The Joy of flashing the STEEM account-value!!

3년 전

Never flash your money around said my dad, it attracts thieves and thugs. Keep it in your pocket or keep it safe and out of sight of strangers.

guntothehead.jpg

Because of a few million dollars on steem-display and an Internet full of scammers and thieves our company has had to pay a lot for extended security. No problem for us, we can afford it - but not everyone can and in the class society people in ghettos and slums get beaten up over nothing, what can steemians expect when the whole world can see they have something?

We as a company now have Israelian mossad-trained UN-approved military-protection 24/7 + more cameras, electric fences, and all kinds of cool shit we did not need before when we were somewhat anonymous or at least shielded from a public google search, however it has done wonders for the company in regards of credit-worthyness - but it is kind of sad to now have to experience how tough we have to be, simply to manage our stake properly.

We have heard many stories about extortion, we have heard about murders done to crypto-holders who lived in the wrong community and the reward to risk must have been worth it.

Real Power is something you must TAKE - It cannot be given to you!

What good does a trezor wallet with maximum protection do you if you are kidnapped and extorted to give up your keys? What do you do when strangers send picture of your children from the school or kindergarden extorting you, or else you may never see them again?

Yes - Some of you need to be stressed about these REAL ISSUES!

Basic security for your coins does not stop at encrypted papperwallets and hidden encrypted volumes, password managers and 2FA solutions... That is where it starts!

How to hide your STEEM ACCOUNT BALANCE from anyone but yourself?

By public demand of course. If you as a private citizen, entitled to privacy for yourself and your belongings - you must start writing posts here on STEEM why you want some privacy when it comes to information outsiders can find out about you... like your introduction-post with image of your face + your wallet a click away...

The technology for PRIVACY exists and can be implemented - but ALL OF YOU need to start demanding it!

The technology is easily deployed, you can ask any C++ developer with crypto experience about that. So If you want it, start writing posts about it and make sure #privacy #witnesses #developer and @ned or @sneak know what you want.

Our witness: @fyrst-witness will support steem-wallet and transaction-privacy when proposed - Do you vote for it?

Over at https://steemit.com/~witnesses you should easily find a button to click on to vote!
Thank you for reading, now it is up to you if you want to act!

Fyrst.

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Sort Order:  trending
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yes sir..
you are right..
Hello @ebargains
I realized that you are a good will person..your mind is so high..I feel in always time.. it is my changing in my life... in a middle I need a many contribution ... I hope that I always time help getting for you.. every time I am following for your post because your post informative for us......

I will try.. I always time.. I followed you and other persons I inspired in your post.

Your one 100% upvote changing my life...

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Yes upvotes do change lives, ive gotten a $1000 upvote once from @thejohalfiles and it inspired me to go all out on steem everyday and he changed y life forever and I a forever grateful an I tru to do what he did for me to others below me on the steemarchy and I love finding potential human capital, we have a responsibility to help foster n intelligent discord where the smartest OR most productive people are rewarded for their smartest and most productive of posts..

OH and I wrote a steemspeak.com steem rap for @fyrstikken while thinking about how that name "Norwegian for Match Stick" is so fun to say! ":D

Ruba Luba Lick it When you Thirst again? You needa make some Liquid wif Fyrstikken! Wanna make money Last again or First again? Lemme Bust it open on the verse again, Fyrstikken, First a Can , lemme bust uit open on the Verse Agaian, Fyrstikken, First I can, Ruba luba Dub Dubs on that First Again! First Again! Wuba Luba Dong Dong on the verse again! Cuz you Thirsty man! so come on make some money with Fyrstikken!
First I can, Next i cant, Ima fuck it up with the First Offence! Fyrst i can fyrst i can't, Never wuba lub dub when you cursed you damned, so come on make some money with fyrstikken
dropps mix

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I cant believe no one saw this as a problem before the site was created!

I agree with this.

You could also just create a completely anon account and fund from bittrex or elsewhere as a temporary solution.

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Yes, true - but I hate to do that even as a temporary solution. The ideal solution would be visibility of account values and money transactions only visible to the involved accounts encrypted by the public keys and decrypted by the private keys. And an export to CSV function for whenever the autitors need an update, like we do with banks, cash and everything else when reporting to book keeping.

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Absolutely agree, it is better if the steem power and account value will be hidden from the public eye and only the vote value is visible with its reputation. Sometimes, having those huge digit in steem power will somehow gives inconvenience for the account owner and so for the hackers. I hope they can device a solution on this matter.

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Why are wallets open to the public to see on here...i find that kind of weird...its like showing your bank balance to the whole world all the time!

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Harder for people to be shady, IMO.

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I complete agree but how do we implement it?
If the wallet is hidden isn't still quite easy to find out who the whale is?
OR do you want the steem power of likes also a secret and the earnings on every article...

The solution isn't very clear for me. You say the technology exist so please enlighten us!
''Just encrypt it by public keys'' would still make it visible for bots that just involve in every post right?

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Blind signatures. Develops know how and choose not to.

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really good point ... By tracking the trending Posts , it would still be easy to find out who does make a lot of money , even if the Reward is hidden.

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I AGREE, there is no reason to show the account value to those that aren't the encrypted account holder. You can already see ones' prestige by the number next to username, so the account value really isn't desirable for the reasons you've stated.

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Yes. Definitely.

One further step would be to do the same with the post value.

Anyone can see it and do a quick calculation.

However if only the number of votes and list of top 20 voters were to be public, while the $ value only visible to the author, this would likewise be the ultimate step in security and safety.

We do live in a world that is imperfect in many ways and unfortunately we do need to incorporate measures that are far more important than any "marketing".

Fully support your logic on this and prevention is the best cure.

