The art of Shitposting?

3년 전

No, I don't mean you, regular Shitposter, you are off this category, yours is not art.

Recently I've seen some of the best content creators here on Steemit - some of them with whom I've chatted a lot about this subject - shitpost.

I did it quite recently, perhaps you saw my post called drunk Eric.

But you see, this is why it is called art, because shitposting is something - in my perhaps full of myself and egocentric opinion - reserved only for those who continually create the best content they can. Those who day after day spend hours preparing a post and strive to always have top quality content on their blog.

Those who, when they post something below the quality they have their audience used to, receive a handful of direct messages from their friends. Messages like "wow, nice shitpost man, you really overdid yourself this time!.

That happens only because this behaviour on these people - myself included - is something that sets off those who follow us and perhaps have us as role models.

Are we losing faith in the system? Do we feel like we are falling behind compared to others on the Steemit race? Did we realize it doesn't matter what we post, we might get rewards on the post?

After all, a lot of people vote for the person and not the Steemian and, as we have other people used to our top tier content, they might not even check out our posts, because they are certain we create good content.

Well, some people might think one of these reasons are behind that lone shitpost surrounded by all those great posts we try to create but, to be completely honest I think it's something quite different.

I've only done 1 or 2 shitposts (according to myself, altought I may be wrong according to you, sweet reader) in my whole Steemit life and I don't plan to do another in a long time.

The reason I made that shitpost I believe it's the same of those top content creators that have done it in the past: Sometimes you just want to share something small, something simple, an idea or picture that could be considered as low tier content, but you don't do it because you have a quality status to mantain. I know I've done it, I could post 5 times a day everyday but I don't do it, because I want to keep my average post at least great tier.

The thing is, during these past days I have learned that if you create awesome content day after day, you are entitled to shitpost once in a while - this while being one every month or two, at the minimum. This doesn't mean I'm encouraging you to do it, but let's stop being hard on ourselves, if you feel like sharing something small, a developed idea that you think is low tier, a set of photographies without any text, do it. Give yourself a break, it's not like you are going to shitpost every day - I certainly hope that - but also, that one shitpost is not going to destroy everything you've created over the past months or year.

That's the reason I've voted some of those shitposts I saw the past weeks, because the authors deserve a break after making top posts after top posts.

What do you think? Am I delusional? Do you concur with this idea? Is this something you can get behind?

Oh yeah, I'm talking to you, top content creators, I would like to hear your take on this, I'm not talking to the regular shitposters, those can go shove their bad quality content up their blogs.

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Lol sad but true regarding some people :/

AMEN to this!

Have we ever talked about this subject before, or are you just exactly on the same page with me on this? So weird!

You know I create a lot, and post a lot, every day, varying content, mostly photography related, and I use the majority of my day for making that, and making it better. It is quite tiring at times and I definitely shitpost here and there to give myself a little break.

I'm so happy that you, as a very big and known user, have the balls to say out loud that sometimes you just want to share a simple selfie and call it a day!


mmm you sexy beast :P Not only beautiful, but smart and witty!


I'm sure that comment was meant to go to @anomadsoul! ;)

If I feel like heck I just need a break or something just taking way to long for me to get out I’ll toss up something sweet and short. A 50 word story or a short update. I’m also a nobody and I rather have a few blogs a week than just a single one or none at all. If I go missing for a week(s) working on a longer term post people tend to forget about you and move on when you’re a little nothing.

I get push back. People unfollow, stop auto upvoting, make a comment about it. It’s whatever in my eyes they can do what they choose. Even more so when that’s the only comment they have made on a blog in months of mine. Content that is different that’s not like everyone else takes a while in both going out and getting that fresh experience and creating it.

I can’t every day put out a 3k word blog with a dozen or more photos or screenshots. I can’t pour 10 hours into a single guide for a game daily. Sometimes gasp my content is less than 1k words with just a couple of photos or screenshots.

It would be soul crushing to try and every week to put in 60 hours into a single game playing it to boredom. Then create that amazing game review with 30 or more screenshots that’s 4k words long. Making other game reviews look like they took all their screenshots in first hour of game play and then wrote based on information they found off a site. Do I wish I had the energy to put out that kind of game review more often? I sure do. I tend to try and break something like that up over course of several weeks so I can enjoy other stuff.

