Steem(it) Town Hall with @ned hosted by @aggroed and @llfarms and a personal perspective on the challenges we face.

9개월 전

The Peace Abundance and Liberty Network PALnet is the largest off chain Steem community and we're housed in Discord. Inside of the Discord channel is a Broadcast station called msp-waves where we host talk and music shows. I've hosted a show on msp-waves for over a year called the Minnow Mayor Town Hall. @llfarms recently joined as co-host. On this last one we had a pretty large audience and as per usual any member of the audience is welcome to put a "1" into chat to indicate they would like to go on air. Tonight I was joined msp-waves station manager @r0nd0n, Minnow Support Project Senior Moderator @clayboyn, dlux founder @disregardingfiat, Steamspeak founder @frystikken, and Steemit CEO @ned joined as well.

Ned chose to come to Discord and this show on his own. I'm grateful that he did and we can start a conversation. I have a responsibility to the stakeholders here to communicate to the best of my ability the things that I'm personally looking for to come out of any discussions between Steemit, the witnesses, large steem power holders, community leaders, and the community at large. This is my best attempt to do that. I'm doing my best in the following paragraphs to only speak for myself.

Background

Ned and Dan started a coin. To act within the law, but circumvent massive regulatory hurdles they decided to launch the coin with public mining rather than an ICO. They intentionally limited the number of people who could mine by restricting information regarding how to mine the coin in an effort to have the majority stake to then spend it on onboarding and chain development. Anyone who was an experienced token miner who happened to be following the bitcointalk forums regarding the mining opportunity could setup a miner and go. So, it was publicly available, but most people couldn't. I saw Dan (acting as thereverseflash) on bitcointalk seem to help a few miner's who were close, but struggling, but I didn't see any evidence of a tutorial or the like on how to mine.

This system created some distrust of the process because of the exclusivity. It was made worse when a bug in the code would require a hardfork or a chain restart. Steemit opted for a restart. That made a lot of early miners rip shit angry. They started mining, they put in a lot of energy to make it happen, they had costs, and it seemed like an assault on their coin ownership to simply restart. An early attitude was "Steemit is just going to keep restarting the chain if they don't get the high stake they want." The "ninja mine," the chain restart, and the distribution of Steem (meaning the concentration of steem in the hands of a single entity that can alter chain governance if they choose to vote at any time for witnesses) has lead to low levels of investor confidence in the market.

At the time Dan (thereverseflash) was saying that the mined stake would be used to onboard new users and develop the code for the blockchain. In the 2017 roadmap it was unilaterally amended and put on the chain as this-

As a positive consequence of pre-mine there's a theory that Steem isn't a security, which removes a lot of regulatory challenges. As negative consequence the distribution was such that Steemit mined close to 75-80% of the steem power. The remaining Steem went a very narrow group of miners and developers. To make matters worse the platform had an insane inflation rate. The amount of steem getting manufactured was enormous and it was stake weighted. Stake weighted means if you owned steem you got more steem. The price plummeted, a holders value stayed roughly the same, but the sheer amount of steem grew tremendously. It led to my comical post of how I made 7 cents in 5 posts.

The Catalyst

There's been a lot of activity recently on the chain and in off chain communications between a variety of community stakeholders. The powder keg seems to be not just the bear market, but how Steem continues to slip in the rankings on coinmarketcap showing that we're dropping faster than other chains. Steem has one of if not the largest active community, a fantastic chain, and something like half of the leading Dapps in the cryptosphere, and yet we're in the 50s. Investors, dapp builders, community leaders, and steem power holders keep telling me things are broken!

This precipitous decline is exasperated by Steemit selling roughly 800,000 steem per month on the market to partially cover operating costs.

The catalyst was when johan, a previous steemit employee and a non-witness, decided to clone steem, create what he called Hardfork 21: Freedom which "[if] this hardfork is adopted by witnesses will set all Steemit Inc. controlled accounts authorities to the null key." It was based on a previous though unimplemented hardfork code change that was written by steemit at a previous time that intended to set authorities to the null key for a different list of accounts. Steemit has known control over at least 70M steem and there's 292M steem in the world. So, this hard fork is targeted at 25% of all the known steem power and mentions the accounts owned by steemit exclusively.

Major Grievances

Ned, here are my major personal concerns.

I'm worried by financial mismanagement at Steemit Inc; specifically regarding the use of pre-mined stake. In 2018 the deliverable put out by Steemit Inc was hardfork 20. The start of it felt disastrous and more to the point if that's really the only deliverable it cost on the order of 10,000,000 Steem to create and launch HF20 and host steemit.com infrastructure. That's insanely expensive and I can't support support even a 10th of that cost, especially during the price highs of 2018.

Refusal to communicate and ineffective communication - Rare communication from a CTO would be fine. Rare communication from the CEO and defacto overall community leader is inexcusable. Particularly, announcing livestreams, abandoning them, and providing no further announcement is flatly unprofessional. In order to get you to engage it appears there has to be a threat that one of your former employees put on the table to fork out 70M steem. It shouldn't take that to get you to talk to the people using the tools Steemit creates.

