Hardfork 21 is HAPPENING. What will change?

6개월 전

hf21 change coming v2.jpg

Hello Steemians, exciting times are upon us. On Tuesday, August 27th at 11:00 AM EDT, Steem will go through its 21st hardfork! We previously summarized the changes, but in today’s post we would like to help you understand what you can expect on 11:00 AM Tuesday morning when the hardfork occurs.

What is a Hardfork?

For those who are confused about all of this hardfork business, all you really need to know is that hardforks are a blockchain-specific term for software upgrades. As you probably know, blockchains are impossible to change by design. That’s why we call them "immutable." The chain grows as information is added to it in new blocks while the old information‒the information earlier in the chain of blocks‒stays the same.

This code has to be carefully designed because it protects all the tokens stored on the blockchain, all the social information Steemians choose to store on it, and it also governs the interactions between these two systems. This code has to be “bulletproof” so that as long as people are running Steem nodes, and as long as people are transacting on the blockchain, the chain will continue to grow in accordance with the rules embedded into the blockchain.

Updating the Rules

You can think of a hardfork as an update of the rules going forward. We can’t go back and change the rules that governed the creation of the chain in the past, but we can change the rules in a way that governs the future growth of the chain. This rule change is a little like taking a fork in the road. Some people running the blockchain may choose to continue using the old rules, isolating themselves in the process.

Because this change requires a firm commitment going forward, whether one chooses the new or old rules, it is hard. And that’s how we get the term "hardfork." It is similar to other software upgrades except that all of the nodes in the network have to coordinate their actions so that it happens at the exact same time. We have chosen August 27th at 11 AM for the next coordinated upgrade. One important factor in this choice was ensuring that exchanges were given enough time to prepare.

Maintaining Stability

In many protocols, hardforks are a chaotic event that threatens the stability of the ecosystem. This is because protocols like Ethereum and Bitcoin allow any motivated person to become a node and, as long as any nodes prefer the old software (i.e. the status quo) to the new, the result is a splitting of the chain into two competing protocols. Examples of these can be found with Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold, and Ethereum Classic.

DPoS

With Delegated Proof of Stake (DPoS), while anyone can produce blocks, only the top 20 block producers as determined by stake-weighted upvote, are "canonical." In order for new software to be integrated into the blockchain a supermajority of Witnesses have to come to a "consensus." The Steem blockchain guarantees that if a supermajority of Witnesses begin running the new software, any blocks from Witness nodes that have not upgraded will be invalidated. This is a classic hardfork.

However, because a super-majority is required, and because the Witnesses are ultimately accountable to Steem’s stakeholders, the odds are maximized toward only positive changes being made, along with very little interest in creating sister-forks; chains that continue being run based on the old rules.

What to Expect

Hopefully all of this happens seamlessly and you don't notice much of anything at all. We, along with many community members and witnesses, have been testing the new version of Steem on our testnet for several months now and have performed the hardfork logic on several smaller testnets.

But as much as we plan and test, it is possible to run into a few hiccups shortly after the hardfork because that will be the first time that new code will be run at scale. Our engineers will be monitoring the state of the network carefully during and after the hardfork so we can react quickly to any problems, should they arise.

User Experience Changes

There are a few changes that will impact how you use steemit.com and other Steem interfaces.

Rewards

The rewards curve is changing. We expect posts that would make more than 20 STEEM under the old rules to earn more after the changes. Those posts that would have made less than 20 STEEM under the old rules will receive less after the changes.

Reward Split

Reward funding is being changed from the 75/25 split that currently exists, to a 50/50 split between author and curator. That means you will be rewarded significantly more for curating content after the fork.

Downvotes

A downvote mana pool is being added, which will allow you to make a few downvotes each day without impacting your ability to earn curation rewards from upvotes.

If you would like to learn more about the changes included in HF21, please read this post.

The Steemit Team

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First of all, this is a great opportunity for people to start manually curating the way in which they believe it ought to be done. No more excuses that delegating to bid bots is too much more lucrative. We're all so lucky to be the first people ever with the power to influence and incentivize the behaviors and development that we want to see in the future social web. Let's build that shit together instead of quarreling over "rewards" that don't mean anything else than dilution + lowered STEEM price unless we use it to create something others find worth joining.

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This is a great opportunity to sell your free downvotes if you never plan on using them and to use bid bots to make sure all rewards are 20+ SP so you don't get cheated.

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Hopefully, the stakeholders that have stayed with Steem through the bear market understands that min-maxing returns from selling down/up-votes doesn't result in profit, but a decrease in the value of their holdings. Let's change that.

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@edicted is making a point that is logical. The reality is that most people's posts don't get anywhere near 20 STEEM without bidbots. That's just a cold hard reality. This change is making bidbots more necessary for content producers.

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It wasn't always like this. Hardly anyone reaches that level because so much stake is bound up in bid bots. If we can return much of that SP to manually curate content and also build a new culture where people vote to bring value to Steem then it is absolutely possible for more creators to start earning those levels of rewards once again.

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No the cold hard reality is that new people will loose interest before they even know how it all works. What they should have done is make post with higher value on it reduce the gain. And those with lower votes gain more. That is logic. Now they are kissing up to high sp people.

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No the cold hard reality is that new people will loose interest before they even know how it all works.

We can't know this until we've seen how things play out. But I agree that it is a fair concern that smaller users, communities, and comments in general may suffer.

However, stakeholders can choose to avoid this if they want. We for instance build our curation system on @steempress to add support behind a large number of curation projects. So that smaller users who write original content and get engagement from others can quite easily reach 20 Steem in total post rewards.

Speaking for Steem in general, a lot rests on the assumption that a significant amount of the stake currently delegated to bid bots will go back towards manual curation, as well as downvotes returning rewards from vote farmers to proper users.

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Like you said before nearly no one earns 20$ on their posts at the moment. The only people that do are those with either a big pocket or a big following. They will be earning more. But to be frank it is not those people that need to stay around to make a "SOCIAL" network. It are the small people that make or break a big system like steem. We have seen a decline in activity for months now. Because the small people don't interact anymore. Everyone is scrounging to get ever last bit of steem. And what do the devs do? Make shure the small people earn even less while the big whales earn more .... ?

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@fredrikaa I think this upgrade is based on wishes how we all want it to be, but it's also based on 0% reality. You who were working on upgrade, should have known better by now

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However, stakeholders can choose to avoid this if they want.

Why would they want to choose to avoid this if they didn't want to choose to avoid this so far?

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However, stakeholders can choose to avoid this if they want.

Ah! that's the KEY question here. If they choooose to avoid 'this' if they want!! eh?

C'mon @fredrikaa. Please, start reading another kind of stuff. :)

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I mean we are a SOCIAL NETWORK.. So why not use our voices for things we believe in instead of just making money.. I see arguments for both sides, but I like to personally upvote posts because some people post things I like and sometimes they post things I don't so.. I guess it's like voting.. You have a voice and it's up to you to use it.

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I think if people on Steem just voted what they actually liked, it would result in everyone - especially those holding Steem Power - earning more money. Curation rewards and bid bot returns are not "profits" if you're a stakeholder, because it comes from inflation that dilutes your assets. To make real money is to increase the value of the token.

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Yes to increase the value of the token is much bette rthan blogging and when we get bloggers to focus on posting about steem OUTSIDE of steem on twitter and youtube reddit etc we can bring in bitcoin holders to invest LARGE bags in steem I MEAN LARGE bags

but yeah its sad to realize that so many people would have a completely different outlook if someone early on at steemit inchad just set up a wolf of wallstreet style marketing dept that pulled in users to an inner circle to see how many new investors one single highly motivated individual could bring in and then TASK that work out to thousands of users... the blokchain is about to undergo things like thsi with TASK token and CAPTCHA and @steenm.ninja INV invite token and its possible distribution via @banjo discord bot for onboarding but we need @steemit @steem @elipowell to check out the work of inertia and maybe fund it to get a massive network of discord steembots issuing steem accounts but EVEN WITHOUT steemit incs help it will happen on its own thats the exciting part. steem is going to start working on its own in a free market way that will show off what steem is truley capable off , all the demand steem can drive froim tribes and steem engine trading and much more.

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To make real money is to increase the value of the token

Really Sherlock? and how do you propose to convince some Indian or African or South-East Asian of whom there are many here that they should save their Steem instead of using their reward to improve their lives ever so slightly?

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What the heck does Nationality or race have anything to do with this? Steem has never depended on anyone but a few wealthy whales (From all around the world) to find its true price, and there is no need to keep users that need convincing. They can sell if they want now and waste their steem on a few dollars of food , when they could have held their savings. You arent supposed to cash out of your stock market savings portfolio just because the prices are low :)
Your argument really came out of left field and it feels like youre actually upset about something else, and I understand the concern for steemians in developing countries but they shouldnt deserve and dont want special treatment. They knew what they were getting into, and many of us dont look a gift horse in the mouth.
Many of these people you refrence got a lot of steem for free and if they did buy it, they can wait the market out like everyone else for steem to find a bottom. There arent that many whales who even own very much steem so the bottom is bound to be somewhere near 7 to 10 cents where a few other whales I know got in (They wont want others to get in) So tell the people in developing nations to place their buy orders very low, maybe then they can become whales on steem and if and when we go back to $ to $8 range this will all have been worth it. or it can go down as far as people are willing to sell it to, but there isnt an infinite supply and it cant get too cheap without certain whales being unable to control their urge to buy millions of steem at less than 10 cents ... etc etc

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You left out the important of "if you're a stakeholder".

My point was to make it clear that curation rewards and bid bot returns are not "profits" to someone who has bought Steem. Because those tokens dilute their existing stake at the same time. So if you want to get more wealthy as someone holding Steem, your focus should be on what you can do to increase the value of the tokens that you have.

So nothing you wrote made any sense in the full context of what I said.

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Not everyone who has bought Steem has done so as an investment. Some have simply bought it as 'pay to play' to increase their enjoyment of the platform.
Always the talk of is of investment and ROI but this is not everyone's primary motive for being here.
Everyone who has 'invested' time here is also a stakeholder. It is still an unlevel playing field designed to exponentially help those with more financial wealth than those without. Exact the people Blockchain technology would benefit the most.

Posted using Partiko Android

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My sentiments exactly, @nathen007.

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I think both social and business are being harnessed here! Isn't it a win win synergy??