Everyone wants to rush and get something out that same day well that great if your happy using press release screenshots and just write a review based on press releases with an hour of real in game time played.

End of the day I have varying amount of time put into a blog and effort. Some stuff could take me a week(s) to put together or longer. While other stuff just that day. Most days I just want get out and comment and enjoy other people’s content shit or not. Hard to do if your always working on that next “big one.”

You know, I think I'm with you on this one. Day after day, week after week, trending is filled with the most mindless crap imaginable. Those who try their best to post solid content continually deserve to put out the odd shit post without being called out for it.


I'm glad those Steemians are at least sticking around ;)
As there is always a chance that things might get better someday when it comes to quality content.
Personally I gave sbd in almost all of my shitposts, because I kinda felt bad otherwise. However, it really sucks if a quality post is undervalued too much, so a shitpost can even out the losses. :)

I was having similar dilemmas about my progblogs, I try for weekly with them but have been skipping a lot because I figured they qualified as shitposts because I haven't made any discernible progress and I feel bad for the people that have me on autovote or curation trails for whatever reason. Recently decided I would just post it weekly as I'll probably find something to ramble about why I didn't progress as much as I wanted, and maybe they'll forgive me because I post so erratically anyway? XD

And in your case and most of the other people I watch, your shitposts are still better than all the other shitposts out there anyway XP



How many times do I need to tell you that you're too hard on yourself? ;>)


Probably all of the times? I'm trying to be nicer to myself but I have a variant definition for nice XD


  ·  3년 전

El tema de realizar post de calidad, que aporten valor es una parte muy importante de nuestra vida aquí en Steemit. Creo que todos le dedicamos bastantes horas a lo largo de toda la semana a nuestros post y a veces solemos subestimar la importancia del descanso o de los post sencillos. Muchas veces, incluso los sábados y los domingos, continuamos con la mente ocupada pensando en que publicar, cuando publicar… Especialmente nosotros los nuevos que queremos comenzar a tener presencia aquí.
Si creo conveniente que las personas que de verdad crean contenido de valor para comunidad puedan tener sus “shitpost” el problema es cuando todas las personas comienzan a convertirse en shitposters (Y creo que al igual que yo lo has comenzado a ver mucho por aquí)

Now I'm thinking I should start shitposting every once in a while, instead of having weeks without any post..

Vote my shitpost man i'll vote yours

Does it counts for Shit-comments too ?

If everyone tries as the other commenter says to hang with better people than you, i see a problem, because then people who is better than me will be trying to hang with people who is better than them and would not want to be hanging out with people like me who is not better than them, because they would ...

Damn it that's complicated...

Does this qualifies as a shit-comment already?

I was doing something and needed a break and Gina told me you posted...

EDIT: I mean nothing bad about the other comment it just gave me a good conundrum to ramble about...

I pretty much agree with you: it doesn't matter once in a while... the question is what's an acceptable ratio:

  • 90% quality, 10% shit?
  • 80% quality, 20% shit?
  • 70% quality, 30% shit?
  • or proportionally more shit?

Actually having 30% of your posts 'shit' sounds like a too high a percentage.

Freudian slip here maybe:

The thing is, during these past days I have learned that if you create awesome content day after day, you are entitled to shitpost once in a while - this while being one every month or two, at the minimum.

i think you've got a good point here, i saw that post "drunk Eric" and i found it hilarious, obviusly, because i've been following you for a time now, and i know youre human, that post makes your "Steemian" more human, just like you said people needs to take a break sometimes, i did recently a post, its just a drawing + a few words, no process or anything, and as you said, i was afraid, is it good for me to post this? should i post it? i dont really think is shitpost, but maybe someone else would think it is. it is a political drawing, and i really dont like politics, but they afect me just as much as anyone else, so i said to myself, ok this is my way to express about politics so F... it hahaha , i dont think your delusional, i think we are humans, and as complex we might get to be, we are simple as well, so i think its not a bad thing if you've been postign interesting content, educational, inspiring, for months, and then for a day you just post your picture and earned something, i think you've been working for that, and as you said, as long as you dont turn your blog into only this kind of "shitpost" i dont see the problem, you get what you deserve, you earned, now enjoy it, and keep posting good thoughts.

Shit Posts happen. Sometimes an idea is better in my head than it ends up being.