Mass adoption has stalled - You built the most commonly used App in the crypto sphere and then sunset it. HF20 allows for discount account creation tokens, but the flagship app of the platform doesn't let you claim or use them and effectively we're in the same spot as a community where onboarding new users is still a bad and unclear experience. People are leaving the platform as a whole, not just because of the bear market, but because there's no marketing, the news cycle has been strongly negative about us, investor sentiment is weak, and you seem tone deaf to it all.

"It's open source code with a closed source repository" While the code is open source everything about it feels closed source. There's almost no insight other than what is put into github, which isn't a place that the vast majority of steemians visit. There's extremely little communication from the dev team, and my previous experience trying to pry that communication open forces me to interpret it as extreme to the point of xenophobia against non Steemit employees. We're trying to ask questions and get involved withe the code and changes. The response is frankly hostility and dismissive. It would be one thing if development was flying off the shelf. It's something entirely when deliverables appear infrequently and recent deliverables are met with community dissatisfaction.

Requests rather than Complaints

I believe strongly in this technology as a way to spread Peace, Abundance, and Liberty. I believe Steem can be the foundation of a better world. I want to see this be as successful as possible, and that means I want to see Steemit and development here be as successful as possible. It also means that I'm willing to go to extremes to make this project successful. I've learned over the years if you want another party to do something the trick is to make it as easy as possible, as clear as possible, and beneficial as possible.

Here are my hopes and requests:

Improved Communication - As I have been asking for over a year I'm again asking for a constant public 2-way town hall style dialogue between you and the community in PALnet, Steamspeak, and other Discord groups where the public frequently congregates. You said you'd bring that up with your team. I hope it turns into a regular conversation. I've already heard concerns that the second you feel you can you'll bail on it that you will. I urge you to set a time weekly, biweekly, or monthly where you'll field open ended questions from the community just like we did last night. Then STICK WITH IT!

Structural Change - I don't think Steemit has the capacity to be both the leading developer of blockchain code and manage all other aspects of the chain. I think it's better to shift towards a more decentralized model favored by lovers of blockchain technology. The proposal I've been floating around can be found here. I plan to formally put that out into as a proposal this week and have a meeting about it the Feb 2nd at 1pm EST 1800 UTC held in PALnet.

By moving Steem Power from @Steemit to a community managed account and setting up committees I think we can collectively get better, faster, cheaper development and grow this community faster.

Essentially the plan would be to open up governance to anyone in the community that wants to participate. Form committees with precise operating objectives that have organizational structure needed to be productive, and set an army of Steem community lovers with defined objectives to make change happen. I think what the anons call "mass fuckery" will lead us to mass adoption a million times faster than one company acting in competition with it's community ever could.

In short, I want to see the mined stake and Steemit development efforts merge into community governance while taking things like marketing and business development off of Steemit's plate entirely.

I think when you first reacted to this you thought it excludes you, but I would want you to personally look into that document, see how you could amend it to cooperatively participate. I don't hate you. I think you're a little awkward at times, but I think you have an exceptional vision. I think you're a asset to the community. Ironically I don't think you see yourself as part of that community. So, when I say it should be community driven you think "but then I'm not a part of that." That has to change. You're a central part of this community, but we need a different organization to grow.

With structural changes in place I think we can address the remaining components.

We can open up community development to the community and hopefully get new code developed that has had more eyes on it and likely to be less buggy as a result.

I think with a community effort we can spend less money to get more businesses building apps on the chain and more communities forming here, which can help mass adoption.

I think with more people having a say in how the mined stake is spent it's more likely to be spent in a way that this community consents to.

This is my home

I pledge to work to the best of my ability to bring about a cooperative agreement where this chain and this community can grow and the coin can moon.

Call to the community (this includes Steemit) for action

Please read this: https://hackmd.io/EzrGbFQdQ0yGRtrx4lGQ3w?edit. Think about how you can fit into it or what changes you would need to consent to partaking in it.

Join me for a discussion in PALnet on Saturday Feb 2nd at 1pm est 1800 UTC where interested parties can self select to work on various parts of what we need to grow this chain.

Partake in CONSTRUCTIVE conversation about how we can work collectively to moon. Cause remember... WE ALL GO TO THE SAME MOON!

With Love,

Aggroed

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The catalyst was when johan, a previous steemit employee and a non-witness, decided to clone steem, create what he called Hardfork 21: Freedom which "[if] this hardfork is adopted by witnesses will set all Steemit Inc. controlled accounts authorities to the null key.

The man is a genius. I'm already spreading the news on twitter :)

steem-golden-age.png

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well really if @freedom and @blocktrades support since they such control over top 20 rankings


Screenshot_2019-01-16 Witness Voters Summary (Updated Weekly) (updated weekly).png

http://www.steemreports.com/witness-voters/

and wasn't it @dan who proposed nullifying steemit inc accounts and wasn't it about witness voting since steemit inc fully controlled previously

also it seems this is too little too late as the majority has already been cashed from steemit ic accounts already over the last 2 years not to mention all the farming accounts

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too little too late as the majority has already been cashed from steemit ic

I rather do too little too late than nothing too early ...