For those that may consider this to be "too radical", well, ask yourselves these questions:

  1. What would you do if it happens to you?

& if it's the marketing aspects that concern you:

  1. Imagine the BAD publicity one dead child would do to Steem and Steemit as a result of the platform being the way it is.

After all, this is a SOCIAL NETWORK, first and foremost and this should be the basis for ALL measures taken to ensure that this platform here be THE BEST SOCIAL NETWORK out there.

Good call. Was personally thinking about writing a post on the topic and am overly glad to see that there are others out here who have similar justified opinions.

Excellent notion.

Jack.

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I'm on board about the dangers of having the value of the account visible—showing it does have its downside. We definitely do not live in a world where you can flash your money and no one care, or be envious, or simply want to rob you because they can. The invention of the blockchain and cryptocurrency, in part, grows out of a distrust of the geo-political-economic-social structure that exists.

And while transparency is the primary reason for us seeing or having access to what everyone is doing, isn't also being used as a check and balance? Safeguarding against 'bad' actors?

Tons of posts have been written on the subject of reward pool abuse, spam, etc, because the information is available.

I understand this to be a question of account value, but If you go hiding the fiat value of the account, won't you also have to hide the amounts of STEEM, SBD and SP?

And if you're going to do that, wouldn't it just make sense to make all of the wallet unavailable to everyone else, thus hiding the transaction history (which apparently, is already possible to do since I see older accounts with history limited to a week or so)?

Then, would that mean all of the apps floating around would have to change? I mean, we've got an entire ecosystem devoted to keeping this blockchain transparent/each of us in check. However, you want to look at it.

re: post amounts

I would agree with this for a totally different reason, except for everything I just said above. Not knowing the $ amount of a post might cause people to actually read it and then vote on it based on some criteria—quality, agreement, whatever—rather than a monetary calculation only.

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The option to protect oneself should exist. In fact it should be as was mentioned "normal" to keep ones "bank book" private.

However your points are valid points, change is not accepted by many people, because people are creatures of habit.

I dare compare this to be something that is up to the user to decide if they wish to make their banking details public or not.

Like within some societies where some people have to do it, because of their public position, i.e. members of parliament.

Here it would apply to those offering pay for vote services.
Again, it would then be the owners choice to do so and not dictated by a limited number of choices on a platform.

As for the "$" value on posts.

Personally I can understand how this is a great marketing tool.

However, as mentioned earlier, does "marketing" justify putting anyone in danger?

As for transparency, everything is transparent, every transaction is listed in the blockchain, so "abuse" as such can be detected. Maybe not as easily. But easily possible as listed in The Whitepaper, there are plenty of "crabs" out there who will do that. Human nature is the way it is and some people just can't help themselves!

I would like to add another point to your last point about posts without a visible "$" amount on them.
This would also increase the meaningfulness of ALL voters who upvote. because all upvotes as such would be equal in value as far as the number of votes as seen go.

Hence increasing the overall satisfaction of those who do not have as much SP as others.

Equality as far as influence would be increased on all the posts for all users.

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Honestly, I was surprised when I first realized I could look at anyone's bankbook. I guess I use it as motivation mostly. And I agree, there should be an option to hide them, for whatever reasons. I suppose as long as there is a way to 'investigate' for those who need to that would be sufficient. It's easier to track outside the ledger, anyway :)

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I made a wrong transfer to @ speedvoter 7,640 SBD. for which i want to send 0.076 SBD to @speedvoter.
please kindly repay me my SBD. therefore SBD my work for 1 month more in steemit

can you help me @fyrstikken

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To be clear, you transferred seven SBD not seven thousand, right? Some countries use a comma while others use a decimal point. In the US for example, 7,640 means seven thousand six hundred and forty SBD. I suspect you mean seven SBDs and sixty-four SB...umm...cents.

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Why would anyone use a comma for that??

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Probably the same reason some use the metric system and others don't or the reason that some drive on the right side while others drive on the left. Different strokes for different folks, I guess, I guess.

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lol because other countries do things differently

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Although not the other countries, the people of Bangladesh will do it

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That is ridiculous! Numbers should have been a universal language after all--here comes people creating their own system. LOL

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perks of blockchain ... no refund :P

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Hahahaha thats quite a big difference lol!!!

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My friend, thats quite much and mistakes are bound to happen.

I advise you to visit @speedvoter blog and see if any link to discord which i believe there should be.

leave comments everywhere you spot the name and you will get help.

Otherwise, since it sounds like an upvote bot, you just get upvoted the equivalent amount and if its above maximum transfer, @speedvoter should return your sbd.

That's simple.

@bob-elr.

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nice photo

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Your transfer was for 7.640 SBD. Immediately after the transfer you received a vote from speedvoter. Sadly it was less than you sent. Bid-bot voting adds all bids together and pays out its voting power pro-rata to the bids received. In this case the voting power was much less than the total bids received.

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I agree @swissclive. And by the way, I had to check out Merriam Webster's dictionary to take a look what the word pro rata means.

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fancy talk for divided in equally averaged ratios
more or less

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Set up a company, let the company own the Steem Account rather than an individual. Why not that solution?

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Setting up a company will involve additional costs, compliance reporting, etc. If the account is worth a few millions, that may make sense.

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Yeah but thats the only option if your account is worth millions.

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But all the transactions are visible as well.

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Amazing post,amazing idea good luck

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Yes,
after reading your post I cannot other than fully agree!

When I came to steemit 2 months ago for the first time, I found it rather funny and "liberating" that everything is completely visible, but in fact this is obviously crazy!

But isn't this also an inherent problem of the whole underlying blockchain technique?
Everything is stuck forever in that chain which is sort of in the public domain.?

