Offer to Purchase Steemit.com for Custody of the Steem Community

작년




FIRST DRAFT PROPOSAL


To Tron
Att: Justin Sun

The Steem project should have never been launched under the guise of immutability, freedom and liberty while a corporate entity owned and controlled the main dapp and marketing, this is not representative of the ideals of decentralisation and Open Source.

Steem will never prosper while its flagship domain is under corporate control and whoever owns it will always be cursed to be at loggerheads with the community.

Steemit.com is a piece of genesis history of the Steem blockchain and should be preserved as such. I hereby propose to emancipate the steemit.com app to the ownership of a community trust such as a Bermuda Charitable or Purpose Trust, with strict instructions in the deed that this domain should never be sold to individual or corporate control but rather forever remain in the ownership of a community trust.

The trust shall be to the benefit of the Steem community and the development of the steemit.com app and other worthy social initiatives.

I hereby tender to you a rounded up purchase offer of 1.4 Million USD for the below-listed domains (valued by Hypestat.com) and to include all public communication accounts previously owned by Steemit inc, such as but not limited to, steemitblog, steemitmarketing, Steemit Twitter, Reddit and Facebook accounts, along with the necessary github repos for all UI's and webpages.

At this stage we will sort our own infra and likely will not need anything else other than the domains and social media and Steem accounts empty of any Steem or Steem Power funds. Infrastructure transfer could be discussed if it is to the benefit of both parties, but that discussion can come later.


List of Domains and Valuation


steemit.com $1 163 982.84
steem.com $ 7 245.24
steem.io $ 8 086.31
steemitwallet.com $ 157 173.21
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Total: $1 336 487.60

The steem.com domain is a good place to start as this domain is useful as an information site under community ownership and could be funded for purchase fairly quickly.

Should you accept this offer by replying to this post, you will give the Steem community 90 (ninety) days to crowdfund the total amount and the less valuable domains can be purchased separately as funds are raised.

The funds shall be raised by issuing a Steem Engine token 1:1 with each dollar contributed to the crowdfund. This token will later become an SMT when SMT's are available and will not compete with Steem as the main currency of the steemit.com app and backers will perpetually earn at a minimum a stake weighted share of 25% of the profits derived from the community trust from activities such as investment of surplus funds, ad revenue, subscription revenue etc.

The profit distribution percentage can be adjusted upwards at the discretion of elected trustees. The minimum shall be recorded in the trust deed.

The roadmap would be to first and foremost win back the ex Steemit Inc devs to the community @gerbino, @roadscape, @vandeberg and @justinw should he choose to resign from Tron.

The trust will be used to ensure that developers are paid in real currency and have valid employment and will lead the way to mass job creation to further the platform. Initially, the funding will come from any surplus raised from the token sale and via SPS proposals.

Once developers are back on board with the community the SMT roadmap shall continue and focus shall be placed on making Steemit.com accessible to all major languages such as Spanish, Chinese, Korean, German etc for maximum inclusion.

Over time an offical mobile app will be developed with similar UI feel to the main site and most importantly the current Steemit green logo will be retired in favour of the original Steem blockchain logo as it was in the beginning.

Any improvements on the original logo are also welcome, however, the Steemit logo will not be retained.

Justin, I implore you to consider this offer as an act of benevolence and let our community go on to become self-sovereign and truly free from corporate control. This act will go a long way to improve your overall reputation and that of Tron. You gave away $4 million to meet with Warren Buffet, I trust it would be easy for you to do the right thing and sell this project back to the community at the appraised price.

This offer will remain on the table for 7 (seven) days after which on this day next week if I have not heard from you I will start to mobilise the neosteem.com domain that I own in the same fashion as mentioned above and campaign to move the entire community to it, with Steem still remaining the underlying currency.

Sincerely,

@thecryptodrive
Legitimate Steem Consenus Witness
BuildTeam CEO

Disclaimer: This offer to purchase has no bearing whatsoever on the current discussions and issues regarding the ninja-mind stake. It is a separate offer for the domains and public-facing communication accounts only.

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I respect your efforts here, but such actions must be coordinated and decided in the community. Such individual actions damage our ecosystem. Hence the downvote.

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I think you misunderstand, steemit.com is corporately owned website and domain, it falls outside the ambit of the blockchain community, that being said, it is a flagship app of Steem and is better off in the hands of a community trust, hence the OTP to that end. This post also has embedded messages for users to start rethinking which UI's they use and that using steemit.com which is 100% in the hands of a centralised corporate entity is no better than using facebook.