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i didn't mean it shouldn't be done,
but that if it were say one year ago when the millions were cashed out through the @tostitos account would be vastly different as this coincided with the massive rise in prices and the drop off in the quality of content and flag management on the platform that barely exists today in comparison

It was based on a previous though unimplemented hardfork code change that was written by steemit at a previous time that intended to set authorities to the null key for a different list of accounts

Actually I believe it was based on a Steemit-developed fork which WAS implemented. I could be wrong though, I haven't reviewed the code fragments personally and have heard this stated by others.

Rare communication from a CTO would be fine. Rare communication from the CEO and defacto overall community leader is inexcusable

I would say this depends actually. CTO can be a communications driver and this works quite well for some other companies and crypto projects, particularly when the CTO is a visionary with good communications skills and communication is development-focused (such as when the platform is immature and in a phase of constant development). What is really more important is that there be someone doing it.

HF20 allows for discount account creation tokens, but the flagship app of the platform doesn't let you claim or use them and effectively we're in the same spot as a community where onboarding new users is still a bad and unclear experience

Add to this that the @steem account has stockpiled about 30k free account tokens, and rather than loosening the restrictions and allowing more users to sign up, in fact there have been fewer, and now there is talk of transitioning to a paid signup model. This is insanity.

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I'm glad all this talk is on the table, I was calling for this a month ago.

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This is insanity.

Indeed! As if half of the world would be waiting to join STEEM. We urgently need new users, much more than they need us - so we should make it as easy and pleasant as possible for them to join! Even if it is for free, I always have to work hard to convince new people to create a STEEM account. Most of them wouldn't sign up if the first thing they had to do was paying for it.

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I have had to pay to open accounts for others, because I knew if they waited for @steemit to open their accounts, they would have lost interest and probably ignored the email after waiting for weeks.

Sometimes it feels like they brainstormed all the things that would prevent new users, almost as affectively as they made it to mine the coin, that has created the skewed distribution of STEEM power amongst users.

Thank you for the live-streamed discussion. @aggroed we've read the initiative and we're interested to see how we can fit in (or otherwise) towards a formation of a "Steem Council".

@aggroed, this is a fantastic initiative!

I actually don't need to add anything since you've put what matters right on point. But I want to mention that I'm interested in taking action in your committee proposal.

I will take some time to reflect which kind of committe fits best to my strength & knowledge, but so far the dApp aspect is something I could see myself in, since I'm already focusing on it due to SteemApps.com.(and the connections with it to multiple other dApp sites â state of the dapps, dapponline, dapp.com, etc)

But in any way - I'm also looking forward to see, what @ned has planned with his Mission Value Vision (MVV) document, coming soon.

With that said, thank you for your commitment and if anybody has 50 minutes, then please listen to the recording at the beginning of this post. It's worth it!

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i personally look forward to whatever bullshit story @ned's team has this time

i hope they put more effort than the last
( ͡ᵔ ͜ʖ ͡ᵔ )

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i was meaning everything @ned says in talks seems closed in to certain points and phrases as if scripted by others and he finds difficulty talking around

p.s due to miscroll i only noticed the video was here not to come lol

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What a great initiative @aggroed!
I just listened to the entire recording and am happy i did.

Nice move from you to get on voice @ned and good to hear you’ve recovered from your illness! Be careful with your resources 😉

You all provided some very valuable input with regards to more interaction between Steemit, Inc and the community. A discord run by the HQ is actually overdue and would be a true win-win for all participants. Also having a roadmap with those ‘goals’ you mentioned Ned would be a great adding and valuable step towards more transparency.

In the end it may be your vision, Ned - but you may want us to live it up together with you.

Steem on 🤙

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"Be careful with your resources 😉" Yes, according to Chinese medicine, too much masturbation is bad for the kidneys. Take care of yourself @ned

Sorry...that wink...had to...

A Korean summary for the KR community is as below.
한국어 버젼 요약본 만들어놨습니다.
https://steempeak.com/kr/@jayplayco/aggroed

Thanks for your effort and commitment @aggroed.

This is a must listen. Thank you for making it happen.

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Super informative post...the kind of things most of us naive minnows and dolphins had no clue about.

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This is how I summarize the relationship between Ned and the community.

neddontcarejpg.jpg

Nice words were spoken it felt like platitudes.
Look ladies and gents, he is just not that into you. (us)
Doesn't make him a bad guy, we just aren't his thing.

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Ah, @whatsup...I didn't know this was your post til I checked to see who had me lol to the rooftops...still lol...Peace....gotta' love it! I didn't bother to listen...kinda' like the relationship you're over; but, the 'splainin' continues....lol...

I needed a good lol... and this one brought me to tears while uncontrollably l'ing ol...Every time I read this song is called....I start all over again...literally can't stop laughing...tears flowing...I better get a grip before long....lol....

Okay, now...

Peace.

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hahahahah brilliant.