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They could set up an account tree where your main account controls your puppet accounts. Those puppet accounts could have hidden wallet value and you could transfer to them in theory using blind transfer or similar.

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Yes,
I'm afraid all this will be next to impossible; the whole fundamentals are what they are and probably it will prove to be impossible to change it or the whole blockchain will have to be dismantled and rebuild anew.

Because, what about:
https://steemnow.com/@dana-edwards
https://steemd.com/@dana-edwards

???

literally everything is out in the open!

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That's a good idea....

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that's where this electronic crypto currency is taken for me, it remains a mystery until now,

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Was your picture a National Lampoon tactic? 🤙 @fyrstikken

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Problem is, the whole point is that the anarchist community wants rid of central banks so its going to be like banging your head against a brick wall trying to get them to act more like a bank sadly :-(

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Really the safest thing is probably to have a main account that you keep funds on and then delegate any steem power you need to your active account/s. You can probably find out who delegated it but it won't be this single point of failure, and won't be so obvious. Right now it's like my Facebook page is also my Pay Pal account.

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That seems to be a good point. I guess it's not that hard to do for anyone.

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what you are saying is correct but blogging is a way for bloggers to get connected with followers. the relationship between writer and followers is best when followers know about blogger they follow. An anonymous account will not give you this flexibility. Its hard to get followers with completely anonymous identity. Why somebody will follow you if they don't know anything about the author unless you are a god writer.

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You the transfer of the funds would still be visible on both accounts. You could just follow the transfers until you find the real holder.

You would need multiple accounts and move over several hops.

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Stealth transfers solve that. So would blind signature schemes.

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You seem to have a pretty good grasp of the subject. Have you got any posts on the topic of hiding wallets?

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I also would like to know more on this topic.

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Look into bitcoin mixers etc. With something like bitshares it becomes very easy also to move money between different currencies and then perhaps send the money to some kind of mixer to help launder the account into different other accounts. It is very hard to follow the paper trail once you start trading the crypto into different other cryptocurrencies.

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I don't think you understand, first bitcoin mixers only work for bitcoin... obviously... but the main problem with Steemit that we're talking about concerns using Steem Power. That steem has to come from somewhere, so how could you cover that up? Unlike Steemit, Bitcoin doesn't have a Steem Power-like function where holding it somewhere serves a function.

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Well explained, that sort of centralization could turn out to be one of the major pitfalls of the community if we can't figure something out. Hadn't thought about it a lot personally since i'm a newer member. To the drawing board we go.

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If you are gonna properly launder crypto then you are gonna have to use different altcoins. You get mixers for things other than bitcoin, you said: "first bitcoin mixers only work for bitcoin... obviously" that is not true. There has been some writing on mixers using smart contracts with ethereum. I don't see why one couldn't launder steem.

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check out my .00000016 YO

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I do not share anything like how much money or crypto coins I have... not that I have much to show right now anyway.. but even if I did I would not make it public like a lot of the people crypto holders do out there... stupid to show your complete hand..

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If they can't link it to your real person, it doesn't pose much of an issue. I certainly don't share my steemit name with people I know in real life.

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That solves the problem only as far as people that are fine with remaining anonymous on Steemit, which is to say it doesn't solve the problem.

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ezimedia, your wallet is publicly visible on steemit. That's the glitch in this platform they're talking about.

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Smart idea hahaha

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very nice

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Yes you amazing idea

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sorry but can u explain this a bit further?

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So basically any person who knows what your username is on steem, can check your wallet balance. Thus if they know you have a great deal of money then can put a gun to your head and demand that you send all your money to an exchange or wallet of their choice. That being said this same is true for bitcoin or ethereum for example. If someone has my ethereum address then they can go have a look how much I have in my wallet at a given time and perhaps with the help of some persuasion and a gun they could get me to transfer them that amount. Does that make sense?

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Yeah, I think the main solution is to just not link your real name with your account. Tough for celebrities, but they should probably keep steem power on an alt and shadow vote with it.

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Yea that's probably the most secure method and I hope there's development in this area to make it really clear and simple to create these things.

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Jesus. That's pretty scary! Lucky I'm not "steemit rich" HA! Wish I had to worry about but so far, I think I'm not a target. But I can see issues that come up that can't be fixed because of the blockchain. Kind of a double edged sword.

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hey man thanks a lot for that i was also curious about the anon account @berniesanders was talking about. ye this is a serious issue to correct! thanks again =]

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Where can they look at your eth eallet

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Etherscan or any Ethereum blockexplorer.

The difference is if no one knows your Ethereum address they can't look it up and there's no clear connection as to what exactly the nature of the transactions were for, whereas with Steemit everything is very clearly associated with you and there's far more direct information about the source and destination of those transactions.

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check out my .00000016 YO

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i agree

Hello @berniesanders
I realized that you are a good will person..your mind is so high..I feel in always time.. it is my changing in my life... in a middle I need a many contribution ... I hope that I always time help getting for you.. every time I am following for your post because your post informative for us......

I will try.. I always time.. I followed you and other persons I inspired in your post.

Your one 100% upvote changing my life...

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i am also agree with this . this is so good for steemit

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yo tratando de entender esto....

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Amigo estan hablando de que Steem tiene la funcion de que tu billetera virtual es publica, por lo tanto cualquier caco, ladron o estafador podria coger tu informacion y buscarte para robarte.

Han habido ultimamente muchos casos de extorsiones y robos. El del post esta pidiendo que se busque una solucion para ocultar esta información de aquellos a los que no les compete.

Como sabras varios usuarios tienen millones aquí, también en paises de bajos recursos unos pocos miles ya son motivo suficiente para lo que dije antes.

Saludos!