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First of all, this is a great opportunity for people to start manually curating the way in which they believe it ought to be done

I read and upvote many articles. If my vote is worth 0.01 now, it will be worth 0.02 after. That's NOT going to change my voting or curation behaviour one iota.

Let's build that shit together instead of quarreling over "rewards" that don't mean anything else than dilution + lowered STEEM price unless we use it to create something others find worth joining.

Rewards mean a great deal to many people here.....not you, of course, you're living the first world dream which is great but there are people here from all over the globe, so try and use a global context to the discussion instead of your simple, rose-tinted first-world perspective.

No more excuses that delegating to bid bots is too much more lucrative

So you will be withdrawing your delegation to OCDB then from which you make a tidy sum each day?

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I read and upvote many articles. If my vote is worth 0.01 now, it will be worth 0.02 after. That's NOT going to change my voting or curation behaviour one iota.

My comment here is mostly addressing the opportunity to get the tens of millions of SP currently delegated to bidbots to be used to curate to create a web that we want, and the potential impact that can have.

Rewards mean a great deal to many people here.....not you, of course, you're living the first world dream which is great but there are people here from all over the globe, so try and use a global context to the discussion instead of your simple, rose-tinted first-world perspective.

If you want to be taken seriously, then make arguments based on the content of what is said and not the identity of the person saying it. Anyone can earn Steem and become a significant stakeholder here. So the comment does apply to anyone anywhere.

So you will be withdrawing your delegation to OCDB then from which you make a tidy sum each day?

That's my plan. Although ocdb is not like other bid bots since it provides good content creators added opportunity to earn mroe Steem.

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Good content creators . Again good depends on your starting definition.

Posted using Partiko Android

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Shouldn't our main priority be to grow the user base, the price would then take care of itself?

These changes seem to most likely do the opposite of that, do they not?

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Yes, this change will indeed deter new users. Create an account. Play a bit around, never get above the dust value, abandon account.

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The changes are made to make investors rich. You better be an investor. This way you earn and do not need to write/post/comment.

Posted using Partiko Android

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But without new users your investment is going down the drain. Slaughtering the goose that lays golden eggs.

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and because the Witnesses are ultimately accountable to Steem’s stakeholders, the odds are maximized toward only positive changes being made

Laughable, at best.

We expect posts that would make more than 20 STEEM under the old rules to earn more after the changes. Those posts that would have made less than 20 STEEM under the old rules will receive less after the changes.

Well, if you needed a FU newbs, here ya go.

Unless the whales step up it looks like a curtain call to me!
See ya on broadway!

That means you will be rewarded significantly more for curating content after the fork.

Yea! My .002 is is going to .004!

Props for the honesty, stinc.
That took backbone.

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🔥🔥🔥

!dramatoken

As an added bonus, here's a GIF I just made in honor of this most glorious fork.

So, what if our whale overlords have decided the crumbs that fall from their tables should be a bit smaller?

At least we are getting crumbs! We collect them over time and we just might have enough for a WHOLE SLICE OF BREAD.

Maybe over a year or so we will have a whole loaf! 😋

Now that's a lot of CALORIES! 🍞

So, what if it's a little moldy by then. That's just EXTRA FLAVOR!

Don't be ungrateful, @freebornangel! Fall back in line, citizen! 👮

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If you want the dolphins and whales to enjoy steem more and maybe BUY MORE steem, we MIGHT need this :) Imagine the dolphins who benefit get excited enough from these changes to buy more steem, the price of steem goes up and all of our rewards go up to new levels, levels that we may never have gotten to without these changes

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Doesn't look like it. Looks more like they started selling when they read the HF21 paper.

Should have done so as well. Silly me.

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I have been but with much trepidation which is prudent imo.

As long as the bid bot owners as well as founder circle jerk circles hijack inflation without proof-of-brain it is risky.

Perhaps, the technical changes w the fork may assuage my concerns but I am one to suppose the problem tends to be more a matter of culture and lack of decisive leadership from the large stakeholders up until this point.

I appreciate your enthusiasm but in my line of work here exposes me to some shady things. Things that don't imbue me with confidence.

Don't get me wrong. Steem has countless redeeming qualities but make no mistake. There is a cancer and we are gearing up for a slightly more aggressive yet unfocused treatment.

If StInc would take a hard stance against vote selling collusion and impenitent token manipulators, I think the prognosis would be much better. They could always delegate that responsibility to @steemflagrewards. 🙃

Time will tell.

Posted using Partiko Android

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How about all of us buying some Steem?

Posted using Partiko Android

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Just bought more Steem to upvote you. I'm am altruistic idiot. 🤪

Perhaps, one day dogs like us will have our day.... Without a hard fork.

But I am keeping that on the table if treachery becomes so pervasive that there is no other reasonable option.

Posted using Partiko Android

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Sir, yes sir!
The recruit will fall back into line and make due with his fortunate position in the crumb line!

Just keep that lobster under control!

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Such drama, you've earned a DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

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:) I like the Drama Token...haha
They def. earned some! ;)

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Well, if you needed a FU newbs, here ya go.

It has absolutely nothing to do with newbs, it is about posts being rewarded more than 20 steem which has nothing to do with newbs.

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Sublinear.

Exponentially.

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Yeah, so after I pointed out that your FUD about newbs was bullshit you come back with non sequitur response.

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I've had several discussions with you regarding not only how (read: not why) we got to this point, but also these proposals and so when I see your bullshit about "they said the rich get richer" or "screw the newbs" it's satisfying to call it out knowing that we both know how full of shit you are. You lately respond to being called out with more nonsense/bullshit and/or snickering, for whatever reason, showing me that you

Have

Been

Reduced.

I've effectively countered your nonsense, and while you've had numerous opportunities to respond in a thoughtful manner you foolishly hunker down behind the same sentiment of "development is shit and stakeholders are worse" with your snickering and petulant nonsense and you're completely convinced it seems, that by slandering either the community/stakeholders or the development (which is one and the same as far as I'm concerned) you are holding their toes to the fire, but what I see you do is neither holding their toes to the fire or honoring the principles behind such, like accountability, which comes chiefly from integrity, so it simply is slanderous nonsense and its mostly to castigate it seems, and you think steemit/whales as responsible and you think you're holding them accountable but you are not accountable or responsible for what you claim even, a burden that is considered so cursory it ought never to be evaded, but that doesn't mean you don't have very high standards of others and think you deserve to lecture them on principles like integrity and responsibility.

Cut the bullshit already, what are you trying to do, because it seems like thousands of failuires later you're trying the exact same thing/still sticking to the script, but now you have me in the mix though, taking every single opportunity (and sometimes tripling it) to make sure that I exemplify the way to respond to bullshit. I'll let you know when it's over.

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Lol, give me hell, baah!

I'm just trying to understand the math.
You don't have to appreciate my methods.
Nor do you have to agree that when somebody makes changes that were known to be flawed doubles down on those changes I should double down on my contentious resistance to said changes.
If you remember correctly, steemit was on the soon to be deprecated list not that long ago.

As for the shadow banning, there is only one way to prove what I said, and I'm betting it's only a matter of time until I find more broken links.

I will be sure to tag you when I do.

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I'm just trying to understand the math.

Good one, is that why you're asking instead of stating?

You don't have to appreciate my methods.

Cut the crap. Methods aren't unsubstantiated slanderous nonsense.

Nor do you have to agree that when somebody makes changes that were known to be flawed doubles down on those changes I should double down on my contentious resistance to said changes.

What changes exactly? That's what I fucking thought, vague nonsense.

If you remember correctly, steemit was on the soon to be deprecated list not that long ago.

Which list? Who's list?

As for the shadow banning, there is only one way to prove what I said, and I'm betting it's only a matter of time until I find more broken links.

Broken links don't mean shit. You think that the simplest explanation for a broken link is a massive conspiracy to "shadowban" you, because when you regard unadulterated slander as a methodology of operating then the simplest explanation is the most insane and idiocy ridden one.

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You missed the other half:

Those posts that would have made less than 20 STEEM under the old rules will receive less after the changes.

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What are you talking about? Does that mean that it has absolutely anything to do with "newbs", because you just exemplified how to completely miss the other person's point, point being that the quote is not referring at all to new users.

Fuck it's painful to watch the idiotic nonsense that leaves people's mouths like a bad habit before they consider what they read or even what they said.

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The new payout rules have absolutely something to do with discouraging new users. You just choose to not see it.

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Have to disagree with you on a number of points. But firstly I have said before I would like the changes to have gone further, maybe 10/90 split. The truth is the vast majority of users will never earn by posting, however they can continue to do so in the hope a post goes viral. When most of the upvotes are worth practically nothing anyway, we need a way for those accounts to grow enough so their vote counts, yes the rewards to authors will hit their earnings but if the votes they get are worth more it should compensate for the loss in earnings.

You need some way in my view to distribute Steem to the lesser accounts and then in turn they will distribute it back. You can't prevent some of this being sold but good Curation incentives should be enough to curtail that. What is certain is that the current model isn't working and with the ability to just earn by delegating to bots it just plays into the hands of those with the most Steem.

Another problem is the bad image it presents that you just sign up with a Steem account and the $$$ just pour in, that doesn't help in the long run. Also there is much more to do than just post and upvote so the focus needs to be getting users to get Steem and Power Up. There are vastly more users who will benefit from Curation rewards than will ever benefit from Post rewards. The problem though is this doesn't fix the other problem, that is getting users to manually upvote original content and stop them delegating to bidbots. If you could fix that aspect as well then I think you would have a better Steem eco system.

But like someone above said its also not about how many rewards you get its about how much those rewards are worth so the focus must be on increasing the token value, I think there is enough going on in Steem to attract new users so I am confident this won't have such a bad effect on that as you believe.

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I'm not actually all that much bothered about the 50/50 Split. The decrease in income for postings under 20 Steem bothers me.

And that will hit both small authors and curators. And the amount of posts is already falling:

As is the amount of votes:

As is the value of steem itself. Note that I did buy steem and powered up in the past. But I don't see a point in it any more.

My suspicion: The dolphin to wales have all the steem they want and smaller accounts are disillusioned and don't want to invest.

As for a 10/90 split: Why not go all the way and do 0/100 split like @dtube? We'll see how that will work's out. It's worth a try.

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You just choose not to point out in no uncertain way how that limit has anything to do with new users, so I'll just continue to point out that the curve does not have anything to do with new users, it's entirely about posts, not users.

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If you like pointless nitpicking then go ahead.

But I have a question for you: Who makes those postings? And who curates those postings?