...but I am trying to give him the benefit of the benefit of the benefit of the doubt until Whaleshares or Narrative catch up.

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Sure, like I said... he's not a bad guy. He just doesn't want to be friends.

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my feeling too

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Omg this is brilliant! Sums it up perfectly.

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I find it interesting that Ned is all about building communities but he has zero communication skills. I can't dislike him because he seems to be being true to himself. I'd rather he was real than trying to be something he isn't. Hopefully the Steem community can make up for Ned's obvious faults and he can be free to be Ned. I don't think we can rely on him but maybe something good will come from the world of Ned one day. I can imagine his guitar videos being in a film but the script would be somewhat unbelievable.

Thanks Aggy, this was great! I didn't actually realise Johan was an ex-employee, I just thought he was the genius behind the super excellent dSteem.

Not enough interviews/conversations have the phrase "calm your tits" in them... so good! I think if a regular forum with Ned or proxy were to happen, I'd probably be happier to have just one host who asked questions... having a number of voices pipe in was distracting, especially when we really wanted to hear Ned's answer, not necessarily another person's opinion on why the question is important to be answered. I thought Aggy, that you hit the right tone. I would never want Ned to feel attacked or frustrated, but you also didn't necessarily let him get away with not answering questions.

The Steem Council is a brilliant idea and I really think it'll help the entire ecosystem... at the very least by filtering the best ideas upwards, but obviously providing direction, and herding the cats into the same direction would improve literally everything.

I would hope that the Steem Council could operate regardless of a Steemit SP donation - I imagine a lot of people would be happy to donate their time to help form the direction of the group. Lots of committees work on an elected yet voluntary basis, which is good because I'm not super confident Steemit would part with it's SP if it's required to pay for some of the costs... but the Steem committee should be able to operate as an equal partner to Steemit, not because of it.

I like Ned, but I do think he feels that the community is his customer-base, not his co-investors... and in his defense, there are pockets of the overall community that is a little nuts... but honestly I'd be happy with an AGM or a shareholder quarterly meeting to get an idea of where Steemit is heading, and then for us all to go back to building.

Thanks again Ags.

@aggroed I incredibly appreciate how you handled the conversation - calm tone of voice, keeping a friendly connection at all times, hitting on the difficult questions, very clear thinking.

@ned I really appreciate your openness to suggestions and keeping cool and calm even when faced with difficult questions. I would have enjoyed more concrete answers to some of the questions. I think the next thing we would all like to see is your willingness to engage in crafting and implementing solutions that will benefit everyone.

Good that conversation is starting again. Thanks @aggroed and @ned Next step could be to identify small pieces of work to be done in a joint effort by Steemit Inc and Steem community, be it technical, marketing ...or what ever. There are a lot of ideas put forward in the SOS-forums.

Concerning the fit of committees as organisational form for a decentralised community there has already been an intense and critical debate after the second SOS-forum amongst @bigtom13 @bluerobo @imacryptorick @pennsif @rycharde @starkerz @shadowspub and me.
Check here (3 minutes read) and in the SOS-discord

https://busy.org/@impactn/going-beyond-committees-an-answer-to-pennsif-and-starkerz

As a result just now there is a test run going on for decentralised strategy building without committees.

https://busy.org/@impactn/where-to-go-setting-up-a-strategy-for-the-future-of-steem-test-stage-1

Please check and participate before going along this pathway. I'll be happy to discuss this with you in more detail and definitely offer to be actively involved.

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Thanks for opening this dialogue @aggroed,
It would be so cool to simple see a Steemit inc. town hall discord set up for all of these discussions. Its the most neutral platform for these types of conversations to happen!
Regarding the structure of this on the blockchain: This should be a multi proof of brain free market of ideas super structure, with zero leaders in my view. That is what blockchain is for. If we create committees as part of the top level, we will centralize and produce powerful gate keepers over time (as every other community in history has done). We have an opportunity here to build something with a decentralized community structure, with organized committees operating below this structure voluntarily, not appointed.

@aggroed, thanks for trying to ask the questions that we all wanted the answers to. Your point of view is very similar to my own and i think that the community would love to take over a lot of aspects of the blockchain. I'm afraid Ned didn't fill me with confidence with his answers as there was a lot of fluff and talking around the questions. I hope that i'm wrong but it doesn't look like he is going anywhere fast.

Excellent work, Aggroed. Thank you for continually working to build community and not just point out problems, but always offer solutions as well. I think you summarized things very well including the unmet expectations of the community and a desire (even need) for change. We can not keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

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We can not keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

You can, although that is the classic definition of insanity. 😎

THX a lot aggroed and fyrstikken... great job!! Highly appreciated!

would have wished @ned to give numbers..
cash burn in the past, cash burn now, cash burn after the intended tech changes...
as steem resembles in many ways a kind of stock investment (also it is not a investment in legal terms) I might be a good idea if there would be a kind of quarterly report.. including a letter from ned to his fellow stake holder... reporting some numbers... e.g. cash burn, tokens sold, reserves, etc... and timeline and advances for new developments....

this should help a lot and would be a premier in the crypto space...

