Hear ye: a short message from the High Priest of the Church of Piglet himself

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Dearest flock,

While it is still up to the community to find and report which bidbots' upvotes might be less than fortunate, at least some bidbot owners show a little accountability and responsibility by reacting and removing votes when the community has pointed out an overrewarded shitpost.

Most reject this responsibility and feel they are not accountable for their actions.

Although we still think bidbots and delegating to them are key factors in the degeneration of Steemit, at least we can now say that some are more equal than others.

This is also why we think it is a good idea to flag the comments left by bidbots under shitposts when they accept no responsibility at all for having upvoted.

Accountability is a many-splendoured thing, and rejecting all responsibility for voting behaviour should at least be reflected in the reputation number of said bidbots.

There is no reason why they should be beyond the reach of the community's scrutiny and flags.

Best regards,

The High Priest of the Church of Piglet, Holder of Truth, and Keeper of the Ivy Staff.


Image by Katharsisdrill

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Well said. They should be held accountable for smearing the image of steemit. You have my support for this

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@stevevc You should not offer support to this initiative in my opinion. Re-read the whitepaper. This type of authoritarian attitude is exactly the type of thing that steemit was created to fight against.

Look at what a hypocritical piece of crap you're lending your support to.
There is not a single account he's flagged that's "smeared the good name" of steemit.

I've never paid for an upvote on one of my postings, but I did make a post explaining how one can profit from lending their support to one. This mental masturbator with delusions of grandeur flagged me because someone else upvoted one of my comments to a whole $0.60 using a bid bot. I'm single, I work at a restaurant, every penny counts and while I guess no one owes me anything, I still don't appreciate people stealing from my tip jar.

@church-of-piglet proceeded to flag me when I confronted him about it to explain how violated he made me feel when he did that. Do you really not see that this @church-of-piglet account uses exactly the same words as and follows exactly the same arbitrary abusive flagging pattern used by @earnest and @feminism back in the early days and I'd hazard a guess it's probably the same douchebag.

I had an account back in those days and gave it up. Because even though I had very little activity, creeps like this crawl out of the woodwork and attack anything they feel is threat to their manhood. It is accounts like @church-of-piglet that are actually the cause of your attrition problem via their abusive flagging.

As for the original upvote. The person who upvoted me felt it was a worthwhile expenditure of his funds. He could have just as easily sent a tip, but he didn't. He's a creator adding value to the platform. Unlike the jerks claiming they are helping to redistribute the reward pool yet are doing nothing of the sort. All they really are doing is trying to passively benefit while contributing absolutely nothing of value and frustrating people who are actually contributing. For accounts like @church-of-piglet the more people they frustrate and drive off, the more money that is available for them.

They know they don't really have the power to attack any but the smallest and weakest. They should be focusing their efforts on the $500 and $700 posts, but they don't waste their power for that because abusing someone smaller and weaker gives them a special thrill. As is the norm for any rapist or sociopath.

The bots are just a symptom of an unbalanced economy. If you want the bid bots to go away then change the reward system. Get rid of delegation and/or force curation rewards to 100% SP only. The bidbots will be unable to pay their delegators or simply won't have any. That will probably drive off the biggest investors in droves though.

Do you really want to pick the fight you're trying to pick? The thing you guys are forgetting is, people paid for their their stake. They want to profit from it and they have a right to profit using the methods available to them. Are you really telling those of us interested in investing whether it be time, effort or money that we aren't welcome to profit using the tools provided by the platform?

Go ahead, try to nullify the voice of the tens of thousands of investors who have decided to profit here in whatever ways are available to us. You'll lose us and we'll move our energies and our resources to something else.

Take a look at the things I'm doing for instance. I've invested hundreds of hours building things for steemit. I did this because the abusive flagging looked like it went away for awhile, so it felt safe to make a new account and come show you all what I can do.

Do you really want @earnest 2.0 here to drive people like me away again?

You can't have it both ways. Either you support investors and creators, or you support these abusive types that fail to recognize that an upvote is an upvote whether it's paid for or whether it's because the right whale takes notice of your hardwork. An upvote is an expression of the will of a person who invested in this platform and who has the right to vote for who they want.

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Do you really not see that this @church-of-piglet account uses exactly the same words as and follows exactly the same arbitrary abusive flagging pattern used by @earnest and @feminism back in the early days and I'd hazard a guess it's probably the same douchebag.

I had an account back in those days and gave it up.

Interesting, because you had an intro post last month claiming that you had just learned about Steem/Steemit from friends and then decided to join.

So which is it? Were you a user two years ago, or did you just find out about this place? Lying in your “intro” post isn’t a great way to start off, in my opinion.

And for the record: An invested user has just as much of a right to use a downvote for reward allocation/adjustment as an invested user that chooses to upvote. That’s how the system is designed. Neither uses of these opposing votes are “rape.”