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Es correcto, y sobre todo de los hackers informaticos que se dedican a esta "proeza" ... Y si, tienes razón, pues ocurre que en los paises de bajos recursos donde buscan dañar al que trabaja honestamente, siempre hay alguien que quiere quedarse con lo ajeno, supongo que se ha vuelto viral este tipo de conducta deshonesta ... Saludos

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Tal cual, el tema que ahora es hasta más fácil que antes, no se precisa ir a punta de pistola. Mira lo que paso en el cloud de Tesla que lo estaban usando para minar monedas...

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wow very nice sir

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Or just move it completely out of Steem and into Monero, Zcash, or any other anonymous coins.

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নিজের বউ কে এভাবেই অন্যের কাছে বর্গা দিলো এই স্বামী/2018
http://gestyy.com/wcB67u

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Verge is 7cent, way less than monero and zcash.

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Just because its cheap doesn't mean it's good.....

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the only thing the other 2 got is first mover, the technology are the same with all of them.

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@fyrstikken, what if the way we keep our wallets safe in the future is by the use of our fingerprint... ie. like the iphone... could that work?

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That is even more dumb because it will link your flesh and blood identity to your account. That will not be safe for you.

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  ·  3년 전

What the bittrex?

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Of course @fyrstikken, but the idea is not to do it as a temporary solution, as the friend says @berniesanders, I agree with him, so the question is in the visibility of those transactions that only have to see those accounts involved "encrypted" by public and private keys , I think it will be the best.

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Good info fam i was in aware of this i actually unaware of this

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Stop spamming meaningless comments in another meaningful post, just to start, the rest do as @charitybot stated.

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Contribute to discussions and be yourself.

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Are you ever barking up the wrong tree.

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রাষ্ট্রপতি আব্দুল হামিদ কেমন মজার মানুষ একটু দেখুন, হাসবেন না কিন্ত-----???
http://festyy.com/wcU5Bn

great to see this addressed.

I've definitely debated Powering Down as Steem price increases, for this reason alone.

Should Steem moon at some point, I really don't want it publicly visible what my SP is worth.

That alone should be something to consider, if we're collectively wanting Steem value to rise. Both from the side that it may be a deterrent for large Steem holders to keep Powered Up, and that potential investors may not like the idea of having to keep their investment size publicly exposed.

I've rarely ever gotten involved in the the witness voting, but you've got my support for this issue alone.

Appreciated your service in bringing voice to this matter and initiating the change towards a solution that protects the privacy of Steem investors. 🙏

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Exactly my point. Why would any big holder keep holding SP if the price goes to $100? $1000?

At that point it would make more sense to power down and start a company in the real world.

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Yeah, a lot of people holding crypto even in Russia got robbed. But how do you think it is possible for someone to know what your account worth? If you haven't ever flashed your face or whatever?

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If using a pseudo name and have kept identity secret a whole time, sure.

For others whose profile names match their real names or have revealed them along the way, it’s a different story...

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They'll find out eventually after you post enough. Analytic techniques allow for it to be very difficult to not link your flesh identity to your pseudonym.

The only good thing when you have it all in STEEM POWER is that the thief must consider he gets only 10% after one week and he must have a damn good plan to make sure the owner will not recover his account.... If i was a kidnapper I would prioritize other coin holders over STEEM ;)

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It would however still be worth it for the thief even if he only got 10% and that 10% was for a large amount

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Yeah, it's hard enough to get steem out when trying to do it legit haha.

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I agree with you, So what next step

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even if no one could access it all or not... would you still want your net worth publicly exposed...? 🤔

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10% of 10 million dollars is a lot of money.

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That is naive. If you have it in Steem Power the thief could coerce you into delegating your SP to them, or upvoting their accounts, and then what? Then you might keep your account indefinitely but lose control over how you spend your SP. Coercion is the issue.

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So you are describing a scenario where the thief has control over you for a long time...

PS Have you forgotten about account recovery ?

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It's not the account which you have to secure. The owner of the account has to be secure as well. Ever heard of extortion?

Scenario, corrupt law enforcement matches an account with a flesh and blood identity. Then one of the agents demand a donation to a cause which makes their lives easier or else...

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If you're that worried (as in you're that wealthy and in a position that could make you that much of a target) then you could filter the steem power setting it up on multiple accounts that are very difficult to lead directly back to you.

Thank you for posting @fyrstikken.

Appreciate your post speaking out on this issue......freedom and privacy stand or fall together.

bleujay and bentleycapital are in total agreement with you and you have our support.

Wishing you all the best in your endeavour.

Cheers.

I am very glad you are talking about this because I believe your voice is likely to be heard. I know others have talked about this in the past, but I don't see this being taken as seriously as I would like it to be.

This is the only real negative I see on this platform. Any other problems are rather trivial, but like you say, this could get someone hurt.

Thank you for talking about it and I hope this conversation gets some traction.

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This is the only real negative I see on this platform. Any other problems are rather trivial, but like you say, this could get someone hurt.

Censorship and the fact that users can't express themselves freely for fear of being downvoted by a whale is also a huge problem imo. https://steemit.com/moderation/@snowflake/the-last-missing-piece-of-the-steem-puzzle

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You do have a point there. In certain situations, that comes too close to theft, albeit without the violence.

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Your welcome, Indeed lets make sure we get this conversation some traction.
It needs to be seriously addressed.

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Hi, I just followed and upvoted you. Please kindly follow me back, thanks.

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This is a serious issue that many have not thought about. This needs to be addressed immediatly.

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I have thought about this too. It should be an optional. The right to flaunt your wealth on steemit should be optional. Not sure what the purpose is apart from promoting more investments into Steemit.

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It encourages e to participate. But yes, the reality of having any sort of monetary value share publicly could be be a security issue depending on where you live.

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Yeah, it's not the greatest feature. I think it causes people to follow whales around a bit too much as well.