Regarding content, if you like a post upvote it, if you don't, do not.
If you see something overpaid flag it, it is just that simple.

Nobody needs to worry about anyone else's shit post unless it is abusive.

Those who autovote are contributing to shit posting as much as the shit posters them selves. :)


That's why I stopped taking part of voting trails and selling my vote. I mean, my vote worth nothing, but I feel like even though I'm not giving money to them, I'm somehow supporting bad content on the platform. It's like saying "Hey, your post is great, keep it up!" when you really don't mean that.

I run my blog. If I want to paint a massive picture of shit and put a kitty on top, then hit that post button, so what! If people vote and feel entertained, so what! That's why I did it in the first place! I'm talking with exclamation points! Dammit! Nice post! I'll just keep going! What else can I say! What's up buddy! How's the family! Doing good! That's good! Later!

Just what i have been in the past few days. Been a perfectionist kind of, i always want to do better than my last. If it doesn't feel better or close, then i keep working on it or discard it.

Just thinking to myself. "Don't work yourself up, boy. Many are doing good with shitposts".
As you said we can lessen our set standard once in a while. And also post something fun, personal or totally funny.
Been too serious with quality contents everytimes takes away the fun from the platform. Steemit can also be our social media, and not only for educational contents.

So shitposting is allowed...

I don't think there's anything wrong with occasionally shit posting. Especially if you make it entertaining. Hell, there are literal people who have made a career out of shitposting because they did it so well and made so many people laugh.

I think there's a big difference in shitposting, and if you're on the wrong side of it and doing it everyday, then yeah, go fuck yourself. If you do it every once and awhile or even daily but it's funny or entertaining then I'm quite fine with that so long as it's original content.

I can relate. I made science posts which took me 3 days to get finished. After 2 months doing this, I got a depression attack and didn't want to post anything, I couldn't even concentrate on what I was doing. So I decided to take a break, and out of the fear of being judged and maybe down-voted I didn't post anything for 2 weeks. Then 4 days ago I made a post explaining the reasons I'm going to create some non-quality post once in a while. Sometimes when we make difficult posts they are not even taken into account, so we also deserve a break to keep our blog active instead of not posting anything.

I made a couple shitposts last days, and it was a relief for me, I was like "Oh, this is so easy, lol". I hope the people that follow me will understand this...

now that I read this I feel more confident on making shitposts once in a while when I don't feel motivated to make something better :)


Yeah. I can relate to this! It's all about motivation and this platform sure gives a lot of challenges and (false?) promises you need to get over first before enjoying it again. All the best to you!

Nice. I'd love to see a follow-up post regarding shitcurating too. Like upvoting based on thumbnail and/or title only. I've been guilty of that, but trying to break the habit.


Hah! I think you just gave me a very good idea my friend, thanks!


Sweet! Looking forward to it...

I perfectly understand your point of view and it's true that anyone need a break from time to time and make a shitpost.
The thing is that for myself, is that fear - I barely started earning a bit on my posts even thought my posts aren't seen by too many people - I'm tired to get all these messages like oh Gabriela! Your posts are so great and should earn a lot of money and visibility, why it doesn't happen that? - believe me I get this question from people at least 2 times a week and it's really sad so that's why I try not to do a shitpost and still hope to get more visibility one day and for those new who will find out about me to just scroll down on my blog, read about different cool locations while listening to music and drinking a coffee.
Again I totally understand your opinion and I agree with that but I do believe that people need to be brave to do that so they won't lose their audience 😊

I've been on Steemit for about 4 months now and at this stage I don't really know if what I'm posting is good content or not, if I look at it from a reward point, then it's all bad. I know I try really hard, but it takes time to put together what I consider decent content. I have posted one or two shitposts, but then felt really guilty about it because I know I put no effort into it. For the last week or two I've hardly posted at all because I haven't had time and also felt a little disheartened. I know I need to get back on track just need a little inspiration. I've seen some rubbish content that gets loads of votes and comments (note it's not about the payout to's about response) and my content gets a few votes and one or two people that religiously drop a much appreciated comment. Thats what I'm looking for a response, a comment that says "hey well done or interesting". I refuse to give up on trying to produce quality of the content to the best of my ability (which isn't great, but I'm at least trying).


On Steemit it isn't about what you know it's about who you know! Make friends with a few dolphins and you'll be making bux in no time.