MAKE STEEM GREAT AGAIN!
;-)

I have to say, I find some tension, even contradiction, between speaking of moving to a decentralized model, and then turning right around and suggesting we move to a handful of committees to manage all this public Steem Power and mined Steem.

Which is it? Decentralized? Or just moving the central repository of power from Ned to other people?

And how will the elections go? Is it going to be true democracy, in the form of "1 person, 1 vote", which obviously runs into the issue of bots and multiple accounts, or will it be like the Witnesses situation, where your SP allows you to have more say in who gets elected?

In which case, again, more centralization, rather than less. Currently we have the whales and Steemit. Under this proposed system, we'll give the whales the keys to the kingdom.

That is, honestly, more centralization, not less.


I strongly recommend inviting some people who are not invested in Steemit to both help run the system, and to help design a better system. Those people will be unbiased, and be able to make good suggestions. Otherwise, what I'm seeing is, the people with the power making sure they end up with more of it. Yes, you invested in the system, but you're not the only one who have. Outside board-members are a good thing to have.

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Well, I thought of having a voting system where you have to confirm that you are not a bot - and then 1 person 1 vote, would be a real democratic decision.

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Thank you for speaking up. This is my gut feeling too. We need people that are smart and capable and unbiased to be helping those that are already here...invested and otherwise.

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Is it going to be true democracy, in the form of "1 person, 1 vote", which obviously runs into the issue of bots...

This could be an incentive to create an anonymous decentralized CAPCHA system which has been on my mind for well over a year.

I don't have time to listen to the whole thing but I laughed when @fyrstikken jumped in and spoke up and said "We haven't heard from you in like a year! " Hahhahah

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The things he said around the ~26:50 mark were quite hilarious and valid as well.

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Yeah that was pretty hilarious

I will leave my thoughts on this too:

I really like the idea of forming comittees. The only marketing we have right now is word-of-mouth, which obviously will be not successful if the Steem price is down. I have seen a dramatic decrease in posts over the last few weeks, mostly due to the bear market we a currently facing. It is unclear what the future holds for us, whether Steem will become a social media blockchain or will serve for blogging only. A really good initiative is Utopian.io - because it supports meaningful work in the open-source section. Another really good one is Steemstem, supporting science in every aspect. I think in the long run we should definitely form other initiatives for other topics f.ex. Sports, Health, Law, Astronomy, Travel, Lifehacks etc. This platforms are going to enhance the quality of the posts, because everyone tries to do his or her best in order to get a vote. This will inevitably draw more attention from outside to the blockchain. I think just a copy of Facebook or Twitter with a reward system won't be enough to draw the masses to our blockchain. We are going to need a big and vital community, with lots of talent and lots of knowledge in different fields. Knowledge which can only be found on the Steem Blockchain and no where else. We have to face the question, what our Unique Selling Proposition ('USP') really is.

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Thank you for this thoughtful, thorough and candid account/outline @aggroed. I’m sorry I missed the show — I was nose deep in SM book design — didn’t even remember it was Sunday. I’ll have to listen to the recording later. 🙌🏼 Thanks again for all you do. It’s clear that you sincerely care about this place. ⭐️

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Could you please provide me with a link of the recording? I somehow missed the link in the original post.

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Here's the link to the YouTube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP2hMpzgGcQ

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The recording is at the very beginning of this post. Just press the ‘play’ button (arrow pointing right) in the center of the image. 😉

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Alright I see what the issue was. On Partiko the YouTube Video didn't display. Thanks a lot guys! :)

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Thank you @kenny-crane I wasn't able to get to it either.

@aggroed, this is a great post. Thanks for taking the time and energy in standing up for the community.

@ned, you are a visionary, but visionaries can't stand alone. The community is here to support and sustain you, but we can't do that if you're absent.

The Circa team is working on a community organization and project incubation tool could greatly assist in the creation of a decentralized council/committee network as discussed above. Our front-end tools and real-time dashboards will allow Steem users to create and set skills & abilities, adopt Steem #domains, and create Steem-based trust accounts that distributed earnings daily to all council/commitee members. Due to the absence of working SMTs, we are hoping to launch using custom @wavesplatform tokens. We are currently in development but have some of the most basic features working. We hope to have a public Alpha test later this week.

Untitled-1-Recovered.png
https://circa.systems

@Aggroaed, this is awesome step. I carefully went through this https://hackmd.io/EzrGbFQdQ0yGRtrx4lGQ3w?edit# and it made a great sense. It's a well thought out plan for Steem's leadership. However, here are my suggestions while we still hope for the Feb. 2 meet:

  1. Wouldn't you make a roll of viable communities on the Steem blockchain to send in delegates (3). May be, peg a minimum SP to be held by a community qualified to be represented in the Council. The SP, say, 50,000 is such that must have been held at least in the last 2 months. Sometimes, I had made a call for community reorganization and harmonization on the Steem blockchain, if the blockchain must grow sustainably. WHere communities are well managed with regulated (not confined) operation options and ranges, Steem leadership council would be viable.
  2. On the tenure of the proposed Council, 2 years seems too long. There should be openings for periodical evaluation by the users at a shorter duration in order to help check excesses and power corruption.
  3. There also should be measures to break the whale-plankton dichotomy which sometimes enhances user-abuse.