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Yea it's not like they need to make it a private blockchain just make it so you have to dig a bit to see that information.

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I agree with you @diggndeeper and let's be fair to SteemIt too here. The theft that took place in person actually shocked quite a few people because many expected that theft would always be digital. I think this can be something SteemIt adds to it, if it chooses (as @fyrstikken may say if we ask enough), but I don't think SteemIt intended to bring harm or considered this would become an issue. The theft shocked quite a few people at the time.

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wow! I think I agree with you on that privacy policy and security on people's account cos as for me, that doesn't have any good amount in my steem account. So seeing people's accounts makes me wanna work hard to arrive at such figure but the human mind is so dangerous and for that reason, I totally agree with you. And for such good post am willing to follow and upvote you.

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Agreed, Our security is being compromised just to get more sign ups by showing off the wallet balance.

Seriously, Some Action has to be taken immediatly!

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the wallet balance IS being showed to get signups, so what? lol people can hold their Steempower in multiple accounts but ten it wont do them s good, wont get s much curation, but yeh we need black steem

OR MAYBE NOT maybe we need money to be public? Maybe attracting thieves is just the opportunity cost, i mean you cant just mke teem accounts private, the whole point is transparency, and you can just hold money in bittrex have some anon steem accounts, but no steempower, SO communities will fix this, and also we will have privacy BUT then it wont be as popular....

so its a trade off

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Yep, especially those who has notoriety as personalities. It's one thing to assume someone has money because they're popular on youtube, it's another thing to basically see their bank account balance.

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its not a bank account balance its steem blockchain wallet, it is up to the user t simply not reveal who they are! But we will have black steem, picokernal talked about that, and its definitely happening also thejohafiles talked about it last year, hah the richer the steemian the more interested they are in funding private steem accounts,

The answer is on EOS not steem, EOS will facilitate the privacy from the beginning

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So what is "black Steem"?

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Well they can always remove their steem and have another account delegating all the steem power. On the other hand that just makes it harder to find out and less obvious. I think the nature of the steem blockchain is people will just have to get used to it being public in some degree because otherwise it would need to be a private blockchain like Monero.

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Oh, I am scared that someone know about my 3 steems

Please help me, I need professional bodyguard for 1$ per month. ))

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Sure! I could do that for 3 months :D

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I am with you bro I love the idea

If you're worried about having all that money just give it to someone else :)

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Upvoted past $5
Yes I think its a Bonus to get to show off your account balance, it attracts bad people sure, but so does everything! its not a stem issue its a human issue

The public balance ALSO attracts Good people ad investors and fans and loyal followers who will work hard to impress the steem millionaire

The public Balance is a GREAT thing its what i LOVE about steem.... and so what if it attracts thieves and scammers, tell them good luck and protect your keys and they won't be able to do anything.. its blockchain... and it would be a death sentence to fuck with fyrstikken he has an Army of loyal workers on his payroll, he owns his entire block basically, and he has crazy security, if anyone even tried to fuck with him theyd be dead and no one would investigate. It's a really serious social fortress he has and we should all take these precautions, the more news stories I hear about kidnappings and bitcoin and crypto related shenanigans the more I wonder about how to avoid becoming another statistic

The more money we make the scarier it gets, but steempower at least holds a deterant, even if kidnapped someone would have to hold you for 3 months to wait for the steem power down... thats why its good to hold your keys in a big Bank building, one you can actually trust..you can't do that shit in the USA or Europe... only few nations on the planet will respect your private property, makes me think a memorized brain key 12 word phrase is th way to go

I really see a huge potential for brain keys stored as mnemonically memorable songs, so that you can never forget your keys.... and we will find a solution for the torture attack vector. i think about that all the time,

The team at @agorise already developed Stealth accounts for Graphene. So I know it can be done.

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Hi. I am Raju. Welcome to steemit.

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Thanks, but I have been on Steemit from the beginning.

I felt you were being sarcastic about the introductory post and image - but hey, maybe I misread you. You're right about theft - it can happen digitally and it can happen in person too. I feel it's wonderful if people want to tell the world who they are, but they should be aware that there may be consequences for this, such as what happened to that one guy who had a physical theft of his crypto. You can't tell someone you have none when they can SEE your balance!!!

For new people, consider this when you use #introduceyourself with an image of who you are. Facial recognition is only going to get better.

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I felt you were being sarcastic about the introductory post and image - but hey, maybe I misread you.

No sarcasm. These are real issues that we should and can do something about before more people get hurt around the world just because of STEEM. Please read the whole article and see if you want to conclude or dismiss.

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Upvote and follow back
@iramarsela

I have always thought this was a pretty crazy platform design and you are absolutely right, it could easily be coded out. I wonder what the thought process was behind it that made the dev's think that it was more important than privacy?

I will write a post about it tomorrow.

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The idea is to increase the trustless nature of the blockchain, right? If you can't see the account values, it is harder (or impossible) to detect fraudulent activity on the blockchain.

Then there is the question: Who determines what activity is fraudulent? It's not an easy one.

I don't know how I feel about this... Privacy is good to have, although these changes may have far reaching ramifications relating to legal issues and the security of the network. I'll have to think about it.

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I am not a pet for the current failing systems often referred to as legal, fraudulent, government etc. I am here to support those who change the world, and by that we change governments and we change everything! Julius Cesar does not rule anymore and Rome is famous for its many ruins.

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I have created my post here as promised. Good to see @berniesanders getting on board too. Also I have voted for your witness @fyrstikken. Can't believe I had't seen that before.

https://steemit.com/privacy/@simondocherty/time-for-steemit-to-put-it-s-big-boy-pants-on-privacy-matters

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More power to you!