Hint: They are macroscopic so they don't pop into existence out of the quantum foam.

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There's nothing pointless or nitpicky about what I said. Here I'll repeat it again because I like reiterating what you attempted to mitigate to "pointless nitpicking" as:

A curve for posts has ABSOLUTELY no-thing to do with new users.

Do your best to marginalize, change the topic or any thing to that effect.

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Unless the whales step up..

50% curation reward and the #NewSteem campaign might change all this.. Or else why are all even here..

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Yes, if the whales step up and put an end to the abuse it might be worth hanging out, but if they chase off most of the people, what are we doing here?

We already can't get many views as it is.

Would you guys consider publishing some kind of rankings related to the amount of value posts bring to steemit (ie. backlinks, traffic from social media and search engines, etc)? This might allow bidbots to be more selective and only upvote authors who create content that grows the platform.

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hahah ! best reply ever ! you made them change the title .. HF 21 yo !

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Sleeping bags will be having zippers removed in order to make escape easier when attacked by a bear market, @meesterboom ... Unfortunately, beds will be lowered making it virtually impossible for anyone to hide from being jabbed in the ass with a hardfork….

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That's why I don't trust beds!

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And what about steemitblog? Been cheated twice now; they changed the headtitle ...

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Aw. I feel bad. I was only joking! :0D

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...or to hang themselves from...

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It's been a long time, since I have commented, but this is awesome! I have been so busy, haven't had much time for content consumption lately.

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Hey dude!! Glad you are busy, your YouTube channel working well?

It's the same old same old with me!!

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Yeah it is going pretty well! Just passed 70k subs. But it is still like full time work for not even half time pay! LOL Just launched another ebook on Amazon, a little mini cookbook. And started some merch too. Things are progressing, still way slower then I would like! LOL Glad things are well with you.

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70K! You are laughing! Once you got that magic 100K Mark you are in turbo charged mode!! Awesome stuff man!

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oh yes the coveted "Silver" which really isn't silver play button! haha Thanks man!! :) :)

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Aw, it's not silver! Swines!

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Yea I was expecting how we should remember to change voting time etc.

Let’s see what happens! I’m prepared! 🤑

Posted using Partiko iOS

Wow I still can't believe at one point we were fighting for Ethereum for the #2 spot on coinmarketcap!!
https://cointelegraph.com/news/steem-chasing-ether-in-market-cap

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That is amazing, just over three years ago. Now we know how much the altcoin market can change in just three years. The other top coins are still there though. Steem is the one that has lost its position majorly.

Here we go again :) I hope this one goes smoothly as keeping the Steem blockchain going should be the priority. There will be new opportunities with these new conditions. I hope the curators will choose to vote up the good content and not just go for short term profits. Steem has lost enough users lately and we do not want to drive more away. Maybe the big accounts can use their free downvotes to counter some of the abuse.

Onward and upwards!

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I think that the rule that will favour posts over 20 steem will crash all the small content creators to be honest. We have to wait and see of course, but the general impression I have is that if a post make more than 10 $ it is crap and scam.

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Yes! Onwards and Upwards! But can this be guaranteed by this hardfork?? I ask because many a hope were dashed after the previous fork!!

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Nothing is guaranteed. We know there are lots of greedy people on Steem who will just take, but there are some good whales who vote up quality stuff. If they vote down the crap and buying votes has less profit then it could improve. It depends if they go for profit or for the community.

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Well thought out. Let's keep hope alive!!

We expect posts that would make more than 20 STEEM under the old rules to earn more after the changes.

That's really weird!

When I look at the graph for the convergent linear curve... I don't see it ever going above the old linear curve... why then would a post earn more after the fork?

->  

If I take that into a graph calculator I don't see this go above the old figures anywhere. Are you expecting claims to be worth more STEEM after the fork so that the same amount (slightly less actually) would be worth more STEEM in rewards than before?

I guess that could make sense as the globally distributed claims get less under the same number of rshares being generated through voting. Adding in some more of those free flags to the pool of votes, the same amount of claims might be worth even more in actual rewards... did I just answer my own question?

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Some content will earn more from the pool simply because the pool is a zero-sum game in the short term. The absolute value of the curve doesn't matter, only the relative value. Whatever is reduced the least (which in practice is the higher end) will actually be an increase in practice.

did I just answer my own question?

You did!

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Linear does not mean proportional. Your blue line is slightly wrong, it should not go through (0,0), there is a small SP gap that is deducted from each upvote - about 3 SP if I recall.
Look at the graphs in the old reward curve post - then factor in the general loss of author rewards.

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Linear does not mean proportional.

And what is that supposed to mean???

I know... since HF20 50 million rshares are always deducted from every vote... that's more like 1.5SP I think... you wouldn't even see that in the image of the graph unless zooming in very very very close. But yes, I did not include it in the graph, it's totally irrelevant to my initial question.

Look at the graphs in the old reward curve post - then factor in the general loss of author rewards.

I still don't get what you are trying to tell me.

Please correct me if I am wrong. If I buy an upvote post hardfork, I will be paying curators 50% instead of 25%? I believe this will put the nail in the coffin of buying votes as a means to earn.

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Actually, it will do the oposite. Everything about HF21 is hardwired to promote growth of the bidbot economy within the main STEEM ecosystem.

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correct. the changes needed are minimal and, let's not forget, the value of any paid vote is relative to the value of one's upvote (of an upvote in general).

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The price of bought votes will likely decline. Whatever other changes might also happen due to freer use of downvotes, differences in voting behaviour, etc. is more speculative and more difficult to predict.

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I’m thinking some will still survive by increasing Roi to buyers from their curation. Some will probably adapt to a token as a means of paying back value. Who knows! 😂

Or curation trails might be the way to go just like it did couple years ago. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Did the custom json collision semi-solution make it into the fork? I've seen vague mentions of that but it doesn't seem to be in any of your posts.

At this point that's much more important to the future of user experience than the entire voting system.

#sbi-skip

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If you mean increasing the number of allowed custom_json ops per block, yes - that has been bumped to 5 per block from 1.

The complete release notes are here

I have only earned 20 SBD once or twice on a Curied post - before STEEM dropped. (A Curie used to be worth 50+ SBD. Now, it's around 9-10 SBD.)
From what I have seen, the vast majority of quality posters are lucky to earn even 1 SBD per post! So, the ones that have the means to buy their votes will do well from this HF. The rest of us will suffer.

What's your plan to keep good bloggers around? What's your plan to attract new ones? The life of Steem depends on content producers, yet every time we turn around, it's harder and harder to function unless you can afford to put in serious investment - and who is going to do that when the bloggers are leaving - or not even bothering to join in the first place?

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I'm actually really excited about this, The way I see it. Is Authors will get rewarded more, Because people can make money just by voting. So for those people who are posting just for profit, Won't have to. This will hopefully drop the amount of posters but get those with power to ensure they are using their votes.

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It's just like how the tribes have been, with the incentive to manually curate due to 50/50 rewards which is what I did. Steemit for awhile didn't give too much for hard work, except for your upvotes @kaylinart and then odd times you get lucky to get something decent.

It will be good to see anyone working hard on a post, get rewarded from more people upvoting with higher values and knowing you both get rewarded!

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I really, really hope so! If so, it could be a real boon for Steem - and a model for the other blockchains to follow.

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So for those people who are posting just for profit, Won't have to. This will hopefully drop the amount of posters but get those with power to ensure they are using their votes.

Hahaha Yeah! @kaylinart. I just wonder what the heck will be available to 'Curate' in an environment of exclusively pure c-u-r-e-i-t-o-r-s? ;p

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The post says 20 STEEM, not SBD (which is about $3.40 at current price).

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Good catch. Apologies.

Still, that makes the number around 6 SBD right now - only my curied posts get that much - and I'm sure the same is true for the vast majority of bloggers on the platform.

I really hope the hoped-for increase in curation makes up for the loss that most of us will see.

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Double your curation rewards and ask yourself if that compensates.

They just said, 'we expect the rich to get richer'.

If the whales don't downvote enough to replicate the whale experiment look for steem to go on sale.

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Have you seen the current rates? I would say it is on sale already, steem is down 90% since i joined

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Yes, I've ridden the rocket from .07 to 8.0 and all the way back to .16.
I'm not buying, just yet.
I bought at .2 and am waiting for .1, or lower.

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No apologies needed, it’s a bit confusing. I just wanted to be sure you knew!

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I agree with you..From last 15 days, I am posting 2 to 3 quality post every day, I hardly make 2 SBD But I believe in Steem. It will rise as of now i am not earning enough but i am trying to build solid reputation inside the community.

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The break even point they mentioned in the post is 20 STEEM not 20 SBD. That's more like $3.60 at current prices. Even somewhat below that, the effect is pretty modest. People are freaking out thinking they'll get completely screwed out of rewards if the post value is below 20 STEEM but mostly that isn't true. At 15 or 10 STEEM you may not even notice the difference given regular daily price change on STEEM of +/- 5-10% as well as other factors.

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Lately, most of my posts (original and high quality) end between 1 and 3 STEEM. (Average 2.) I've been on STEEM 2 years, full time, and I work with a team of models, including my wife. We invested $5000 into STEEM when we arrived. Our current total is LESS THAN that! In fact it's far less, only $500. We have worked 2 years, and invested 5 grand, and it's down to $500. And we are putting out excellent content that is in demand. Will my 2 STEEM payouts be decreased by the new 20 STEEM break even point? I think so.
But we will get a fraction of a STEEM more for our curation, so that's supposed to make it okay?
HF21 is even worse than HF20 and that's saying something.

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We invested $5000 into STEEM when we arrived. Our current total is LESS THAN that! In fact it's far less, only $500

In fact this is the most important thing. Your STEEM/SP is worth less because the price of Steem has declined, in large part because Steem has not been successful in executing on its vision.

That is more important than payouts. You aren't going to make back $5000 in losses (and hopefully make more than that) through payouts no matter what. This is a futile treadmill mentality. Work to improve the value of Steem.

People are much too focused on payouts as a source of investment payoff when they should be focused on the success of Steem and the price/value going up as a result.

This terrifies me.

Steemit have defended it saying it will help support the quality content, and the good posts currently earn over 20 steem so they will earn more. The idea that steemit would reply to people’s concerns here to say, yes hundreds of tiny users upvoted your post, but the votes you get are worth less than 20 steem so you need to “work harder” is gutting - because we know it isn’t true. A story can be 10-20 hours of work, in some cases considerably more, and going to go out on a limb and say that is probably more time and effort than went into some of the stuff that does well.