Glad to see our Fyrst in here, Ned came to SteemSpeak the other night and had a conversation. Glad he went on MSP too. Many people have been concerned and maybe this will ease some of their concerns.

@aggroed wants to be CEO while @ned plays guitar. At this point I'd be ok with that. Either that or he needs to do this sometimes and needs @juliekponsford or someone like her to be his community outreach.

I don't dislike @ned, but this conversation is 2 years too late. If he was doing this once or twice a month I'd have no issues with his as a frontman. I'd feel like at least we know what we are doing here, whether we agree or disagree. It's not only a matter of showing up, it's about dialogue and respect towards the community, not treating us like idiots, not sugar coating things, and not being unable to apologize when you mess up. No one cares about how well you play guitar when the platform is falling apart. Fix it and we'll all be happy to watch you play then.

This is by far the best post I have read in my 18 months on Steem. I learned so much from it and have now a better perspective to where we come from and where we should go. Please @ned, listen to Aggroed, who has earned himself a respect here on so many levels, very few others have achieved so far. If Steem wants to thrive, we have to communicate and work together. Let's enfold the real hivemind that is still slumbering here. We have proven before how quickly the community can come together to push Steem. Make use of that!

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I agree, one of the best posts I've read...just shows how poor the steemit comm has been over the years laying out the true history and lay of the land on steem block chain.

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The lack of communication is the biggest insult, people can take bad news, but no news is just wrong

Hi, certainly the downturns in Steem creates distrust and many people go away because of ignorance, this type of conversations help us to understand a little more and to see the effort that some make so that this blockchain can be more reliable and grow.

Hi @aggroed, I'm @checky ! While checking the mentions made in this post I noticed that @disregardingfiat doesn't exist on Steem. Maybe you made a typo ?

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How would we create an open governance? Would it be made up of all people or just the important stakeholders( not my opinion as we ARE ALL IMPORTANT) aka whales and top 20 witnesses? I am curious how you would move forward and what you see a governance.

Your efforts are appreciated man! Thanks for putting together the hackmd content and putting together the plan it entails.

I would remove the word "Committees" and replace it with "Community teams". Committees makes it sound like the worst of communism.

I do think development needs to be opened but the problem is how many groups are willing to fund the initiative to train and bring in new development teams? I would also like to see a research initiative. I mentioned for example VDF and randomness beacons as an idea for Steem but I notice there is a lack of discussion or organized community for research into these new technological opportunities.

As a result Steemit and SMTs are really the only concrete ideas on the table which has received popular discussion.

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A large part of the reason those are the only ideas on the table is the closed development process and that those are the only ideas that have been promoted and pushed by Steemit, even though they have not been able to deliver on them to any significant degree.

This is a broken ecosystem, and some profound restructuring is needed as a precondition to make it work better before more, and better, work can actually get done. @aggroed is correct about that (as are you).

Agree re "Committees". The model that seems to work best in the cryptocurrency marketplace is a foundation to govern that the funds are managed responsibly and then developers are hired or given grants (on a project and/or ongoing basis) to do the work. It isn't committees or even teams that do the work, it is developers (and marketers, lawyers, etc. depending on the nature of the work that needs to be done). The foundation or what some are calling committees exist to oversee the thing and make sure that money isn't wasted or stolen.

I would like to see steemit.com run as a private for profit company with the intent of making it the best social site in the world, that just so happens to have one of the best cryptocurrencies attached to it.

Letting the steemit,inc team work on the steem blockchain and turning over steemit.com to a different team seems like the best approach to me.

And yes the selling of 800,000 steem per month has to stop.

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This is a model that I think would actually work, though perhaps not the only one: Split off Steem (blockchain) from steemit (social web site) each with its own funding and governance. Steemit Inc the for profit company can build and run steemit.com as one of the apps backed by the Steem cryptocurrency and blockchain, and a community governance structure and/or foundation can develop the code for the Steem blockchain.

I'm not sold on the idea of Steemit Inc developing the blockchain. Blockchains are inherently a community resource and a private unaccountable company developing them is always a bit of a strain. It can probably work with an excellent team and excellent management with the right vision and approach but that doesn't seem to be the case here and I see no reason to expect that to change in the future (beyond wishful thinking, which I reject as a plan).

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I could get on board with this as well. My main goal was just that I would like to see them separated. I also would like to see them follow through with implementing some advertising and then maybe a revenue sharing model or some gamification of some kind to provide alternative revenue streams for users.

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Agreed, talk about shooting ourself in the foot.

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I guess I would STRONGLY advocate for an additional Committee:

Call it what you will but, essentially: The People's Committee.
The committee for issues within the community. Similar in roles and governance, to the other committees mentioned, however, it would ultimately, have someone serving that would in essence serve as an employee of the PEOPLE, to bring the voice of the people back to the governance of the Blockchain. A Steemit Ombudsmen.