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I look forward to the day when we stop concerning ourselves with the dictates of some arbitrary government. I realize there are consequences for violating the monopoly of violence to which we are constrained, but tools like this should help us shed those aggressions.

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"although these changes may have far reaching ramifications relating to legal issues and the security of the network"

I was thinking along the same line too.

The original idea was that all transaction is transparent and trustless, but censoring the basically the utxo of an account from the explorer brings its own set of issues. Should this really be implemented, does that mean transactions go the way of privacy-centric blockchains like Menero or Zcash? or is it just a simple censor slapped on top of the account value? and if it works like the latter, does it mean anyone who has the copy of the blockchain still able to see all the transaction and the account value? What power would that create?

I apologies if my thoughts and words looks confusing. As you said, we all need to think about it.

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You bring up some valuable points. Honestly do not know enough bout it either way for it to matter now.

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The main problem is the really lazy placeholder-like security system. Why do you need to have to expose your entire active key everytime you want to do anything with your wallet other than redeem your rewards? I understand you're not using your masterkey and that allows you to not have your account completely stolen, but someone doesn't need to steal your account to clean you out.

Why isn't there 2-FA for Google Authentication and Email? Just offer a selection of simple ways to reduce the risk I don't understand how they can think they can really compete with the likes of YouTube and Reddit when those people are going to be even less interested in getting serious about the security of their account than most of current society that also needs their hand held through understanding aspects of the blockchain system.

Ideally people should not need to know anything about what's going on under the hood, it should just work. It should be impossible to accidentally expose yourself to something that much of a high security risk and yet you're asked to do that everytime you need that active key. At least they created a separate system that lets you login and post with a different key. What they should have done and could still do is have the main system we're posting on now and the wallet system as visually separated. I want to have some sense of separation so it doesn't feel like my Facebook page is also my PayPal account. And why in fact do they not have a desktop wallet? It just always feels so insecure to me which is why I am so nervous about participating in the economy such as a delegating and so on even though I really want to.

So many strange design choices, but I'll stop before I get into a rant about why they didn't program a private message system or a bookmark/saved function for favourite or interesting posts you want to come back to. I get 3rd party devs can program stuff on top and create these things but I don't understand basic functions of this wasn't dome in a certain way to begin with.

If they had Ledger support that would solve the whole problem of private keys completely.

You're talking about some kind of ZCash, where noone could trace your funds.
But with it we have another problem - ZEC is so anonimous that noone could trace founder keys dont cheat you.

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People have to accept the good with the bad. I'd rather they just make it more secure, like getting Ledger support would effectively solve all security problems, and having a more separate system so that it doesn't feel like my Facebook page isn't also my Pay Pal account.

I'm not really comfortable with the fact that even transfers are shown and to what exchange. In our Filipino culture, we don't usually show our payslips even to our colleagues on the same position. Even though we expect the same amount! I am already compelled to tackle this topic. How much more those with large stakes? I'm glad I saw this post. Thank you.

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Yeah, it would be a bit like a CEO showing his paystub to everyone in the company. It does wonders for transparency, but also might tempt the unscrupulous.

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You have to understand why it's open to start with is for a good reason, it means no one can hide corruption and everything is in the in the open. There's really no way to make it private and not lose this aspect.

They don't have to make it so completely obvious though, they could make you go look at something equivalent to Etherscan where in a similar way so long as you know someones address you can track their funds.

A very valid point that I hadn't thought about in depth but that makes a lot of sense when you say it and the issue will just become more relevant the higher Steem Value we get, should be a good idea to somehow offer a hidden account value. The only problem I see is when people vote you still would see the value of the voting power and thus be able to figure out the account value counting backwards ?

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unless the visuals of the posts value would expire after it is no longer up for vote

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The only problem I see is when people vote you still would see the value of the voting power and thus be able to figure out the account value counting backwards ?

One way to solve this I think would be to be able to transfer steem power between accounts.

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I think that we already have this option available.

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That would convert steem into nushares. SP is supposed to be antiliquid.

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After some thought into it.. Unless Steem blockchain itself starts using zk-snarks or fully private transactions, there's not really a way to hide the value of ones account. Just like how how someone can't hide his bitcoin worth as soon as he made his public key known.

However we can try to make it difficult or at least deter any of such events on the website interface level. the data on the blockchain is untouched or has a "reveal worth" value set so that someone can have the option to whether reveal or hide his worth.

Of course, that will come with it's own unforeseen shitstorm package..

choices choices

Good advice!

I agree, privacy is really an important issue...Privacy protects the users who do not want their financial details to be made public. There is a always worry, that decentralized payments will encourage attacks by criminal minds.I hope some action would be definitely taken by the stakeholders of Steemit Inc.....

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Yeah, I'm not used to a cryptocurrency holding being so public, especially when I post under the account name.

at least someone now says it .. when I joined steemit , i was shocked that everyone can see how much value ur account hold. I find it so scary especially I share everything online about where I live ( country at least ) and my face everywhere.. :D

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Yeah, I haven't shown my face, but luckily there haven't been incidents that I've seen.

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The time has definitely come to hide our wallet amounts. The world gets more dangerous with each passing day. @fyrst-witness gets my vote!

Scammers who are trying to extort are coming into play when STEEM takes of, say USD 50+...
No easy answer, but I also know that the STEEM community has something that BTC has not: It's a society in and of itself, often with a v strong community sense, such as in SteemSpeak and MSP... The world is not a safe place, but taking reasonable steps to protect one's privacy is just as important as taking responsibility.

At the end of the day, pride (flashing the dough) preceeds the fall). Always stay humble.