Hard work and good content does not mean a post will be worth anything.

I could cite examples of really talented artists who worked more than hard enough on their creations, and never did well compared to other artists who were more of a personality. I am sure most users reading this have experienced creating something they are actually proud of, something that was hard and took a lot of their time/effort, and it just falling by the wayside unnoticed. Instead of supporting them, I feel like this will just lead the more things like big users holding contests just to win an upvote from them, more people to curate at the top where people will get the most back, and make the current "gaming" of upvotes for curation worse.

Steemit introducing free flagging, and letting people take for free what others worked hard for is like a gut punch.

I have been here nearly 2 years, and have just about built up enough steem power for my vote to have value. I currently get bully flagged by a person who doesn’t like me, on the grounds of they don’t think I deserve the upvote due to personal reasons completely unrelated to the content I produce. Once I found out steemit have endorsed that behavior to the degree of making it easier in the HF, I began to experience anxiety about posting. What if one person thinks it’s good and upvotes it, and someone else disagrees or doesn’t like the content I chose to write about, or that my ending wasn’t happy, or they plain just doesn’t like me, and having seen that steemit is now encouraging this in their explanation of the payout curve - flags me. They, for free, can take away the steem power it has taken so long for me to gather, in a single click. No comment, no justification. And I have no control over how much other people upvote me, so I don’t understand why it is okay for me to punished for that?

It feels like steemit is endorsing all the nastiness and bullying that ruins the experience for too many people.

In that vein, I disagree with indiscriminately flagging things upvoted by a bidbot when you can’t stop someone else using one of your content. A person can deliberately trigger a whole load of flags by using a bot on someone else’s comment. You can click to reveal examples in the comments section of the other posts steemit has released on this so far. There is no distinction made between bidbots used by the author and bid bots sent by users who wanted to upvote with more than their vote was worth/sent by a user who is actively hoping to trigger flags. But, if people really didn’t agree with bidbots, they would be flag the bots directly, not the possibly naïve user who used them. Unless these same people are investing in the bot they are condemning the use of, to me it seems more logical to address the cause of the problem and flag the bot. But that isn’t what is being encouraged here and I can’t help but wonder why.

If steemit really cared about stopping spam or shit posting with flagging, they would have added the long requested functionality to flagging, where a person has to select from a list the reason for flagging, and leave a comment with a min character count to say why.

Right now people jump on the flag wagon and half the time, a person gets all their posts and comments flagged for leaving just one comment with an unpopular opinion. How can anyone argue it isn’t censorship? One unpopular opinion and an account get pushed into negative reputation. I have seen it happen without anyone even responding to an unpopular opinion or spampost (that would have been fine on another platform), just a tirade of flags all over a persons other posts that end up crippling them, and they have no idea what they did wrong. That was what created the upset and hurt that led to the Steemit Defense League, a person buying vast amount of accounts purely to flag users to impersonate a group with the intention of damaging the platform. That is how much flagging can hurt a person on a human level, that they will dedicate months, their own money, their own time, to lashing back. Flags for normal users are pretty rare, so when they are suddenly hit with a mountain of them across all their posts and comments without a warning they need to not engage in a certain behavior, or just for expressing their opinion and being noticed by the wrong person, it affects people on an emotional level, and they respond emotionally. Flags should be limited to the offending content, and not targeted at a content creator in general, and a person should be told why they have been flagged and given a chance to address it before they are mass flagged into the dust.

But ultimately, the flagging system is a cop out, steemit are asking their users to police the platform for them, and shrugging off the responsibility for managing the platform onto their users.

I am not alone here in saying this feels like it only benefits those at the top. Their earnings will go up, they get free flags worth enough to destroy even a mid level users who says something they don’t like. At no cost to themselves, they can take away from what people worked hard for. This is framed like it will help people combat bidbots, but what do flagged people do to try and get their rep back up…? They use bid bots.

Steemit could easily shut down or cripple bidbots, but it doesn’t, instead it’s giving out free flags and slashing rewards for those who earn below the average payout. You only have to look at the average post pay out from the trending tags to see that the average user doesn’t come near 20 steem. Most average platform users would agree vote value doesn’t directly correlate to quality. I personally believe people who have voiced concerns, like @viking-ventures, are creating high quality content, but it doesn't reach the 20 steem threshold. I know myself, it's easy to put 10-20 + hours into a story, to say try harder is just missing the point.

To say that flagging is an appropriate way to police users is insanity. There is no one guide we are all upholding, and what is okay and what isn’t is subjective, how is a new user supposed to know they were committing a flaggable offense? There are bidbots, nothing says you can’t use them, a new user sees a post doing well because of bidbots, and thinks, oh that’s what you need to do, okay, and spends the real money they invested in the platform to promote a post. Other users see this, and flag them. That new user lost the money they invested and chances are we just lost a user who was buying into steem.

The new payout curve + free flags feels like something that will lead to more bidbot use.

Given that quality doesn’t equate to the value of a post and the value of the average post is going to drop, the main thing people currently do to increase their earnings is use bidbots, the current most popular way to recover from flagging is bid bots. I am confident the bidbots will adapt, they are run by people who endorse this, I am sure they have a new pricing structure ready to roll that accounts for the 50:50 split.

The suggestion in the explanation from steemit that by flagging someone it reduces what they will earn and could potentially increase what you earn feels dangerous.

People already seem to comparatively judge, they declare their work better than someone else and want to know why haven't they earned as much as that person. Steemit suggesting that feeling is justified and should result in flagging is misguided. Especially given things like curie, which have other factors to qualify for them, meaning a person may not get a curie on an amazing story because they got one 9 days ago, and see a curie on a less polished story but feel like their own story is worth more. Flagging isn't the way to deal with that.

It isn’t censorship in the normal sense, because yes, you can click to show a hidden comment, but it’s creating an atmosphere of self-censorship being necessary for survival.

There is so much hate and anger on here, and so much disagreement, most people would think its okay to buy shares in @steembasicincome, but some people don’t and compare it to a subscription bidbot, with so many opposing opinions, and a free weapon being put in the hands of every user, how can a person survive? Seriously, I need a survival guide, I don’t know how to continue to share content.

TL:DR

  • a 50:50 split encourages curation at the top because you can earn so much more from it so it follows why waste curation on smaller users when you will get more back from upvoting someone big
  • quality is not reflected by post value at all
  • flagging with no singular guide for users isn't good for the platform
  • the average post doesn't come near 20 STEEM, only the top few percent will benefit, at the expense of everyone else
  • Posting is scary when you can lose everything you have built up with no warning just because someone didn't like your story, didn't like you personally, or doesn't think it is worth what it has compared to what their own post got
  • we shouldn't be turning on each other with flags
  • flagging other users shouldn't be explained as a way to earn more on your own posts
  • reducing the payout for the average user whilst increasing the cut for curation takes from the user base and feeds the top

#sbi-skip

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Flagged because you're oblivious to the intent of Steem/Steemit and this sounds like nothing but a bunch of whining from someone who doesn't care to build up their own Steem Power.

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That's one way to go about discussion I guess.

If you don't mind me asking, when you say intent of Steem/Steemit. What does that mean?

I ask that because Steemit Inc is a corporate entity and as business I would their intent is profit.

As for Steem, we both know it's a blockchain with a variety of users and variety of intentions for use. Some may be concerned only profit while others relish in social interaction or the conveyance of ideas, art, humor or other things under the sun.

It's reasonable to desire users to be fair in their appraisals of value to the network so I believe that idea is articulated in some sense in @calluna's comment. It was thoughtful but you don't have to agree with everything she said which obviously you don't.

But did really have to go an zero it completely? She took the time to engage the community in an intelligible way. May I ask you to remove the downvotes and, if you wish, place them on me.

You post about Steem being like a desert yet you seem to lack self-awareness of how you contribute to that.

Do you want a network of Yes-Men repeating only ideas that are palatable to your wordview or do you want to be challenged?

Debate and discussion is good for the platform but seems you are quelling with opinion flags.

Hope my contrary opinion is well received. Have a good day.

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This terrifies me.

It shouldn't. :-)

(btw, I would recommend reading @timcliff's Open Letter to all Steemians - Hardfork 21: Culture Change)

I'm sorry for a relatively short reply, it's way beyond my abilities to respond properly to such long comment on a Friday's late evening. ;-)

Hard work and good content does not mean a post will be worth anything.

True.
But for original, high quality content there's a better chance to lure voters because it increase probability that ... it will lure even more voters.
Steem never promised people to pay for their hard work as if blogging were their full time job as successful professional writers.
Steem can pay something instead of nothing (see Facebook, Reddit, Instagram).
They are Steem users (Steem Power holders) who decide who gets paid more or less for their effort.
Think of Steem as decentralized publisher that splits their profit among all authors (well, that's exactly how it is), where authors are also members of the board.
Now we need to make sure that our Steem can generate profit and pay for good content.
HF21 is an attempt to solve some of issues that we have here.

Steemit introducing free flagging, and letting people take for free what others worked hard for is like a gut punch.

Downvoting is an integral part of a post value eSTEEMation.
Without free (relatively small) downvote pool, people had to sacrifice their potential rewards from upvoting in order to fight abuse.
Retaliation downvotes and downvotes from trolls & psychopaths would happen regardless of separate downvote pool.

They, for free, can take away the steem power it has taken so long for me to gather, in a single click.

No. Nobody can take away your Steem Power. All that downvote can do is affect your potential payout for post, and - in edge cases - reputation (if you was downvoted way below zero AND your reputation is lower than downvoter's)

IMHO using name "flag" for downvotes was a mistake. That created feeling that flag is something special.
It really isn't. In as same way as you are receiving random upvote from random user, you could receive random downvote from other random user who disagree with previous.

steemit are asking their users to police the platform for them, and shrugging off the responsibility for managing the platform onto their users.

Steemit is not Steem. Steemit is just part of it. Steem is our platform. Users. It's us who decide.

I am confident the bidbots will adapt

Agree. But they would have to adapt with behavior that's more in line with what's good for the platform.

Seriously, I need a survival guide, I don’t know how to continue to share content.