In essence, the committee charter would be retention, and steemian issues.

Thanks for writing the post and explaining about the background (ninja mine) and the catalyst (Hardfork 21 "Freedom")...

More people here on Steem should be aware of these "issues" in order to find a sustainable future for the whole community, not only for the witnesses and the visionary "leader".

Too bad the host was talking 90% of the time, and we could not hear more from the person in question.

The visions expressed by the "leader" on this show did not inspire me at all. On the other hand, the resent drama got the community together and amazing projects are in the making.

Its time to let the community take the lead, why do we have to wait for one person to act?

Maybe a hardfork is a positive way to leave the dark past behind and move to a brighter future of Steem.

This will be interesting.
Maybe now someone comes to help with the development?
I was expecting this from Utopian, but just quietness from that corner.
Maybe those tokens will lure them in.
Or prospect of committees
Now steem enters the phase of communism.
In its original definition :)

That was excellent @aggroed and @ned. You guys actually brought tears to my eyes a time or two and made me feel more hopeful than I have felt in months.Thank you.

when you know all the facts steem is 100% a security,

since one entity from the offset controlled a significant amount of the distribution of rewards and set about farming in the millions of SP for various steemit inc accounts whilst also controlling changes to system reward mechanisms etc

This townhall was EXTREMELY necessary. I would like to thank @ned for taking the time.

Missed the show yesterday... managed to catch up today and I'm really glad I did. Thanks for sharing this recording.

A well explained article. I got to know so many things from this article. I also would like to say that you have asked things in a nice way. Hoping to see some fruit from this.

Even I strongly believe in this chain and not really happy by the way it is progressing.

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Litening to this recording why the hell don'e we make @Aggroed CEO and @ned the Chairman/Founder,

@ned just keeps skirting around the issues that #aggroed keeps asking him. He just is not on the ball as far as Communications in way a CEO should be. Not all.

Not even close. I know I had my issues with @aggroed in the past. Personal stuff which to be honest was just kind of silly on my part. But the more I listen to him he sounds like a CEO who is able to Communicate effectively.

Am I wrong ??

You continue to earn your witness vote over and over again, thank you for keeping it real! There's literally no words to be added here, I wish Ned would take some example from you. Bravo!

I can't say if doing a coup d'etat against steemitinc will do good to the steem economy because if they can do it to the major stake holders what more for little ones.

Hi @aggroed, thanks for the historical insights and for pushing forward the need for concrete plans.

BTW Feb 2nd is a Saturday (not a Sunday); you may wish to edit either the day or date. I hope it is the Saturday so can participate, as in Asia will be the dead of night.

My own work and interest is in the economic system that Steem has created. This could be a sub-committee of the blockchain committee but it needs the skills and insights of mathematicians, economists, game theorists, systems analysts etc before looking at the encoding.

The field of cryptoeconomics is new and faces genuine challenges in creating autonomous systems that can adapt to human behaviour without either crashing or heading towards some unwanted attractor. Nobody has as yet created such a blockchain economy, hence it is worth doing.

We have seen that hard forks that affect the economic code can have dramatic effects on the system, hence any changes must not be taken lightly or without thorough testing. What is needed is a few people who truly understand how the Steem economic system works plus some new blood from the areas mentioned above.

The Steem blockchain is agnostic to human qualities and value judgments; it merely reacts to blockchain actions. I can see the current drive is to add a human layer above the pure coin flow, with the development of new websites and communities. However, there also needs to be a long hard look at the coin creation and distribution so that the steem macroeconomics actually facilitates the microeconomics of both the individual members and communities.

I ❤️ Steemit!
Seriously, to have seen it grow, in both bull and bearish runs has been an honor!

Thank you @aggroed, @frystikken, and @llfarms for doing this. I'm not sure if there was an agenda for Ned available before the show (perhaps not possible if he joined last min), but that could help him with his prep to not skate around some stuff we're keen on, which may not be so important to him.

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Hey Matt! No, there was no agenda or questions lined up. He just happened to show up in audience and we invite anyone from the audience to come on air, which he chose to do. I think having his own scheduled forum would probably be most likely planned before hand and allow him to be a bit more specific and direct with answers etc. Or maybe he just didn’t want to give too much info 🤷🏻‍♀️ Who knows. But yes it was all very impromptu and no questions were known before hand. Glad he took the opportunity to chat and hope it happens more often as well as getting a bit more into the hard questions in a respectful way as well.

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Thanks for the quick response and taking the time to spell this out.

Thank you so much for this. 💪👍

Worth for reading and Sharing. Many would have curious to know about steem and more importantly about. @ned showed up...resteemed👍

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Particularly, announcing livestreams, abandoning them, and providing no further announcement is flatly unprofessional.

Indeed, just to disappear without any explanation ... would you behave like that when you had an appointment with a friend or a business partner? Just unthinkable!

Even no other person from the whole Steemit Inc. stuff provided any further information.