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whoooaaa , $50 steem? Not so fast there buddy. Let try $10 first huh.

yup definitely could be problematic

great post Any one call see your wallet account value its up to you how you protect it follow me check out my blog thanks

That's exactly what I'm thinking.
I love the openness of steemit, like you can check the posts, comments etc.
But there are some things that need privacy, the value of my account should only be known to me.

The truth is most time people don't even know they're flashing their money around for thieves, phising links can steal people money who have invested here too, because they're greed and scam, that many don't even know of

I didn't consider it before steem went to 4$ +, now my account is worth a figure that makes security slightly more necessary and real for even a tiny fry like myself. While cryptos may not be well known in the criminal world where I come from, yet, that day may definitely come.

I really agree with your analysis, I think that the blockchain if used by governments, it will play against privacy and freedom instead of increasing it.
Adding more privacy to the steem blockchain will for sure have a good impact and will encourage more investors to invest in steem.

Definitely, I will support you as witness and will for sure defend more privacy for us :)

I think you make some good valid points here, privacy and security needs to be on our minds going forward. Steemit will just continue to grow, and with that more known to the general public, which can cause some concerns with having the value of your wallet displayed so publicly. After all, many of us share stuff that easily identify us. If we only were faceless numbers, and not real people on a blogging platform, it wouldn't be as big of an issue.

As a compromise; could the total voting power of the account be publicly displayed, but not the total SP?
Anyone looking at an account could see it's voting with 10,000 steem power, but not know whether the account contains 10 SP, with 9,990 delegated in, or if it contains 100,000 SP, with 90,000 delegated out.
That'd make it really hard to choose targets, as the crooks could only see influence, not affluence.

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Yes that would be a good option.

I agree, no one should ever need to know your holdings,or what/where you have them or send them to. And we have the reputation to let people know who has contributed the most anyway so this"Transparency" thing will place many at risk. I never disclose how many BTC or other coins I have, it just makes you a target.

Honestly, when Steem was .06 - .07 it was no real issue, but as it reaches higher numbers... and more come into the space, it already has.

That's totally true. When I joined steemit I felt that any one could see what are you doing and how much you are earning. At first, I was like might be it is okay to everyone and as we are moving towards open and decentralized system so no problem but if you look at your arguments, you have a point there.

Sometimes you have to hide somethings not for the bad but for the good.

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The solution is simple: Don't make too much money. 98% of Steemians use this technique! :P

But all joking aside, yes, this is an important issue to be aware of.

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I think, it's an important point. thanks

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Hi Jnnatul. I am new in steemit. Nice to meet u. :)

Never flash your money? You're like an anti-rapper! :P


Another solution to the main subject of this post, proposed by @dan, is the very opposite of privacy. Imagine if social consensus could return your stolen money to you. Imagine if the thieves could not move their money to any account that wasn't open to public eyes, and people could just contest the transaction. Thievery is objective and easy to identify, whereas privacy relies on a constant and complicated technology arms-race where thief and owner always try to out-do each other, like doping and anti-doping in sports. And that's literally millions, if not more, down the drain, where the cost could be brought down almost to zero if a social thief-proofery was adopted in place of a private one.

Yes it is really important to make account balance invisible here, why to show to others. After all our hard earned money is ours and people should not feel greedy or jealous for our money.

Great post and would have re-steemed if it wasn't for the random image at the top. This does make me consider my safety but at the end of the day, if someone is taking pics of your kids then they will do anything it takes. If it happens it happens but I do see your point and some measures should be taken. Thought provoking post, well enjoyed.

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would have re-steemed if it wasn't for the random image at the top.

Is OK, Im using upvote services to bring it to everyones attention anyway. Maybe I change the picture. I found it fitting.

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Your post is doing great and so it should. It was just a little disappointing when I followed the link(Not that I want to see blood and gore but out of concern for the outcome). Constructive criticism, I mean no offense.

You are right.It possible to get intimidated based on one's steemit asset.By protecting the wallet one more benefit is there.

I know many Steemians who do not get the reward they deserve for their good posts just because of one thing.The viewers immediately look at one's reputation..If it is somewhat okay then they click on their name and visit their wallet..If the steem power is high they will engage with the post even if it is worthless!

By protecting the wallet,the people have no other way but may have to engage in the quality posts by means of comments or upvotes.So the meaning of 'reward pool' will also come do justice!

I'm completely on par with your thought and will do whatever I can from my end!

You are very correct, I have been thinking about this for long. Privacy is needed in everything most especially when it comes to monetary issues.

I had the reflex to look at your wallet because of your article.
I guess that people will and do judge posts by peoples wallet size so I think that it would be a good Idea for this technologie to be implemented on STEEMIT. Maybe this new fonction should be optional .

  ·  3년 전

Some tips:

  1. Don't post with your real name. Then NO body wil know who you are.
  2. Fences and guards never stoped someone extorting anyone. Extortion happens like you said with images of the kids or wife. A fence can't stop those.
  3. A security guard is nice but when you have millions the thieves and criminals don't come alone. This aint a movie where steven segal powns the intruders. One bullet is enough.

The only real way to not show what you have:

  1. Take your money of your steem account into a bittrex account and no one wil know what you have?
  2. Or vote for a hidden away system of savings.

I believe some of the beauty of steem is that you can see what someone has on there balance. What there voting power is, and who you are dealing with. If you hide the balances of people but not the voting power what is the logic behind it then?

If i vote up someone for 3.5$ they know i have a balance of 15.000 (in your system they would think i have) but in essence it can be delegated.

This idea is not thought threw enough in my opinion.

Privacy is an very real issue and many seem to not understand it yet unfortunately.. I have been researching privacy for a long long time and we need it!

Thanks for the post and that you educate people, this is necessary.

As a tip I want to say, #Verge #XVG is a very good privacy coin, hides transactions and user completely. stealth address + tor + ip obfuscation etc etc.. should be implemented like this or hide the sum on the account for people in a OPTIONAL way.