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You're referring to some lines from my intro post. It's worded oddly.

I learned about this place after a friend told me about a facebook like site where she was earning money for upvotes. But I'm already heavy on instagram and snapchat and until recently facebook. I didn't see a need for yet another social media. I was finally convinced to join a week ago after realizing that I needed an outlet for my growing desire to both learn and teach.

Nothing I can say will explain it, but I'll try anyways.
I learned about this site from a friend in 2016.
I created an account back then. I was harassed endlessly so I left. I lost the password.

I was convinced to come back after hearing that abusive flagging and a few other issues had been resolved and the community matured.

I did word it deceptively. I did not mention I had been here before. I made it seem like I had never, ever been here and in retrospect that was wrong of me.

Call it lying or call it wanting to forget the awfulness of the past, both are true.
I received almost nothing for my intro post, and I didn't beg so perhaps it doesn't matter, or perhaps it's a defining characteristic in your opinion of me.

I never said that opposing votes are rape, you're not even taking my words out of context, you're just reading it wrong.

What I said was

You're using the same justification that rapist do.
Do you think that because a girl walks down the street in a miniskirt that she's asking for it?
Because your harassment is exactly the same as touching me without my permission and frankly that's just creepy as fuck you greasy piece of shit. Don't touch me!

I still agree with that. Being harassed online, feels exactly the same as some creep trying to feel me up. It made me feel upset and violated. That's my opinion. I responded online, the same way I would respond in real life. He made me feel bad. I wanted him to know it. I wanted him to feel bad too. Considering two people have now said it's over the top, I'll probably go back and edit it once I have something less harsh to say. But you need to know, I said what I said because I felt that way at that moment.

You've gone so far as to downvote me several times. But here is the truth as I see it.

You represent a small group of people who cannot really tackle the big fish that you claim are abusing the system by purchasing upvotes, because you fear retaliation. So you take it out on those who cannot defend themselves instead.

Explain how I am wrong here. I'm all ears.

I made this comment above, but I'd like you to see it too.

If you guys, @church-of-piglet included, really believe what you say then stand for it and stand where it matters. Use the downvote wisely. I don't disagree that bid bots aren't unfairly draining the pool, but I do disagree that downvoting the recipients is a valid solution. It's very easy to see who is delegating to them. 3 lines of code and you could have a complete list of people to flag mercilessly. $10k would buy you 100k steem delegation right now on blocktrades. You could flag the snot out of anyone delegating until they switch to bots to that support your point of view.

Wouldn't this be a better solution?

I'm done fighting this, I don't have the energy anymore to fight it and drawing ire and animosity won't help my cause. I wanted you to be aware of a different point of view and that fact that these actions really do bother me, they do leave me feeling violated.
As I imagine they bother countless others.

You'll probably downvote me to 0 for calling you on it, but I had to get this off my chest.

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We can each choose how to use our SP. Piglet does not have enough to do much damage and I can't take on the big offenders who are likely to retaliate.

Name-calling and insults do not help your case. If you have specific evidence then provide links.

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Fair enough, I'll stop with my name calling as you call it. In my defense, I believe the behavior warranted worse, but if it hurts my case I will stop. The arguments can stand on their own merits.

The specific evidence is right here...
https://steemd.com/@church-of-piglet

Look at the voting history, in nearly every case he's only attacking those who are too weak to defend themselves. You're literally saying that's ok and you support it.

You say he doesn't have enough to do much damage. Yet you say you support his initiative.
You have enough to do some damage, your statements read like you plan to lend him your power, maybe rally more to his cause. You're an influencer, your opinion carries weight. Yet you say you can't take on big offenders who are likely to retaliate.

Listen to what you're saying. Read what I just wrote.

Do you realize that immediately after I said that this is hypocritical because these efforts aren't going after the big fish, just picking on the minnows, that you replied with what amounts to, "I'm going to only take on those who cannot defend themselves". Please tell me any other way that can even be read.

Either you believe what he is saying, "Bid bots are draining the reward pool", in which case you should take on the big fish, the ones actually draining the reward pool for profit. Or you don't believe what you're saying, in which case, carry on attacking those who cannot defend themselves, I guess.

How about this...
The people who truly believe in the story that the bid bots are draining the rewards pool unfairly, put your money where your mouth is. Buy some steem, or earn it and use it to downvote the owners of the bots, not the recipients of their upvotes. Show their owners that you aren't going to permit them to steal your hard fought rewards anymore.

Otherwise, you're passively leaching profits from people who invested money, time and resources in order to earn additional income. Soon you'll find that beating someone up and taking away their lunch money isn't going to work out well, because someone will see that you support this, they will invest the resources to equalize the situation and you will end up with retaliation from someone who is too big for you to defend against. That's where this leads.