Don't worry, @timcliff's post mentioned above could serve that purpose :-)

a 50:50 split encourages curation at the top because you can earn so much more from it so it follows why waste curation on smaller users when you will get more back from upvoting someone big
quality is not reflected by post value at all

Not really. If all knows that alice produce original, high quality content, they can be lazy and vote for that instead of searching for more, but to really get good curation rewards they would have to vote earlier and earlier (before others that wants to do the same) that will make them enter 5-minute window and burn parts of their rewards, until it became more profitable to go and search for undiscovered content.

flagging with no singular guide for users isn't good for the platform

As you said, that's subjective, but there are some guidelines on what's a good or bad reason for downvote.

the average post doesn't come near 20 STEEM, only the top few percent will benefit, at the expense of everyone else

That's out of context, all will have reduced author rewards, above is just estimate where curve shape will start to have more/less impact
in the end it's for the sake of the whole platform

Posting is scary when you can lose everything you have built up with no warning just because someone didn't like your story, didn't like you personally, or doesn't think it is worth what it has compared to what their
own post got

HF21 doesn't change much here. Disagreement on rewards was always one of the examples of valid reasons for downvotes.

we shouldn't be turning on each other with flags

Stop treating them personal. Most of them are not, only a very, very, small portion of them are (and downvotes are really very, very rare in nature)

flagging other users shouldn't be explained as a way to earn more on your own posts

reducing the payout for the average user whilst increasing the cut for curation takes from the user base and feeds the top

Gives incentive to Steem Power holders to actually... hold the Steem Power and vote
Otherwise, who you'd expect to vote for posts?

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$0.37 your comment (post) here is worth and that is what 1-2 steem lol and you think that they are wrong? Your post value is going to plummet if you don't have friends who are insiders/whales in steem after this! This is reverse robin hood! Steal from the poor to give more to the rich! I wrote about this the past year ever since HF20 destroyed the platform. Funny most of the big players have powered down a LOT and/or sold out and/or left the platform! I think this is nothing more than a way to get the few big players (about 100 people) the last scraps at the expense of those who actually work hard!

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I agree 100%

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Yup @ned and @gtg and the NEW moron in charge wanna silence me! BRING IT! I got more SP than all them combined rn! They sold us out last year and are "laughing" and now we own the platform! FUCK THEM!

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Agreed, when I read this I thought 'made for the elite to benefit the elite' ....

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Yup @ned and @gtg and the NEW moron in charge wanna silence me! BRING IT! I got more SP than all them combined rn! They sold us out last year and are "laughing" and now we own the platform! FUCK THEM!

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Exactly right

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Yup @ned and @gtg and the NEW moron in charge wanna silence me! BRING IT! I got more SP than all them combined rn! They sold us out last year and are "laughing" and now we own the platform! FUCK THEM!

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You would never earn a penny if you don't have someone who would like to vote on your content. That's the way how Steem works. Actually that's the way how every producer-consumer relation works.

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You would never earn a penny if you don't have someone who would like to vote on your content.

Too bad that currently "someone" means someone with a lot of power, which in turn realistically means a bot, because otherwise we're back to not a single penny.

But for original, high quality content there's a better chance to lure voters because it increase probability that ... it will lure even more voters.

Technically yes, in practice high quality alone is orders of magnitude not enough to matter. Votes of "common" people are literally meaningless, you would require dozens of them to cross the payout threshold (and I assume that after HF it will be even more). Literally the only chance at getting literally anything is to be somehow noticed by someone powerful or to get an upvote from a bot. So far the latter is infinitely more probable and usually absolutely independent of quality.

So yes, once you get that, high quality might help in propelling you even further, but without a random boost there's absolutely nothing in there for you. If you want any sort of gains then if you have to choose between focusing on getting bots' attention and doing high quality stuff, the former is the obvious choice.

All in all a casual user has nothing to do here - either scroll some Hot/Promoted, where first and foremost promoted stuff is, quality being only secondary, thus not really attractive in general, or scrape the rusty bottom of the barrel in New, which is pretty much entirely uncurated, because why would anyone bother, there is literally nothing to gain here and the quality is mediocre 99% of the time.

If you ask me why I'm here in the first place, well I gave up any hope for Steem as a content/social platform and now I'm just curious to see a how this failed experiment is going. Even though it's failed, it's still interesting to see how it fails.

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Votes of "common" people are literally meaningless

You mean votes of people that didn't care to be vested in the platform.
Yes, those are meaningless by design :-)

There's no such thing as bots attention.
True, you need to be noticed by someone with SP to get rewarded.
HF21 is improving that chance by bringing more incentive to those.

True, votes from bots are independent of quality because they are bought.
That is also being mitigated by upcoming EIP included in HF21.

quality is mediocre 99% of the time

Because 1% of the platform are content creators. Others are just greedy, eager to grab author rewards. HF21 makes that situation better.

Yes, Steem is an experiment, and I'm around because of curiosity too, but I disagree that it's failed. IMHO it's not. It added and still ads a lot of value to whole industry.

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This platform is no longer about content creators. That concept died roughly 18 months ago. At present, and I believe that what HF21 is about .... Is 'How do we ensure we can pillage the rest of the Steem?' ....

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And all the little guys like us have buggered off - it's a real shame, we had something great going back in 2017, but the place sucks these days, and I really do think all the wankers who like to spank off and flag posts are going to get this place to themselves...

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Any pointers to relevant information on HF20 (I assume that's what you refer to by "roughly 18 months ago")? I mean sure, I could try to backtrack through steemitblog and find something, but I have a vague feeling I'll spend an unreasonable time doing that while someone better versed in getting around here will be able to find that in a few clicks. Also I'm interested in not only the dry technical specification, but also discussions like this one.

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You mean votes of people that didn't care to be vested in the platform.
Yes, those are meaningless by design :-)

Ok, I have to admit I wasn't aware of this. Too bad that so many of those more invested in the platform are "greedy, eager to grab author rewards".

Why would a new content creator bother at all with joining here, only to drown in the cesspool, virtually undiscoverable? Why would a new user with a few hours to spend every other week bother with sifting through trash and casting votes that won't matter anyway? It seems very all-or-nothing, with 100% nothing being the most probable option.

It doesn't look like you could contribute some ok stuff every now and then or skim through new, upvoting good, undiscovered posts and gradually build yourself some reasonable power. If you're lucky to randomly get someone's attention you'll be getting maybe 0.1SP a week on average, which means it will take about 150 weeks = 3 years to amass anything above those 15SP you get by default via delegation, which is still virtually nothing.

By the way, it would feel much nicer if the delegation was not dropping at exactly the rate of you getting SP. It is a bit disheartening to know that no matter what you do, you will always have 15SP until you surpass that. It would be much more encouraging if it was for example still inverse proportional but at half the rate: 15SP delegated when you have 0 (15 total), 7.5 delegated when you have 15 (22.5 total), down to 0 delegated when you have 30 (30 total).

There's no such thing as bots attention.

Most (really most, like 80-90%) of my account's value comes from a few upvotes from a bot I didn't ask for (or at least not knowingly). It claims to do this automatically. I thought it was more common here (i.e. that bots are not only pay to get a vote or join some sort of a community by using a particular tag and/or delegating some power or similar).

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Too bad that so many of those more invested in the platform are "greedy, eager to grab author rewards".

Unfortunately that's true, but they are harming themselves the most. HF21 is a step forward as it's much less effective now to be such a greedy bastard.

Why would a new content creator bother at all with joining here

Because with all that flaws and issues we are facing, it's still something vs nothing, compared to Facebook etc.

By the way, it would feel much nicer if the delegation was not dropping at exactly the rate of you getting SP.

I can also agree here. That's ridiculous and I was pointing that out to Steemit.
Plus - lack of gamification. Gamification is IMHO the key. Too bad that I'm far away with my skills from frontend related subjects. I'm still hoping that others can deal with that.

upvotes from a bot I didn't ask for

Smart bots that are fighting for curation rewards might chose to upvote content that "looks" promising in terms of getting more votes.

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Why would a new content creator bother at all with joining here, only to drown in the cesspool, virtually undiscoverable

HF21 is trying to improve discovery. So wait and see.

Does this guarantee that every valuable contribution will be discovered? No, but it improves the odds.

Making Steem better step by step is a step in the right direction.

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You guys turn against whales, not realizing that people who hold and buy SP are the ones who give any money to people who just want to cash out...

If it weren't "the rich", the small guys would have no one to dump their rewards to and you'd get 100% of nothing.

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By "you" you meant me? Because it's me who you are replying to :-)

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Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed replied, especially so late :)

I feel that steemit doesn't promote serious quality content, and these changes could end up mainly feeding the pretty closed eco system we have here. If you look at the stats, most of the users left are already curators, not authors, but that isn't the experience most people have. Most people we cross paths with seem to be primarily creators, which makes me wonder if the curation figures are skewed by it counting inactive users who left their steem auto running. I know more curation needs to be encouraged but when new or smaller users will really struggle to hit the part of the curve explained as earning more, and will actually land in the earning less, that doesn't encourage curation of those smaller posts. It encourages curation betting for those with plenty to earn back from it, upvoting things that are from other big users who are likely to do well or joining curation trails. It is already something that happens now. Widening the gap between smaller users and the top isn't going to encourage new or smaller users. My point isn't complaining that quality content doesn't get rewarded, but pointing out that it doesn't, so the responses to people to work or try harder show a lack of understanding.

I never said steemit should pay people like a full time job for blogging or writing. For me any earnings are a bonus, but I want the platform to do well, and for that to happen new and smaller users need to feel like they stand a chance.

I did think flags hurt your steem power so thank you for that explanation. I am glad they don't but even still it is so easy to destroy someone's reputation which in so many cases ends their use of the platform.

I can't think of steem like that, with us as authors splitting the profit, because that isn't a true representation. If that was the case, for a start I am pretty certain we wouldn't have dump flooded the market with so much steem in one go and crashed the price again and again.

Flagging is a decent proportion of the abuse people have been fighting though. There is another side to steem and you may not have seen it. Nearly all the flags I have witnessed have been personal, which is why people take them personally. I have only ever been flagged for personal reasons, and so many legitimate flags trigger a backlash of personal ones. Saying it isn't personal and the rarest of cases isn't true in my experience of the platform. It is a reality that needs addressing and as long as we ignore it, it's going to get worse. Especially with the comparisons being encouraged, some people think they are better than others, but hypothetically, does that mean it's okay for them to flag something that earnt more than they did (which because they think their post was better, makes the other post overvalued, regardless of what others thought) and take away from the earnings of that post, and hurt the reputation of the other user? I am sure you wouldn't think like that but some people on here do, just like some people engage in retaliation flagging and flagging people who support someone they are essentially in a dispute with. Only the dispute gets 'won' by the user with the most steem power, regardless of what it is or what the truth might be.