You built the most commonly used App in the crypto sphere and then sunset it.

Exactly: all the new already existing and planned DApps are really great, but we shouldn't forget that we already had (and still have) a unique feature which differentiates us from all other crypto currencies and blockchains: a functioning community, a social network that gives even non-crypto affine persons the possibility to enter a until now for them completely new world. We should make onboarding as easy and simple as possible and care much more about new users than we currently do. The value of other successful social media sites like facebook is not because of any superior technology but because of the huge and (more or less) satisfied user base!

This is an excellent article with many of the relevant points and questions that we all have. I just finished listening to the video and this was a valuable service you have provided to the community by letting us hear this discussion. Constructive conversation is indeed the key at this point. Let's all work together to create the kind of community we aspire to.

Good pointed questions were asked but generic responses were provided by @ned .

Hopefully this becomes a conversation starter with ned but given the track record so far , I won't hold my breath on ned taking up on the suggestions.

great work @aggroed. I had been getting concerned that the conversations were too emotional and going no where in chats I read. I understand people need to vent and people are upset. And they have a right to do so. However it can get to a stage where it does more harm than good. text chats can also be read out of context too and so having a voice chat was the best way to go. Nice work. Time well spent listening to the replay. Resteemed

Hey there, many thanks for this informative post and particularly the great effort you have made in building steemit up. I have read all the comments too so far here, and see the problems, the reactions and the solutions offered. There seem to be great community members and solutions, so Steemit is looking hopeful. It has great potential. In time the right people will coalesce and improve Steemit, the platform. It is here to stay, as long as the leaders don't scupper the steemship.

Come on guys we can do this, we have come so far, let's keep up the brilliant work. we have a revolutionary concept on so many levels - social, economic, intellectual, technical, political, etc. Now we need to be mature and evolved as people. we need to bring our best personality qualities to the fore and avoid the human error in this excellent concept.

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Good start of the discussion. Still unclear if the messages you were trying to send @ned were recieved, let alone be turned into actionable tasks.

Looking forward to a constructive discussion in February and i'll happily be a part of that initiative.

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Very, very interesting read. I missed the broadcast but will play it later. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

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Interesante y motivadora publicaciòn de como en uniòn alcanzar la Luna.! Colectivamente se llegarà al èxito.

wow, you certainly covered it from every side. Thanks for that it was high time someone took them to task. We all love steemit, but at the rate its going, well I dont see it going anywhere except down at the moment, and we have to rectify tha. So thanks for being proactive and speaking on behalf of all of us. @aggroed

You've made the Steemit Minute for today! Congrats!

Check out the Video Here: https://steemit.com/dtube/@reseller/kgjvuon0

Thanks, @aggroed, for everything you're doing!

Great thoughts! Obviously @ned as well as the @steemit team are not capable of making Steem a success. A lot of changes need to be done and there are absolutely no signs in sight on their behalf.

My sincere thanks @aggroed for succinctly addressing festering problems that have gone unresolved for far too long. You have laid out a framework by which this community can make the whole of the Steemit platform greater that the sum of its parts. I look forward to keeping up on future developments and I will contemplate how I can make my own contributions to this worthy effort.

Just wanted to echo what a bunch of other people said and say that I appreciate this info.
I haven't personally invested anything other than time and I feel like I've been well rewarded personally even though I haven't cashed out anything, however my father actually did invest some of his money and since he did it concerns me more the direction this is all going, the lack of communication and confusion and so much negative community sentiment has been unsettling, and still is.. Though this helps put things into more context. Thanks.

Great discussion, thank you! You all helped me catch up after my 6 month steemit hiatus. Time to get Steemit social media platform out of beta, if @ned can’t focus on the social media platform he needs to turn it over to the steemit community so we can fix the broken economy. Remove the huge premined mined accounts influence...

I was very pleased to hear from @ned. For a while I was very critical of him, but I think it's easy to boo from the sidelines when someone is trying to build something. However, I think it's also important to listen, learn and adapt as a project grows.

I still feel that @ned doesn't really appreciate the investors who buy up the coins steemit inc sell everymonth. Who exchange their hard earned funds for steem. If these people lose patience and pull out their funds, steemit inc will enter a death spiral and will either need to seek new sources of funds or go under.

Thank you @aggroed for getting the right balance of providing feedback while also offering support.

I remember a while ago @steemitblog asked for writers from the community, but I can't remember ever seeing any progress on that afterwords.

The level of communication could be forgiven for most other projects, but when the blockchain you are developing is a content sharing platform, the deficiency is hard to miss.

Anyway, in summary. I am glad @ned is okay and still working on the project. I hope he gets the support he needs, whether that's from steemit inc or the wider community.

I wouldn't support a fork of steem (for now).

@kabir88

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Love all the valuable information that I gathered from this talk and appreciate everyone that brought their amazing thoughts here today.
May All of You Always Live in the Abundance of Love and Blessings.

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I cannot thank you enough @aggroed for putting it all together. There are definitely some weird stuff happening behind the scenes but I hope due to your feedback Ned will take things more seriously.

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