fresco.

And what do you come up with here - nonsense!

@jerrybanfield great post! Probz from germany

Nice analysis, thanks Jerry!

You never fail to surprise me :)

Wow. Is this right? I don't doubt you @jerrybanfield. I had to read the calculations a few times to try to make sense of it. However, if they are right, a change needs to be addressed. I hope someone is paying attention. Thanks for the hard work @jerrybanfield.

Thanks for bringing this up. I am new to Steemit and I am still learning the ins and outs of the system. I still don't really understand the upvote system, but it does seem like its just a matter of time before this is adjusted to allow for less whale abuse.

I hope you know that your blog is very much appreciated and your youtube channel is one I always keep an eye on. Your story is very inspiring and I have gone back and watched a lot of your older videos too. You have inspired me in many ways, one of which was to start my first blog here on Steemit. So thank you and keep on posting!

Thanks, us newbies can use all the upvotes we can get.

But this is not happening with all new newbies
Like some of them are not having enough power to upvote themselves
Their influence power is too low.

But thanks for sharing this amazing post with us

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My vote is worth a whole .5 cents when below 100% :(

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That makes sense though. If you did that 10 times per day for 180 days, your account value would double.

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And mine is 0.02
Lol
But I'm happy
If @jerrybanfield is talking about that we can double it we will.
And Right now I'm checking my content not money

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ageed :)

Thank you Jerry heard you speak about this today. Enjoyed listening to the 'event" this afternoon and look forward to your commentary.

  ·  3년 전

I have about $60 worth of Steem Power in my account, earned 100% from my previous posts over the last 2 weeks. Every upvote I make is $0.04. If I post once a day, I will earn $1.20 from my own upvotes in 30 days. It will roughly take me 4 years to double my SP. I don't know how @jerrybanfield could be doubling his SP in 180 days because his calculations look valid too.

Jerry always great content! you're the man for helping people that are just starting!

what if we just can upvote others posts ? and cant self upvote? does it change the game too much? I dont think so :)

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Agree! I like this idea!

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Like I said, eliminating self voting will only impact negatively on minnows, not the whales. Our posts are already buried 6 feet under so self voting gives us a chance to dig ourselves out of our graves. Remove this and we minnows are likely doomed. Then you will be forcing late adopters to power up their accounts with Steem, which makes Steemit even more identical to Ponzi schemes.

interesting. thanks for posting @jerrybanfield :)

Its not a bad thing to upvote your own comment or post. Is it?
Just don't stop upvoting other people's post or comment after you've upvoted yours.

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i just upvote whatever i think is important and needs to be highlighted.. It doesnt make any difference if that is my post or someone elses.. When i write an important comment i will upvote my own comment to get it seen.. It isnt about the money really but about the content.. Im quite tired of poor content such as i have on my Facebook feed and will do what i can to highlight things that i think are worthy.

We all have some degree of power here.. SOme more than others, and yes the Whales have most. To become a Whale takes some amount of skill and ability. We can assume that those who have managed to ascend to these heights are wise and smart.. Of course not all of them, but at least some or perhaps many. Now we have a system that has given us power, we have to learn to use it responsibly. I have faith in human nature that overall we will do that, and that there are plenty of people around to keep a watch and protect the integrity of the system. The alternative, which is to restrict power, such as by not allowing people to vote up themselves, leads us on a path that is not desirable!

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That depends on your own personal preference, especially for comments. Some people think it's okay to upvote their own posts, some other think it's not. Just do whatever you feel is right for you :) However, most people upvote their own post, so no need to feel bad about that!

I really appreciate all of the good information that you put out. It's REALLY GOOD stuff!!!

Here you say, "...voting our own posts up repeatedly brings a feeling of greed, selfishness, and being alone based on my experience already doing this during the first few days I joined."

I am sorry that YOU feel that way. I do not. I have no problems upvoting myself. In fact, that's the default setting when posting, isn't it? I mean, if I don't feel confident that I'm putting up a post that is actually worth someone else's time to read - why the hell would I be posting that, to begin with?

I would encourage you to remember that your opinion is just that: yours. The wonderful thing that I have discovered in life is this: I decide what everything means to me - not anyone else. This is such a pivotal discovery that I would call it nothing short of a paradigm shift in my own thinking.