Don´t get discouraged, it only takes one good post found by a manual curator to change your steemit life, sometimes only one good post makes someone start following you and keep supporting your posts. So, do you want that manual curator to find a good or a bad post? Which one is it that you´ll post?

I think, therefore I shitpost.


I don´t think, therefore I only shitpost.

Fuck it, if you want to post what you and the dog do while drinking......who is to stop you? Blockchain is eternal, if you are always all business, then you are not being social.....


Right on man, right on. Not everything is business :P

I think the issue if creating good content should be readdress. Many people don't take time to write good content anymore because people don't read post anymore. Majority of upvotes are from bots and trails. Someone once said, steemit is now a community if bots.

Also, majority upvote and read posts on the basis of who the now.


@fatherfaith Yeah, I usually vote on comments that give me solid proof that they read the whole thing... you are right, not a lot of people are reading posts anymore...

I agree, it's fine to do it from time to time, especially if you post regularly and have an audience (not like me).

I do my absolute best to keep the quality high, and I spend a lot of time on writing my posts. But yesterday (after 1 day not posting) I felt the urge to drop one .. I got a high fever and had been in bed for at least 20 hours before I dropped a picture of my 2 year olds creation of clay. You may call that picture with only a few lones of text a shitty post, it was all I could get done. I feel bad if I can't post and I could not resist :)


It happens the same to me, sometimes i feel like "hey, you havent posted in two days, come on!!" And to fight that urge and to try and make a good post even if you are not inspired is hard, very hard, thats why i said "give yourself a break from time to time :D"

I hope my creations doesn't belong to the shit posts you are talking about. I may not be a good writer and may not be able to think of good ideas to post day by day but I did my post on my very best. Hehe! I am still trying to improve the way I write but one things for sure I always do it with all my heart.

I do agree with you. No matter what aspect of life we should always give break to ourselves. It sometimes feels good to just write our hearts out without any pressure. :)

That's true..I agree with you but I think it's like when u have something in mind it's so beautiful and informative but when it comes out on the blog it looks like shit.

That’s an interesting perspective Eric! I feel like this has given me some food for thought on something that I’ve been thinking for a while.

One of my least favourite parts of Steemit is that all of the content that’s I want to post in general is organized the way it is on my feed. I wish we could have more development tools to change the layout and organization of our personal pages a little.

I love to make long photo related tutorials or blogs, I also like to just share a quick picture and an opinion every once in a while through apps such as steepshot. However, sometimes I look at those posts and feel sad that when someone comes to my page, they will only see my latest post as opposed to some of my best posts.

I don’t know if I’d call those posts of mine shitposts 😂😂, but I definitely think I feel what you are saying too! Thanks for sharing and getting me thinking :)


It would be awesome to have an option to see a users top paid and top voted post in top-down order. Just a simple button to push as well as seeing lowest as an option too. That could make a lot more people aware of how to post and how not to.

Steemit is getting harder day by day because people get to post real stuff but nobody will get to notice the post, to me they should be some steemit account saddle with the responsibility of looking out for good content and upvoting them @anomadsoul great post


I put a shitpost up, based on my opinion of course, the other day - the post still took an hour, and actually sits at 109 comments (half are probably mine).

It is tough to lower your standards when you've spent months trying to do the best you can - the feeling being you've earned your status and rewards because of continually making an effort.

But yeah, it takes time, and sometimes I just have an idea that isn't going to produce a detailed piece of work with hours of background work, and I think as one-offs, that's cool. After all, there's a lotta shit out there!


Exactly, this is why I wrote this post, because top content creators think exactly like that, that its virtually impossible for our own standards to post lesser quality posts and that we+d be disappointing us and our readers if we post something "not worthy" of our blog. But yeah, sometimes we just need to give ourselves a very much deserved break.


Yeah it's tough, I think you are right though - those trying their arse off day in day out can afford a break from time to time. Whatever is produced will still beat the average i'm sure!

I stick to short pieces because I think my chance of keeping a reader maybe are low considering my vote is worth 0.04 and it won't help much even if I upvoted their comment they way it 'deserves' after a 45 min read.

I also know getting votes for people like us (those people who take hours to edit one sweet short post only to get cents as rewards) is overshadowed by crappy trending posts fueled by greed with the help of bots.