Will it be me? No, I'll leave. I'll quit the platform and go elsewhere. Steemit for me and thousands of minnows like me, is just a way to get a few cents for something I would be doing for free anyways and I'm not paying the bots for their upvotes either. That little bit of income I can achieve is the only allure. If you take that away, then this place offers nothing. But when we leave, we don't just leave, we are influencers in our own circles and we warn others to stay away.

Creepy downvoting / flagging takes an emotional toll, because we are too small to defend ourselves and the fact that there are people here who seem to enjoy taking $0.60 away from someone who has no means of defense, is enough to make me warn friends about being here. Those friends have money, they might be interested in buying steem and profiting from it, whether by active or passive means, either way the fact people buy steem and use it as an investment vehicle is what gives it any value at all.

But if those same people see accounts like @church-of-piglet and yourself encouraging and participating in shameful behavior that amounts to online bullying and profiting from it, they just aren't going to waste the money. This means that growth stalls and attrition from the abuse, or simple lack of ability to earn anything here, takes the rest of the value proposition away.

I rest my case

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I'm sorry to see anyone leave who is honestly trying to make something of Steemit. I still haven't seen where he's attacked you apart from this where you make some strong accusations.

We have to fight the winnable battles. I've tried taking on a whale and had my posts flagged to nothing for my efforts. I know that Piglet mostly deals with those who blatantly abuse the system with self-votes (90%+ in many cases) or who buy massive votes for a low quality post that does not deserve to trend.

He may have been wrong in your case if someone else was good enough to buy you a vote. It can be hard to work out if people are doing that via other accounts they own, but I'm willing to take your word.

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Thank you, I appreciate it.
Perhaps I did react too strongly. When I get angry I don't always think about how my words can make others feel.

I did not and still do not feel that the accusation is as strong as both you and @ats-david make it out to sound. I felt violated, I still feel violated. The justification for it is sociopathic. You need to understand that it is not acceptable to me when someone says "I'll take something from someone weaker than me because I have no hope of taking something from someone stronger than me."

If you guys, @church-of-piglet included, really believe what you say then stand for it and stand where it matters. Use the downvote wisely. I don't disagree that bid bots aren't unfairly draining the pool, but I do disagree that downvoting the recipients is a valid solution. It's very easy to see who is delegating to them. 3 lines of code and you could have a complete list of people to flag mercilessly. $10k would buy you 100k steem delegation right now on blocktrades. And you could flag the snot out of anyone delegating until they switch to bots to that support your point of view.

Wouldn't this be a better solution?

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Some people seem to take a flag as some sort of violent act, but it's as valid as a vote that you would not question. It's an expression of an opinion that might be wrong. I don't know Piglet or ATS in person. I've seen a lot of what Piglet does that I do consider valid. I still haven't seen what he did or said to upset you so much.

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Some people seem to take a flag as some sort of violent act, but it's as valid as a vote that you would not question. It's an expression of an opinion that might be wrong.

Reword it this way...

Some people take a middle finger as a violent act, but it's as valid as a thumbs up that you would not question. It's an expression of an opinion that might be wrong.

I still haven't seen what he did or said to upset you so much.

I'm not saying I didn't go overboard. I'm saying that I used words the words I had available to me to express how I felt in that moment. He set me off and I felt violated. Someone spent a little of their own money to buy me the gift of a small upvote on a comment that they felt was insightful and Piglet reached in and took that away by downvoting it. It felt completely inappropriate and the demeanor and justification made me angry.

I cannot expect you to understand this, especially if no one has told you before just how much this hurts.

In my opinion, the justification used for this is wrong. It adds nothing to the ecosystem it only serves to alienate people. If the content of a post is actually spam, or it is something morally reprehensible then a flag is probably warranted. But you can do as much to "redistribute the wealth", by upvoting content that you do like and you do agree with. Flagging someone who has nothing because you're jealous or because you're too afraid to flag someone bigger than you... This is wrong it's called being a bully.

It is an inability to understand why I might be upset, that will prevent people like me from staying. I've tried to be an active contributor and make quality posts.

I would love to see this platform to succeed.
I've given it thought and if this viewpoint represents the opinion of anything more than a tiny minority then I'm leaving because clearly, I don't belong here. I feel unwelcome and perhaps we are just too different. So I'm speaking out about what I feel is unjust and hoping others will listen before I quit and maybe come around.

Ask yourself this. If I'm here and speaking out, how many others have come and gone, that did not feel like they could speak out?

For my part, I should not have lost control of my emotions. I was bullied mercilessly in the past and I had flashbacks. You are not the only one saying I went overboard. I will pause, breathe and think about what to say in the future and I will compose an apology, but I need you to understand. Flagging hurts real people.

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Congratulations @church-of-piglet! You have completed the following achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

Award for the number of upvotes

Click on the badge to view your Board of Honor.
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

Do you like SteemitBoard's project? Then Vote for its witness and get one more award!

Hello church-of-piglet!

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We politely decline.