My two cents :)
// @sanktnico

It's intentionally designed this way. For a number of very important reasons.

  1. It's more difficult to secure your property if it's secret than if it's hidden.

People will be able to tell if you have money, simply by how much money your posts are making. They won't need to have the next step verification of what's actually in your wallet.

Having everything transparent can actually secure your property better. If there is theft you know exactly what account it went to and would be able to call upon developers and witnesses to rectify it, and have verifiable proof of fraud.

  1. Nothing is ever secret from everyone.

Hiding account balances only hides it from some people, not all people. It's a public blockchain, and it would be impossible to completely hide account balances. This creates a situation where some have knowledge others don't. This knowledge could be used for a number of nefarious purposes.

  1. We're working towards a more open, transparent and abundant society.

This space has the ability to radically transform our society. A society where there is more transparency. Lack of transparency, especially financial, is at the root of our oligopolies. Building in anything less-transparent would be a devolution.

  1. It's not the transparency that is the problem.

If you're concerned about extortion. We need better systems of returning funds to proper owners. Being able to petition the community in a decentralized manner to arbitrate disputes of fraud or extortion.

We need to keep evolving the system so that it can be a viable alternative to a world gone mad. Not bring it back to the literal dark ages of opaqueness.

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You make logical points, but you’re missing a fundamental factor that trumps all else—and that’s freedom & tyranny. Crypto and blockchain technology, if and when implemented correctly, has the ability to free us from the world’s abusive power structures, which ultimately makes the world a better place for all of us. “Full transparency” is not a virtue for freedom when you’re referring to THE PEOPLE. It’s only virtuous when applied to a power structure. Citizen privacy is completely essential in order to have freedom. Without it, what’s to stop a tyrannical government from strong-arming me after they lookup my public net worth?

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um, the government strong arms people now, and no bank data is safe from them.

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" Without it, what’s to stop a tyrannical government from strong-arming me after they lookup my public net worth?"

Not having a tyrannical government... Privacy is only important if there is said government. If we're creating a world beyond one, then we don't require that. In the meantime, if you require privacy, use one of the multitude of privacy centric coins.

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It's intentionally designed this way...

Yes - which means we never got to vote on it for concensus. It was there from the beginning. However it does not need to remain that way.

If you want to display your money in your livingroom window, and I want to put my money in a safe - does it matter that we want options?

I call for a vote

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Therefore I vote...

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you voted when you joined. if you didn't like it, you shouldn't have joined.

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Right, I completely understand what you're saying. A vote is great. But, it's also important to understand the intention behind it. This is precisely the problem many scholars cite when it comes to democracy. That people may be susceptible to ill-informed decisions.

I was simply attempting to mitigate this outcome by providing the reasoning for its existence.

Yes. At first I vote for @fyrst-witness. You are absolutely right. We need security of our account. I watched the video. It is very motivational. In my own point of view that we need take right decision in right time. Thanks for sharing the valuable blog.

Gotta disagree here. The transparency of the Steem blockchain is a feature, not a bug.

The crypto market is just a tiny little baby, despite its explosive price growth over the past year. Only a fraction of a percent of the world population owns crypto, and even less people actually understand the technology and its future ramifications. As we go forward in time, and crypto gains more and more share, and governments and banks (same thing) try harder and harder to “regulate it”, privacy will move to the forefront of everyone’s concerns. Smart investors own all the privacy coins right now—monero, verge, pivx, cloak, and company, because they see this future as clear as day. I appreciate your post, bringing this issue to light for steemit, as the sooner they adopt a philosophy of privacy being a very top concern, the better.

To be honest, the transparent wallets are what put me over the edge when deciding to get started on Steemit. This is what makes it unique and very attractive for bean counters like myself! Safety is always a concern when it comes to money. I’ve been robbed before when I was in high school on a sporting trip, so I know this feeling all too well. However, cashing out of Steem Power will take some time!! Thanks for the post!

Great advice. The world is a crazy dangerous place. Stay safe Steemians...

Great post. Agree 100%

The problem with the world is that everyone does not have a brain, but everyone does have a tongue.

Its fun seeing what other steemians have in their wallets but then again maybe im just a snoop lol :P

It certainly is a fair point. Privacy is something we take for granted, it has no value in the eyes of most because we accept the lies from the elite that its ok that they infringe our privacy on the grounds "you shouldnt mind if you dont have anything to hide". I hate that expression!

My privacy is my privacy. We have doors on our house, and shudders on our blinds for a reason. There are aspects of life we acknowledge deserve discretion, and our finances DEFINITELY should be one such area.

Yes for safety, but also just because ITS MY MONEY! Why should anyone be allowed free access to my bank account value?

I really, really, really do not get why Steemit allows wallet visibility to anyone/everyone.

good info

This is one of the reasons I always keep my online balance below 5000 steem power and move liquid balances swiftly. An account that keeps balances private would be ideal. I think part of the appeal for normal people and for crooks alike is being able to see how much other people have and are getting from posts.

here is an example of exactly why this is a good idea... this in the news today:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/technology/virtual-currency-extortion.html

  ·  3년 전

I can dig it...There's a lot of great comments on this post.
Newq

You have thought some remarkable point, that i really appreciate with you, but you have to follow in marketing system on the current worlds to determine ownself

we should always stay safe we don't know the intentions of others

It's also nice that Steemit discloses where you send and receive money from. You can confirm the legitimacy of contest and see where people are receiving their funding from.

That's some good thought.

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This comment has received a 1.74 % upvote from @speedvoter thanks to: @xerox-bru.

that is why some people have more then one account

Again vary help full post @fyrstikken

I follow your every post , your post help my steemit work .