I can't be here all the time to make more connections and compete with such bullies so I keep deducting my time on a platform that can change my life for the consistent peanuts waiting for a better day.

Do you brother, leave people alone.


Well, its always going to be 100% more peanuts here than in facebook, and people spend hours daily browsing that one.


I dont. But cool.

There’s no problem in making a lesser quality post. There’s a problem though when a post of lesser quality is immediately labeled shitpost.

Sometimes it is important that we step from our pedestal and do accept, that even those who benefit autovotes, are humans, have faults, and are subjected to the world around them. Rather than immediately judging and condemning them, we should try to understand why that happened.

Yet, even when understanding (or disagreeing), we shouldn’t judge them. Instead, before throwing the first stone, we should remember to lead by example. If we can not do that, then we have no right at all to judge. Those who are capable of leading by example, and never do anything wrong, they most likely won’t bother condemning and judging either. They have no time for that.


Exactly, a lesser quality post doesn´t mean shitpost, we all know what a shitpost is. On the other hand that´s true, we are all humans and we make mistakes from time to time, we have flaws.

@anomadsoul From what I have seen recently on steemit. The main problem is some people post very mediocre content and use upvotebots to take their posts to the trending page. And people who post quality content cannot get the exposure they deserve. I myself have have been trying a lot to get some exposure on my post. Haven't had any luck so far. I post my travel experiences of my world ride. I mean my content might not be the best but it's definitely better than some of the posts I have been seeing on the trending page.


Yes, that is why i dont like bidbots that do not operate with a whitelist of author who truly deserve rewards. Don´t lose hope, keep creating awesome content and it will eventually be rewarded, I started the same as you.

Are we losing faith in the system? Did we realize it doesn't matter what we post, we might get rewards on the post?

Spot on! Spot on! Spot on! I've seen really top tier creators post about shit loads of same content for the past weeks. It's saddening. I used to really admire their dedication and hard work. And I don't really mind if they post low tier content once in a while. even once a week is okay with me. Just that, I miss the things they passionately do.


@olaivart the key here is to try and not copy that behaviour even if those guys are doing it every day, we are better than that!

I don't know your definition of shit post, is it by the quantity or quality? However, what maybe a shit post to one person maybe a quality post to another. Why not we relax, and post that tiny ideas we have inside of us.


@mcluz Well, I think we all know a shitpost when we see it, doesn´t have to do with quantity or quality specifically.

  ·  3년 전

You got a 100.00% upvote from @ocdb courtesy of @anomadsoul!

I've published a meme I created, and I've done one or two smaller posts. We're they low tier? I don't know. Like everything else here, it depends on everyone's definition and even that's going to be subjective.

I do agree, though, it is okay to change things up a little and even experiment with other types of posts. While Steemit is a long form blogging site, it doesn't necessarily mean it is that exclusively. And again, just because it's an image or a few lines doesn't automatically make it unworthy of a vote. It's just likely to get as many as something else, and too many, as you point, will cause people to stop.

With autovotes, though, it's harder for me to justify letting down too much, if at all, because I know those folks would be trusting me to do what's become known as my best each outing. However, for anyone else who actually might look at the post, they're free to upvote, not, or even flag.


It all depends on what you have your audience used to, you are right, it is subjective.
Autovotes somehow become chains, because you know you´ll get votes, you feel you must deliver awesome content, so its a double edge knife, and i like it.

I am really sorry, I will try harder :(


@karenb54 hahaha I didn´t meant you :P


Yeah you did, I can read between the lines.. heehee

I know people who already have a lot of time here.
they have already made friends, now they post shit and vote for them.


@zouls Happens everywhere, its human nature to have a preference for friends rather tha for strangers.

Hahaha I think people that always make an effort to post good stuff have earn the right to do 'shitposts' sometimes. But those whose entire run on steemit is based on them are unforgettable.


Word. I can´t stand those people posting lame content and bidboting it to trending day after day.


There's a lot of them unfortunately

Perhaps, as you have very rightly pointed out to me recently, we should not judge people so easily. For me this is more easily said than done, so perhaps the occasional shitpost from someone we like and admire because of their content, can actually be a personal check to withhold from judgment. In the end, we dont know the background. We only see the interface that this person shows. Perhaps the occasional shitpost or lashing out is more a sign of something else going on. And then we should definitely be mor eencouraging than judging.