This is supposed to be for the good of steem but I am saying I don't think the flagging culture we have is good, and I don't think it encourages users to buy in and increase the value of the currency. Quite the opposite.

There should be a proper and separate way to deal with abuse. Imagine if any other platform expected the users to band together and down vote genuinely abusive people to stop them pushing users off the platform instead of just intervening. It can take a long time for people to try and stop abuse the way it is now. Plenty of platforms have these separated so abuse can be dealt with properly. If the abuse element is dealt with separately then there is no reason at all to make it free. I upvote something, it cost me from my upvote pool. If you disagree, surely it should cost you the same to cancel that out.

Thank you for the links. I didn't know there had been guides added, but I think given the way most people seem to flag, they don't know that either. People get flagged for copying the behaviour of big users they see doing well, but those users are untouchable for the mid level users who are actively trying to address the spam/shit posting. I am not just trying to be critical. I want the platform to do well and this doesn't feel good for smaller users. I am not critising you, or anyone individually here because in theory yes, flagging is fine, but I left this comment because that isn't the full reality of how it is currently being used.

The curve hitting the smaller users hardest feels like an issue to me, and I am not taking this out of context. It does say the users who earn more than 20 steem will earn more and those who earn less will earn less.

HF21 does change it, flagging is a problem here as it is, giving them away and telling people to use them in the way explained isn't going to encourage responsible use.

Personally, my posts, no body. I don't expect anyone to, if they want to that's wonderful but I don't expect it, at this point I worry about earning more than I should. I don't think encouraging people to turn on each other is going to lead to more positive engagement which is what leads to more natural curation. I get that isn't the point of your question, equally I don't feel sincere engagement is too much to expect. It worked on steem for a long time, and people would read people's posts and upvote them because they thought the post was good. The issue is wider with the currency losing value and people leaving the platform, alongside new users finding it hard to get established. Big users might need to be incentivised to vote, but I don't think most users do.

Thank you for your response, having to answer on my phone so hopefully didn't miss too much. I am not sure I have been throughly convinced this will be a good thing but you told me a few things I didn't know and raised some good points. Thank you.

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"In Internet culture, the 1% rule is a rule of thumb pertaining to participation in an internet community, stating that only 1% of the users of a website actively create new content, while the other 99% of the participants only lurk."

- Wikipedia
"Similar rules are known in information science, such as the 80/20 rule known as the Pareto principle, that 20 percent of a group will produce 80 percent of the activity, however the activity may be defined."

- Wikipedia

It's OK that new/small users earn small, because that should encourage to build up their presence, vest more and earn more.

I wouldn't be worried about current reputation system at all. It was meant as a simple placeholder to get rid of some obvious spam/abuse.
Currently, mostly due to excessive use of bid bots, reputation levels are riddiculous. I'm still at 68, same as for example @nwu - a user who was posting during one month, total 25 posts, which is more than number of his followers. ZERO comments. I was flagging each post once I noticed that, but at some point I had even lower reputation level...

I don't think the flagging culture we have is good

That's why we are trying to change that.

Imagine if any other platform expected the users to band together and down vote genuinely abusive people to stop them pushing users off the platform instead of just intervening

That's the point. There's no other platform like Steem.
Steem is decentralized. There's no way to "just intervening" because we all are users and shareholders in one. It is all in our hands.

I upvote something, it cost me from my upvote pool. If you disagree, surely it should cost you the same to cancel that out.

That's not symetric, because for all upvotes you make, you get curation rewards, so if alice upvotes abuse and bob fights the abuse cancelling those votes, it can only cancel 25% without sacrificing own curation rewards, and alice will still have 75. In pre-HF21 rules, and user that I mentioned above, I've actually sacrificed over $50 of rewards to fight that single case of abuse.

I am not sure I have been throughly convinced this will be a good thing but you told me a few things I didn't know and raised some good points. Thank you.

HF21 gives us just tools to use and make Steem better, whether it will be the case is up to us. We will see. We will adjust and improve again and again.
If you have any questions feel free to contact me directly on steem.chat, as Gandalf.

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Props for a very thoughtful response.

IMHO using name "flag" for downvotes was a mistake. That created feeling that flag is something special.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree right there. That change seemed to be about connotations and I don't really care about that. I look at flags in a very endearing way as I understood their utility not too long from my entrance here.

Anyways

I understand the logic behind some of the changes. Actually, the theory around the convergent curve makes sense as it makes abuse a bit more apparent.

The problem I have is abuse has already been apparent. I see you flagging it and such is due commendation but so many do not care. That's why I harp on culture over protocol. And for that we need leaders like you flagging trending trash and more.

The few like lone wolf saintish flaggers are not going to solve the problem of chbartistes and his clones. We need coordination. We need StInc stepping up to the plate and having moral fortitude to make decisions as to what is good or not (for the platform).

The laissez faire stance is understandable but I don't think it's what Steem needs. There is gold here but it's buried deep. I mean in the concept that Steem ushered in.

We don't want a visionary taking it and dashing for the nearest exit. We need to build the vision here and now.

That's all I got. Thanks again

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Thank you

That's why I harp on culture over protocol.

IMHO both protocol and culture are required,
but neither of them by itself is enough to make a difference.

It's up to us in the end :-)

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Delete all the other BS you said and keep this ;-)
lol

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Spot ON AD2!

I've basically said F.O. STEEMIT … and Embracing STEEM even more.
We've waited forever for SMT's and then dedicated, self made Whales have came out with Steem-Engine tokenization for the masses. STINC needs to stick to STEEM and leave the social media to someone else... FWIW.
@ned JUST RUN STEEM and Let Steemit die on the vine, it already STINCs to hi-heaven

🙄

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I agree with all of the response here as it is written. But I can still totally see how it creates an unpleasant user experience, and that most don't want to participate in a curation game with up and downvotes and the need to please stakeholders, but instead just want simple guidelines for what it takes to earn rewards and make useful contributions to grow Steem.

At the end of the day, it will all come down to whether or not Steem Power holders allocates their upvotes and downvotes to create and foster a more attractive platform for users to join and become a part of. Let's make the most of the opportunity to do so.

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I feel that interest is being diverted towards retribution, forgetting that we enter here because of the possibility of contributing through our content, contributed according to what I want to say and not to what others want to read.
We will end up castrating the creator and promoting the critic without generating content

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Gives incentive to Steem Power holders to actually... hold the Steem Power and vote

Do we really think a 50/50 split is nearly enough to encourage people to hold more Steem Power? People are capturing 100% of their vote right now via self voting and that hasn't been enough to stem the slide in prices.

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IMHO it's one of good steps forward.

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By itself 50/50 would certainly not be enough. Downvotes and the curve and probably cultural changes also have to play a role.

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No, I don't mean enough to make a change. I mean is that enough to encourage people to buy steem and power it up? I think for that to really happen you need to go to like an 80/20 curation split, 50/50 doesn't seem 'enough', don't you think?

Some are spinning this as SP holders are going to be making more now, but in reality most have been collecting close to 100% of the value of their 10 votes each day via self voting and selling votes, so them collecting 50%ish now is actually going to be a big drop for them...

How is that going to encourage people to buy more steem?

If people weren't buying more steem when they could collect 100% of their 10 votes each day, I am not sure how this is going to help in that regard.

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I think for that to really happen you need to go to like an 80/20 curation split, 50/50 doesn't seem 'enough', don't you think?

Possibly. That exact question has been debated by stakeholders, witnesses and devs. We're trying 50/50 + 25% downvotes + a curve for now, where the latter two are seen as reducing the necessary curation share somewhat. Maybe enough, maybe not. If that doesn't work then we'll need to iterate in some manner.

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you want to encourage better content and hold steem longer make the payouts after a month!

Curation should be 10% dividend.

Downvotes most be attached to a TOS violation.

a TOS VIOLATION LIST PUBLISHED AND REFERENCED ON EVERY PAGE

Write real curation system which makes people classify articles (not just upvote them)

Then have a catalog and search system based on the curation

So that we have a structured interconnected environment environment which allows bookmarking, feeds, nesgroups, plug-ins and dynamic content.

Where authors/creators useful and interesting content is found and promoted not by straight self voting but by the fact that they are on correlation with similar content people are exploring......

but of course instead you guys keep acting like the band playing on the deck of the titanic as it's sinking....

HEY WAKEUP THERE'S AN ICEBERG THERE AND YOUR HEADING TOWARDS IT!!!!!

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No, you and your shitty zero effort memes and circle jerk crew are heading to the iceberg. Its greedy shitposters like yourself that denigrate this platform. You're only pissed because your profitable botting days are numbered.
Bye bye, wrap up warm.

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I like what you wrote. My favorite part is the comparison between Steem and the ghetto tech cartel Hell-Holes, places like Facebook, empires that earn billions of dollars annually and they're not sharing a single penny of that as we are the product(s) that they trade. Steem is an example of an alternative. We also have Minds, etc.

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Change is always necessary for growth to occur. The HF21 is a very fantastic idea.

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Certainly it was not his most lucid moment to comment.
Many of his comments are only defenses of the status quo and not explanations as such of what HF21 means

Perhaps he is not very lucid either; but it seems that in the practice you promote, the curator is privileged above the author

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Authors (good ones) are important for Steem, but curators are important for authors.

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Maybe it's two different and opposite points of view.
According to my vision of this platform (not necessarily correct) the authors are important for curators, because without content they would do? ... criticize each other?
Now, without authors or content, only the whales would remain.
Could it be that they decided to stay alone? ... are they creating an elite with some intention that we don't know?

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Those are not two different or opposite points of view.
It's how this ecosystem works. As mentioned - pretty much same as any other producer-consumer relation.

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You have read the comments? ... there are different points of view, some of them opposite each other.
This platform is NOT a producer and consumer relationship because the good that is distributed in the interactions is limited and prefixed by distribution criteria and not transactions. In addition, an exchange eon is managed whose value is NOT the same for all producers or all consumers.

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Well explained response here. It helped me to understand a little more how rewards works and will work in the future.

