我對HF21免費點爛的看法 My perspective on free downvotes in HF21

9개월 전

https://steempeak.com/hf21/@lukestokes/hf21-what-makes-steem-valuable
之前讀了luke這篇,對於點爛的部分他認為可能又會再度引發點爛大戰,他不知道這樣之後對於社群發展會不會好,不過要試試,總比什麼都不做好。我同意這點,不過我不看好。Steem資料是公開的,點爛很可能會被報復(我就有這麼做過😊,也會這麼做)。大戰後,又會回到原點,達成新的平衡,效果恐怕不怎麼樣。我建議加個配套措施:可把免費點爛額度綁定在欲點爛文章、留言網址,匿名傳給等級較高、SP較高的人,由他們評估後決定再來點爛。可傳給複數人,額度用到清空為止,之後再點爛就要耗費VP。

此外,很多人一直在詬病買讚機器人,我要嚴正反駁。Steem的需求有三個:預測價格會上漲的投機人、要給予好內容支持、想提升自己聲量的買讚人。Steem價格長期是呈現一個下跌趨勢,所以第一個需求不大。第二個,如果不自讚,不多人會願意特地去了解、花錢買入steem進行這種利他行為。所以第三種,買讚人的需求至關重要!其實白皮書裡面也提到了這點。在此PO一篇漫畫,箇中意義,可以好好想。
http://mymaidcafe.com/zh/2013/12/31/post_id=2313/comment-page-1

點爛者認為我用買讚拿到高獎勵、排入趨勢文章,會排斥到別人PO文的獎勵、注意力。點爛是一個平衡,降低我這篇PO文的獎勵。這是一個公有地悲劇,解決方法就是要管理、設好限制。而steem是個無政府組織,目前管制也不完善。我想到一個解法:把獎金池分割,列入機器人名單的ID點讚超過一個比例,該文所有獎勵就由買讚的獎金池出,反之亦然。這樣就可以在提高點讚獎金比例外,提供另一個方法抑制買賣讚。不過也是可能HF21後買讚人就少很多,不需要這個。只是這樣抑制了買讚,對幣價影響會不會好,我懷疑。

I read this article(the link above) a few days ago. He thinks that it may have another flag war after having free downvotes after HF21, but yet he's not sure whether it'll be good for the community or not. But it's better to try then do nothing. I agree with that, however, I doubt the effect. The data of steem is public, it may get revenge of downvotes(I do that😊) After the flag war, people would get a balance point, and things will go back to the start, there won't be significant change. I suggest another added feature: make it possible to transfer the free downvote quota binded with the permlink(encrypted) to another people who may have higher prestige, SP, and they downvote after evaluation. It can be transferred to multiple people, and the free downvote can be used totally, afterward, it cost mana or free downvote quota of the downvoter.

Besides, many people was complaining about bid-bot. I want to refute it seriously. There are three kinds of demand of steem: investors who speculates the price will go up and they'll get profits, people who want to support good content, people who want to gain their voice. The price of steem have gone down for a long time, so the first kind is not much. As for the second, few people wouldn't spend so much time on understanding the complicate system of steem for an altruistic action. So the third, vote-buyer's need is vital! In fact, it was also noted in the white or blue book. I post a meaning comic here. However, I can't contact the author, so I can't post the pictures directly and writes the subtitles.
http://mymaidcafe.com/zh/2013/12/31/post_id=2313/comment-page-1

The downvoters thinks I buy vote to get high pay, and gets into trending articles, may exclude rewards, attention of other good content, and flagging me is a balance, to lower the reward of my post. It's the tragedy of the commons. And the solution to to have a proper regulation. But steem is anarchic in some degree, it's hard to get it. I bring up a solution: split the reward pool, if the upvote value of listed bid-bot ID gets over a certain percentage, the reward come from the bid-bot reward pool, and vice versa. Then there would be another method to inhibit votes selling. Though I doubt if it have a good impact on the community or the steem price.

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Sort Order:  trending

Public downvoting will always lead to retaliation and a mob mentality. Downvotes need to be hashed to be effective.

Posted using Partiko Android

good call here

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That's a part a steem economy. If it turned to what I said, things will be different. You should read the white paper more clearly, and think deeply.

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It's greed.

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Greed is human nature. That can be guide to be harmless.

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You are hurting this platform with your greed, and this is not good.

Here is a thread about why (in the comments). This steemian took it seriously and did some research, reflected and understood.

A very short summary:
-Buying a position in trending for content that doesn't deserve it makes a very bad image of steem.
-'Raping the reward pool like you do means that there is by far less for others.

I hope you have an interest in steem as a whole, but maybe you are just here to take short time advantage.

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You may as well say I'm reminding steem, and I think it may make steem better in the long run.
As I mentioned in the post, much of the demands come from it. We are who buy steem, while most of content producers sell steem and reduce steem price.
Your comments are inefficient, and even wrong. It will be much more efficient to split the reward pool as I wrote, and the investors would be better to judge about using bit bots. That can raise the steem price, and make whole steem system better.
Origin bitcoin built on miner's greed and selfishness, but it can be used to establish a peer-to-peer electronic cash system. The point is to make rules, not to tell people what to do. I hope you can think about it, instead of being stubborn on the old thought.

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Do you think your post deserves to be in trending?
Did you read the thread/link?

btw.: We don't make rules here (look up 'decentralized'), we just tell people what is good, and what sucks. And we up- and downvote.

I'd also be interested where you think I'm inefficient and wrong.

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Yes.
Yes again. But my point of view is different from you. That can't convince me.
We don't make rules here, but there are rules here. We can affect that by voting, and cause the HF to change the rules. Codes are rules. I can't make rules myself, cos I'm not a top witness, and I can't code.
That's one of the reasons that I buy votes: try to inflence others and change the rule.
The dropping price, community activity already proved your throught is inefficient.

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So, flags are part of the steem economy too, they are the part called reward disagreement!

Downvoted for rewards disagreement

點爛者

这个称呼好有创意

Looks like the flag from the initial flagger is too small.

Flagged for bid bot abuse.

@steemflagrewards

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Steem Flag Rewards mention comment has been approved for SFR Token Issuance!

Tokens will be transferrred when the flagged content reaches payout.

Thank you for reporting this abuse, @enforcer48.

  • bid bot abuse
    You bought votes to increase the rewards of your post above the value of its content.

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Maybe your downvote delegation idea could be accomplished with something like https://wise.vote/

I don't think "proper regulation" ever works. As soon as there are clear rules, they will be exploited by those who are okay with doing so, and that's the problem. We will only ever have as much freedom as the amount of cooperation we create. Inhibiting vote selling or bit-bots is not actually possible.

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Then you should be downvoting this post with the rest of us!

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https://steempeak.com/steem/@john371911/nonameslefttouse-re-nonameslefttouse
Perhaps. But I'm thinking about identify them first, then there'll be many ways to deal with it.

I think its odd they did not make free upvotes too. Like why just downvotes?

Posted using Partiko Android

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Cos there's little payback by downvotes before. Anyway, I agree with you about free upvotes. I wrote an article about it.
https://steempeak.com/tw/@john371911/basic-voting-power-bvp-pending-for-my-friend-s-translation

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