I hope you understand what I'm saying here. Not to detract from your work, or anything of the sort - your work is awesome and important. But, I take exception to your characterization of self-confidence as "greed & selfishness." Self-interest is an absolute necessity in this existence.

"JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY" KEEP UP YOU'RE GOOD WORK

I am upvoting at 1:1 and feel like it is a good long term solution; every time I upvote myself I upvote some else's post. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

@jerrybanfield

I share your concern, and even posted this exact sort of math one day after the HF. But your suggestion makes no sense. Because of bots, sock puppets, steem power delegation, up-vote trading, making multiple accounts, etc there is NO functional way to prevent self-upvoting. At best, you'd stop a few minnows from doing it. It would be too easy for anyone else to continue it.

Anything short of a huge, full-time crew of employees empowered with the ability to confiscate accounts would have no ability to dent this behavior. Incidentally, that sounds awful.

"make changes which limit the ability of users to double Steem Power just upvoting themselves, would you please upvote this"

I think a solution that is at least hypothetically possible is required for any meaningful discussion to take place. I also think the truth may be that this is simply the result of reallocation of whale rewards in the previous exponential system. Inflation is still locked at 9.5%, so either the pool reallocates, or this is a fair distribution based on capital holdings once flattened from exponential to linear.

@jerrybanfield this works with whales and on a much much smaller scale for us minnows.. one day jerry one day.. the rums a flowing.. the ships almost ready to set sail!

You are truly a wizard with these numbers!

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He is the master of playing with numbers

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Not only that jerrybanfield is a miner of theory and facts he dig deeper to get those valuable information for us to know more new things on steemit worth to follow.

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It's extremely basic math dude :)

I don't understand why you can upvote youself in the first place.. Makes no sense..

That's a great post. I was thinking about this too. The only issue with limiting the number of self votes per day is that people could just get around it by creating multiple accounts and voting on those instead. But I like your suggestion about limiting votes or vote power for comments. Also I'm sure if someone starts doing this, the community will find a way to auto downvote their posts.

Very interesting post Jerry. Thank you for sharing. Do you mind sharing that spreadsheet with us? :)

Interesting read, this isn't good if it's true. Although I couldn't tell you if any of this checks out. I admit I do upvote some of my posts in order to try to gain more visibility. For whatever, I'd rather spend a lot of my up or on other people who coming to the platform. Overall that makes it a more inviting for newcomers especially ones who out out awesome content!

Congratulations @jerrybanfield!
Your post was mentioned in my hit parade in the following categories:

  • Upvotes - Ranked 3 with 669 upvotes
  • Comments - Ranked 3 with 323 comments

wow jerrry that is cool!
Very good to the point post. Like it.
Upvote+follow+resteem+share

Another sweet post @jerrybanfield
Great numbers you have there man, it sounds tempting to buy 20k worth of steem to power up and have some sweet gains. Also supporting the project and getting deep into Steem and having the opportunity to help others too

Thanks for sharing!

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no doubt. 20k of steel power is real tempting. I'm just trying to get to 10k!

Seems as though all of my posts are automatically upvoted. I didnt even realize till this article. How's a minnow to know? 🙄

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here it is...lol...look who it is ~smiles~

I was just searching through the comments hoping someone would bring up this very point.

I was aware of it...I know you can disable it...just wonder if it's set at default to help us minnows
...or to save the whales...a bit of a conundrum for me...and what about trails and the like

Is MSP a good thing in the long run? Or something to help grow till one can do well on their own
Wish I knew how to comprehend TOS agreements...let alone the numbers presented here.

Maybe someone will come along and throw us some guppy food...for thought eh?

peace out...in

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Every time you post there is a checkbox labelled 'upvote post'.
Just uncheck that box and you should be not self upvoted..


Just makes things more complicated for me to understand. lol

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even me here its an overwhelming information but slowly we will get into it am sure.

My Motto "Upvote"! Upvote myself or Upvote someone else, JUST UPVOTE :)
@jerrybanfield

Thanks for the resources, the knowledge and the inspiration! Great post!!!..:)

Beautiful.
Read every bit.

bro omg u are fuking genius! come dude up vote for me help tYY dudee