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I agree with you 100% have said this for over a year since ned offered us the BS of HF20 and RC/Mana and all the frauds that created.. Funny I hear he powered down and left steem after I called him out over 12 months ago for doing just that! (he flagged me with his insane power just to spite me for mentioning his name negatively)... Funny what you say is EXACTLY what I predicted over a year ago! Flagging should NOT EXIST! After getting rid of flagging we should not be creating a situation where if you do not know whales and/or have insane SP and self up vote that you are punished with lower rewards... It should be linear... You get 200SP in voting power at 100% it should be 1/10th if you got 2000SP in voting power up voted on your post at 100%... THAT IS A FAIR VOTING SYSTEM! Skewing rewards based on how much a post gets ONLY favors the big pay for up vote bots and adding a FREE downvote ensures people can just create lots and lots of fake bs accounts to flag you and destroy your reason for being here! These people who claim you are wrong... ARE THE EXACT people who flagged me and tried to say RC was a good thing and proved AGAIN AND AGAIN they are not into a free good platform but rather protecting self interest.

Witnesses should have been expanded to over 500 and frankly SCALE with active userbase... This is how electoral college works in America for the very said reason of protecting the individuals from a mob rule (democracy)...

Your comment is very insightful I recommend you contact me and discuss more privately as I have a lot to say and I know by reading your comment you do as well!

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I'm going to come back and read all of this. Incredibly thoughtful from what I did scan.

If steemit really cared about stopping spam or shit posting with flagging, they would have added the long requested functionality to flagging, where a person has to select from a list the reason for flagging, and leave a comment with a min character count to say why.

That's kind of what we do with @steemflagrewards. Took it upon myself to create a system where users may properly moderate and receive rewards for legitimate flags (NO OPINION FLAGS). We've received a fair amount of community support and are approaching 100k SP but, unfortunately, Steemit Inc has not shown interest as of yet.

Note: Opinion flags bases on idealogy. Technically we do flag based on our subjective evaluation of rewards specifically as it pertains to bid bots.

With their support, we could go after bad whales, flag em, comment why, vote that comment with an alt and burn the rewards.

...Or alternatively if they desire work out a community support curation initiative with the rewards. We have the bodies in our Discord of about 450-425 (fluctuates) strong and I'm sure we can easily find volunteers among them.

The great thing about our community is the culture and ethos we share. We aren't just trying to bring any jerk trying to make a quick buck but are full of people that really care about the platform and have higher integrity imho.

I'm off on a tangent. Sorry you are being targeted. I'll take a look at your blog, maybe create a post about your comment later. Check out @steemflagrewards if you have time.

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I have heard of you guys, and I have so much respect for you as people, and for what you do. Flag rewards, where legitimate flags are rewarded, and I am guessing if submitted illegitimate flags are also picked up on. Sadly sometimes, you end up being portrayed as part of the problem. Normally by little users who you guys flagged for copying something they say a big user doing. But that is a wider problem of steemit not backing a project that is already addressing this.

The work you guys do makes such a difference, and would be a much better way of dealing with the problem. If steemit got behind you, then you could take on the big users who are problems. I find it hard not to feel for people who copy a big user and get flagged for it.

There being integrity and a sense of responsibility behind flagging is so important. Flags should be motivated by wanting to improve the platform, not pettiness, personal feelings or wanting to earn more. If steemit gave you the backing, and made it so they at least logged the reason for a flag themselves, there would be an accountability behind what you did. I also bet that would be fascinating data.

A very on point and parallel tangent, and kind of the other side to the coin. The user base has already come together to support you as the way to address spam and shit posters.

It is a good point that it is all subjective, but then that makes it hard. The flagging you guys do is different to the flagging that really causes problems, and I would like to see these things separated. Although that said, people still get very upset, but if you were backed, and the functionality of flagging was there so they could see why they had been flagged there could be so much more. Its a tangent of my own, but if flagging was left to people who understood what they were doing, a group that ordinary users could click to report things to in place of flagging, it would be far more effective in stopping abuse and addressing the issues.

The person who flags me does no damage at all, it is purely trying to hurt my feelings so I have ignored it entirely until now. But I know I am not alone, and that a lot of people in the same position are hit more by being flagged out of spite or as part of splatter retaliation flagging, and are more upset by it, and given the amount of people I have crossed paths with who have been misflagged, I couldn't not say something. Thank you very much for your response, I was pretty anxious about having posted this and getting others to sincerely consider some of these things is the most I had hoped for here. Thank you :)

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I do admire this flagging system to the extent it discourages spam, theft, hate speech, etc. Like you said, our perception of things can be subjective as we are humans. So, it might be a question of whether we want a centralized governing body police us or if we would rather attempt to decentralize that policing system. If the policing system can mirror a decentralized, constitutional (blockchain) republic (Steem), if it could seek after three or four branches of governments in Steem, then that might be better. I don't downvote. I don't promote flagging. I promote voting on what we like. I like something, I upvote it. I ignore other things. I don't have time to downvote. But I understand why people downvote. To some extent, I feel tempted to maybe downvote sometimes. So, it might be a better choice to sometimes downvote sometimes. I understand that. Have a good day.

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I think its going to cause more hate

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They seem to forget that voting against others can also be a strategy to reduce competition. A tactic backed by those who voted for HF21 (I was not asked).
If a person with a higher reputation can reduce the reputation of another with a lower reputation, without any requirement or condition, this can turn into a war of flags and markings, rather than content and ideas.

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Technically, that is already a problem. But at the same time, it can also be a good thing. I like free markets. You know that the free market is not safe. But I like it. Steem might not be a free market. But if it was a free market, it would be very dangerous. If Steem was too safe, it would be not a free market. If this second pool is a bad idea, we will all write posts about that.

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STOP PROMOTING YOUR FLAG GROUP....

YOU HAVE THE BIGGEST WHALE PLAGERIST DESTROYER AS YOUR BACKER
HE HAS DRIVEN GREAT CONTENT PROVIDERS OFF THE PLATFORM
YOUR GROUP OF ZEALOTS GOES AFTER LITTLE GUYS and done more damage to an already crippled system by driving so many off the platform.

You put up bounties on content creators who can't fight you and have to cowtow to you.

you don't follow rules like cheetah and you vilify people.

you then tell contest runners promoting new contests to change their rules or you threaten with a group of attack dogs who only do it because your cheating angle playing funder is putting up bounty money!

if you did not have that 2 whales (who plagiarize even in their avatars) you have nothing.

there is no adjucation, tos, your only a group of fake vigilantes.

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YOU HAVE THE BIGGEST WHALE PLAGERIST

Who?

BIGGEST WHALE PLAGERIST DESTROYER

What's wrong with a plagiarist destroyer?

Or are you too afraid to speak up?

YOUR GROUP OF ZEALOTS GOES AFTER LITTLE GUYS

Oh yeah? Tell this "little guy" to fuck off the platform. https://steempeak.com/@crystalliu

Oh wait, you won't. You can't. You are more interested in your overbid memes. That will soon change.

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Totally agree. Bad changes for this poor economy. I will most likely leave this project due to very few becoming even fewer rewards for the 100% original content I am sharing.

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Yes, I earn an average of 20 cents for my posts that is some of the best literature around, and now I'm going to earn less?

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Completely agree with @calluna
Especially with regards to "Hard work and good content does not mean a post will be worth anything."
I am lucky if I get 20 votes on a post. For example, here's a video that I had commissioned for a conference
6 months of work, dozens of fo people involved. Several tens of thousand views and likes on other platforms but only 7 votes here in Steemit:We must Return: Building the Moon Base. https://steemit.com/dtube/@epicdave/4858lgu0fgw
Same goes for news related text posts "The A.I Medical Revolution?💻: https://steemit.com/science/@epicdave/the-ai-medical-revolution-jg3cambh

No way in Hell are both posts combined close to 20 steem.

It's difficult to grow here on Steem as it is, but these new changes are going to make it next to impossible. It seems like the whales are the priority with this update.

I wonder if these changes will cripple the likes of @actifit and similar projects?

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Since the whales will have the ability to end the competition, this could end up being suicide.
If only whales have the possibility of generating content that cannot be marked, those under them have NO opportunity to grow.
This platform was already unfair to the issue of whales, now it turns out that they themselves will decide the future of all, because it depends on the use they give to the power that with the HF21 self-concedes

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Well said @galatas 👍

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Value is determined by supply and demand, right?

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Some people earn very little. It DOES NOT MEAN that their content is WORTH less and NOT AS GOOD as someone who earns more. I am totally with you on that concern. I am trying not to let this dictate my internal state of being, but it's very difficult right now. Steemit is basically saying that those of us who earn less than 20 Steem, our content isn't good. Some of the stuff I share, like the fanfic or videos, HOURS of work, WEEKS of work, MONTHS of work.

It's as though they are trying to get rid of us.

Steemit is going to give more to people who earn more and give less to people who earn less. Not fair. Why not give equal. Not more to some and not less to others. Why should someone else gain more and someone else gain less? Just have it be they earn what they earn.

Hot take: The Whales want the minnows gone, but they are too much of COWARDS to actually tell us to GTFO.

I am going to monitor closely how my posts do after this fork, but if this relationship becomes unhealthy for me, then I am out. Never thought I'd say it because I had a lot of hope for Steemit.

Time to look for a replacement platform. This sucks.

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Thanks for the insight. There is a lot to keep in mind for me. If I do leave, I have to assess the impact it will have on the communities I am delegating to. I would wish for us to as a group jump together somewhere else. I might continue to delegate to some cuz I don't want to leave them high and dry, but I also will have to do what's best for me.

Posted using Partiko Android

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I agree. Steemit is just trying to run us off.

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Come check us out instead! We forked Steem at HF 19 and created a mobile review platform for iOS/Android where users earn crypto for reviews of restaurants, hotels, movies, video games, coins, exchanges, dApps and more! All 100% free!

Earn like you used to earn!

If you reply with your username, i'll even kick you 10 additional BRAVO!

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Username: HowWeRoll i just started.

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I left Steemit for awhile... Because unless you have massive support it hard to make anything. I came back because I like the Platform and Project. But now we will make even less...lol

I have been posting and making $1.50 or so a post some times less with over 3000+ Followers and over 1800+ Posts. It's been hard on here because I often post erotic art and nude art that is NSFW. But some of my images take hours of work, as well as other people to product including models and makeup artists. Some don't take as much work as they are instant film, but still need to be scanned.

I just can't see posting it for even less. When I can actually sell access to it on other sites.

I had hoped Steemit would be great for artists, creators, models, but it's really has not been for the most part and then dealing with flag attacks politics, etc... And then getting harassed by Steem Cleaners and being told I'm a known copyright infringer of my own work...lol I glad I came to Steemit and did well for a little while and I'm very grateful for all of those that have supported my work. But I'm not sure if it's really going to be worth my time to even post. Let alone my dream of actually earning an income by creating content on steemit, which died a lone time ago.