It's better to hang out with people better than you. Pick out associates whose behavior is better than yours and you'll drift in that direction.

This is why I have a second account, so I can make lower-effort posts without feeling like I'm disappointing my main audience/autovoters.

Well, it's why I started a second account. Now it's also turning into a curation initiative cause anything worth doing is worth overdoing.


Sometimes alt accounts are the answer, as long as it doesn´t become an alt circle jerk :P

HEY! I make a shit post every single day :P At least I put a little effort into mine though hehehe


Bad Steemian, bad steemian.

Well, I now know that I suck at shit posting. The only place I’m going to post my shit is in the toilet. It can trend there on it’s own 💩


@fukako lol, so graphic this comment XD

I KNEW you had something coming up to make a genuine statement about "your shitpost" @anomadsoul.

For me, and bear in mind that I am kind of new on Steemit. Photography is something I have fully embedded in my life. Even though I might be a 'fast' editor or a good clicker. The time that I have invested in learning, creating and fine-tuning those photographs took a long process. Let alone the time to select photographs can be a time-consuming process as well. Writing about it? I learned it here.

While the time slowly drifted away since I got here on the platform, I have noticed several things. Some posts that I did, required a lot of time, some didn't. And sometimes even the 'quick posts' received a bigger reward than the ones I have forged into long reads with multiple photographs of at least the same quality.

At first, I thought, why? But then I started to see it from another perspective and came to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter 'what' you post as long as you create solid and legit posts crafted from a genuine piece of mind.

Thanks for sharing you drunk asshole. Go do more shitposts if you are able to. You totally deserve to have a break for all the effort I have seen you doing here on the platform.


There is a very on point idea about the 80% - 20% that @luzcipher told me. Basically is, 20% of your posts will give you 80% of your rewards, which is very true for most people on the platform. As you say, some posts you are expecting them to hit double or triple digits and they don´t and the other way around :D

I try my best, I do shorter articles too using steepshot but I always make the effort to edit and increase and add maybe additional pics or info, so they're not like the one or two posts I do a week that are meant to be longer... still I think all of them have been meaningful... In fact I'm struggling with my time and I'd be happy to be easy on me and admit I can take a break and do a short one from time to time LOL


@yidneth We have different platforms to upload content, steepshot, dlive, busy etc, and there is nothing wrong with using them specifically for what they were created. Yesss, taking breaks is something we all need every once in a while!


Yes I know. I like to build my steepshot gallery and thought maybe it is good to post smaller posts inbetween haha. But then I go and post more lol. I tend to overthink I admit 🌱

Someone should say it, thanks for sharing!

We can say that shitposting kind of sarcasm.
Addresses sensitive issues in a comical way that reaches directly to the recipient's mind but i speaks of good content shitposting.


@soufianechakrouf I think shitposting has more to do with the quality and the time spent to make a post, not about the subject.

I think it's fair to say "once every month or so" haha... I guess it would depend on everyones opinion, is a one picture post with a paragraph of quality text considered bad? Or is a great video with no text considered bad? I think it's different for everyone, unless your a regular bad poster...But I understand he "give yourself a break" kinda cool and understandable.


I think that standard is set by your previous posts, you know? If you write 5k word posts and then one day you write a 100 word post, then that may be considered a shitpost by YOUR standars, whereas someone who always posts 100 word posts, that one post will just be average. The key is, to what standard do you have you audience used to?

Did you know that everyone for every shit post will get an average of 10 new followers?

I think that's what the fact of voting is not? That you do it because you liked the publication but not by obligation, because for that you are investing time and money here, to vote who you want, so the post is a shit or not


Yeah, to vote on proof of brain posts, that´s the idea.

Hello, Eric! Personally, I do not wait for luck to come and my messages will be evaluated. But I do not allow myself to write anything horrible, it's better not to write anything at all. But what I'm passionate about is fashion and gardening, I want to fix it here. Even for my three readers)).


Yes yes, better not to post than to post low quality stuff... but hey, once in a while if you feel like sharing a picture or an idea don´t be too hard on yourself! And im pretty sure you have waay more than 3 readers :D


This is only the appearance of well-being)). I bought the promotion on https: //, but in connection with the unstable course of SBD and STEEM, I stop doing it, unfortunately ...