Regardless of my position I think this is mistake for Steemit and will cost them a lot of content creators and they will be left with vote traders. In the long run that does not benefit the platform. But I'm not hating on the traders either, I get it, but there need to be balance, and also giving curators the same payout as the creator is a joke and insult to content creators.

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Steem cleaners harrased me once. I was just posting my YT videos and they kept spamming on my posts and had to spam on an irrelevant tweet saying I need to confirm that the content is mine. My face was visiable on a post they comment on and that wasn't a clue it's my content?

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You've spoken the mind of many down flagged accounts here. One was a friend whose religious views spurs a bully flag whenever he made posts!!

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Thank you so very very much for that comment, sincerely. I had felt like I had to try, so many people get their voice effectively taken by flags.

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That's true. My publications are clearly about religion, someone or a religious congregation other than mine (with members of greater reputation than I currently have) will have the possibility of marking me negatively without giving reasons for it.
It is a possibility for religious, political, anti-gay, progays, pro-drug, anti-drug censorship.

The HF21 will bring to this platform the means to convert what should have been an exchange of content in a bid for the power to publish what I am interested in being published.

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Quite pathetic. But we have to continue the ur individual or corporate campaign against unwarranted flagging until, hopefully, steemit comply to our request!!

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Steem could be policed from a central committee of moderators like Facebook does. We have that with the tech cartels. Steem could be policed, however, through a decentralized Wild Wild West. Downvoting is flagging. You can leave a comment stating why you flagged something.

Downvote Pool

As people downvote, will their downvote power and weight increase and will this second pool grow and grow, is my question. I'm guessing that if people are paid money to downvote, and if that secondary pool is not just merely Resource Credit (RC) manna, and if the downvote grows and grows, then that is potential flaw in Steem. But if this second pool is fixed, then that might be less dangerous.

Downvoting

I don't downvote. So, I don't promote that. So, you're right that we shouldn't be flagging each other like you said. Yes, decreasing author rewards down to 50% is dangerous. It might promote more interaction, engagement. However, it is risky. It is dangerous. I'm hoping things improve. I'm crossing my fingers. Hard Fork 22 might be undoing some of these things. If these things don't really work, we should revert some of these back to HF20.

Free Market

I believe in the free market. Specifically, the market can be crazy. Some people have a lot of money. Some people may be very poor. I believe in the system, generally speaking. I believe in freedoms. So, I believe in letting run around wild doing good and bad. So, we see a wide variety of content with variations of quality and quantity. Generally, quality can be measured subjectively, generally speaking. Of course, objectivity is real. But too often, people are judging quality from a point irrationality, because humans are full of bias, preference, perspectives, paradigms, beliefs, feelings, as we are not perfect. Now, hypothetically, if we were perfect, if we knew everything, then we would be able to rate the level of quality objectively. I believe in freedom over safety. I believe in smaller government. Have a lovely day. Oatmeal.

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Free Market...

Yup. That's what it's all about. And if the reward bar is set too high for new users, the new users will simply not be here.

What's the point in posting on Steemit for $0.02 a week (maybe... if one is friends with a large wallet...) when someone can post of Facebook and have a much larger audience?

From what I've seen so far, most of the top payouts are handed over to plagiarists who have purchased most of the votes and the rewards on the post as well. This particular practice is mystifying to me, as it seems like chasing a tiny profit margin using a ton of cash... but whatever.

There should really be a Gaussian voting power curve... with the highest vote power set at a few thousand SP. That would ensure the best quality content over all... because the mid level users are the ones most likely to be engaged in actively reading content and making the platform better. This would also fix the problem noted in other threads regarding the VP of the bidbots.

But... maybe someday there will suddenly appear a BAT tip jar next to Steemit postings. And the whole discussion of platform generated rewards will slide into oblivion.

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One of the purpose is to protect content from being banned from tech cartels. Money is secondary issue. I'm here to save my work because I've lost thousands of videos, pictures, etc, on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. I've lost dozens of accounts, etc, in the 2010's, in the USA, in Vietnam. Millions of people are running into these issues. As the dollar dies, Bitcoin, Steem, and other cryptocurrencies will continue to rise.

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Well, there are many, many other ways to keep your digital stuff afloat, on the internet or offline, private or public...

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Spoken with great wisdom, especially the part when you said, "Oatmeal." It was deeply touching...

Even commercials can be awesome when designed to be hilarious. The problem with content is often that people don't care enough to do something well. The problem with making it difficult for Steemians to earn without a huge following is that they won't have the incentive.

Wouldn't it be cool if Steem could reward authors well enough that they wrote their books on here? But they can't, because the 7 day reward system does not make it profitable. Steem wants to be a long-form content machine, but it is not capable of paying people long-form rewards. On Youtube, a good video can earn you money for years.

I think we are making a big mistake by allowing for a culture on Steem that says what can and can't be on Steem. We should let everything legal be on Steem and let the curation decide the reward.

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I've often wondered what it would be like if you had settings that would allow you to choose how long the post stays active? Like regular daily posts stay open for 7 days, while big posts you spend a week making, have an option of earning for a month, with changed rewards.

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Yeah, I think allowing people to decide the payout time is a very cool idea.

There would be advantages and disadvantages to extending the payout time, for example, some people might upvote shorter payout times so that they get their curation rewards sooner. But there could be incentives for patient voters that are willing to wait for payouts.

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I would also think it would make sense for a long post to give an increased amount to curators, in exchange for the longer exposure.
Guess we'll see how this fork goes, and if it has issues, we make this suggestion.

Posted using Partiko Android

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Does Dlive have evergreen content (videos) that can earn past seven days which, like you said, Steem has that limit currently? I thought maybe Dlive, which left Steem, was talking about that. But regardless, perhaps we should launch a competing blockchain network that allows for evergreen content, that is content creators and content creators.

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We are moving towards a platform that promotes self-censorship, because the first ones to be marked could be those that generate rubbish or offensive content.
But, when these are finished or diminished, those who remain will have the capacity to eliminate those who are below their reputation.
The whales that promote this HF21 have considered that they could be left alone? ... or is that what they really want?

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@galatas I thought the same thing... I think there are many bad side effects of this update. They may not be shown at first but they will appear and grow bigger every time.

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I really feel steemit should handle abuse, separately to down votes. Plenty of innocent people fell victim to misguided justice and plenty of criminals got away with in the Wild West 😉

The problem with leaving it to users is that isn't possible for people to successfully flag some abusers out of action, the persistent ones create more and more accounts and it becomes and endless game. Others are too big to be stopped.

It didn't occur to me it might grow, that is scarier. I hope not, fixed is definitely at least better than not.

I don't downvote either. Woo yeah. But people do and I don't like seeing it promoted. Cutting the author rewards does risk pushing authors off, I'm not here for the money so much, and would say at this point quite a lot aren't, so I don't know how much that aspect will kill creators, but it is a big cut to give up. Thank you, I am going to hope you are right ☺️

That is really well put. I totally support a free market, and the madness that comes with it. Steemit isn't quite a free market, although it is very comparable to what we also call a free market out in the wider world, complete with corruption to boot.

Thank you, kind of had a sleepless night after I saw I had a response and couldn't delete this comment and dreading what might show up. But thank you, very much appreciated ❤️

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Other Places:

The good news is that there are other websites that are similar to Steem that you can also copy and paste posts to. I'm not talking about Busy which is an app or a platform of Steem. Also, Steemit is also an app of Steem.

Competition:

There are other blockchain social networks that I post to that is similar to Steemit. There are probably more out there. They include:

Bearshares
Dream Real
Serey
Smoke
Weku

Another one that is slightly different is Cent. And there are probably more out there that may come and go.

That's the competition and if Steem fails too much, then some people or a lot of people will continue only posting to some of these other websites. So, if Steem wants to continue to be on top, they will try to listen to their own users. When I say Steem, I mean the Steem Witnesses who coordinate hard forks, annually or whenever.

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agreed, it looks like it's completely gonna suck m*** a*s for the small fry :) ... we shall see, barelyh any post ever gets to 20 steem without putting money into it and the extra downvotes certainly wont help lose the policing culture ... or maybe rat-culture now, get paid to flag lol ... never mind and fuck it , the steem price will show what its worth in the end

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I'm against downvoting because it is mostly abused... however, I like your idea that downvotin should include a "reason stated" for each downvote.

Since downvoting is not going away though, I would like to see vote power COMPLETELY removed from it's use. There is more justice in a completely free market than their is in a falsely monopolized one... the whales would never allow it, but the ideal situation would be that EVERYONE regardless of steem power has the same downvote power as everyone else. It would equalize the playing field for fighting ACTUAL of abuse and it would help the dumber whales to actually act in their own (and the blockchain's) LONG TERM best interest rather than in the short sighted manner they currently mostly bumble around in.

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So very true - I've been here more than three years, but have gone from obsessed to disinterested as the platform has gone backwards, and for me this latest hardfork with more flagging bullshit is the final straw...

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I totally agree with you.
I already found out long ago quality posts are not rewarded at all.
I am a mobile user only and write quality content.
What people are looking for and are rewarding is for sure not quality content.

It is a post of a few lines or a link or a single picture that is nothing special. Mainly those who are rich/famous.

Many communities and Steemians give newbies and great content attention. Try to stimulate great content but Steemit is the only one who lets them down.

I got the feeling it all was just a marketing technique (it was) to get people over here and make Steem grow. Now it came that far they can drop dead.

I asked it many times and still have no answer: Why should anyone join Steem at all? If you start here you can not even post and connect to others in a normal way. With normal I mean: social media.
☹🤔💕

Posted using Partiko Android

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I can relate to how the 50:50 reward split is gonna be a big issue for smaller users like me. I create art based content, and each one takes about 4-6 hours minimum. I get average of 2.0$ per post, which turns to 1.5$ after curation. After the update its going to be 1$, am i really that bad of an artist? Why would i spend 4 hours to get 1$ worth of votes..... Thats insane

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The point is that it will encourage more people to vote, especially big accounts. Hopefully this will mean more rewards and equal or greater payouts. We will see how it works.

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I agree absolutely.
HF21 sounds like a pro-whale update at the expense of everybody else. Basically it sounds like the centralised government structures that we know and hate - and WHICH CRYPTO SHOULD BE TAKING DOWN, not mimicking!

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