Congratulations. This is among the top-3 most retarded posts I have ever read on steem. Not a surprise of course, as it comes from one of the greatest cock suckers of steem.

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The competition was strong, but yes, it's a very, very retarded post, Sir

What a fucking joke. What makes you think anyone’s going to trust your slimy ass to organize anything like this? And $1.4 million??? A Steem-engine token?!?!

This is some of the most hilarious shit I’ve ever read on this blockchain.

You are as fucking retarded as you look, Ritardo.

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In fairness this is an optional solution. Have you come up with a solution of your own, if not then don't ridicule others for making a quick opinion. I haven't seen much from you except for telling people to vote for witnesses... This problem with Tron isn't going to be solved with just witness support.

If you all are so concerned about Tron then seeking a different owner would be better, wouldn't it?

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As soon as I read “The funds shall be raised by issuing a Steem Engine token 1:1” I burst out laughing and skipped to the comments lol... you never fail to impress me, always here, always observing, always calling out.

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Be interested to get your take on the following proposal, Bernie.

https://steemit.com/savesteem/@novacadian/q6u0h8

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Why do so many people want to give Sun money?
So much Stockholm syndrome.

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Steemit.com in the hands of a community trust is better off than in the hands of Sun. Probably the only thing he purchased legit from Ned was the Steemit.com website and the only way to acquire that is via an OTP.

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@berniesanders I completely agree this is nonsense.

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berniesanders seeks censorship.

he uses his bots to do it, and chase people off (can't make any money)

he tells users to 'kill themselves' when he disagrees with them.

proof.. bernieIsntNice.png

bernie is using his money to fund tron.

bernie and tron are the same 'group'

ever heard of good cop bad cop? .. now berniesanders wants to be the good cop...

lol.

namaste

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AHAHAHAHAHAHA that’s fucking hilarious.

Keep making yourself look retarded. Or, take the advice I gave you previously.

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Steemit.com URLs redirects to Steem Peak when you are on Steem Peak, last time I checked around a day ago. So, other apps could do that as well.

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Would it be too radical to use decentralized DNSs when surfing the blockchain? BraveSTEEM browser?

Whose Routes? Our Routes! ✊🏼

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Your suggestion is good, but it remains to be seen whether Justin Sun will respond

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I don't think he will respond but the post serves to also send out a message for users to start rethinking which UI's they use and that using steemit.com which is 100% in the hands of a centralised corporate entity is no better than using facebook.

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Although removing Steemit Inc and take their activities into our community may seem a good idea, but I'm of the opinion this will not work at all. To create a new more or less central entity developing the chain and steemit.com service, I'm not in favour of. When we like to see this development to be transferred to something else, it either shall be in the community control (ie no new central entity), or it shall be transferred to a company that has proven track record in developing complex software, understanding and being able to evolve complex algorithms, know what UX is and be able to deliver high level UX implementation, as well has good marketing people, have ties into the crypto world as well as the fist world. Ie a proven professional company. All for good reasons: To bring Steemit forward, as well as give the Steem blockchain a solid future, millions and millions needs to be invested. Forget about the ad-income, its very minimal at the moment, and I'm pretty sure it will not grow considerable until we have millions of active users (which may take another few years to a decade before that happens). You may read my proposal here: https://steempeak.com/hive-148441/@edje/my-proposal-and-thoughts-to-move-ahead-with-our-community-and-steem

That said: We can continue with SteemPeak; Seems to be of a high level UX then Steemit.com

ps It concerns quite an investment, hence you really need to share a business case, including all costs and revenues you think you'll be making with this. Even for crowdfunding, this is a minimum to get some real money. I dont think the Steemit UI is the best around our chain. The brand has some value for sure. But most Steemians will quickly move to another frontend the moment steemit.com stops operation. That could be a demand to TRON, discontinue steemit.com UI; I think that is more fruitfull and cost much less money.

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I would only buy Steem.com (better branding), and give this domain to @steempeak :)

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Would be good to point steemit.com to steem.com but would want to keep the original codebase that Steemit devs worked on with communities.

I applaud any post which is written in a positive tone how ever far fetched the solution is. It requires some thinking outside of the box to get out of this impasse and get the parties involved to leave their trenches. So thanks for this contribution

The intention is good, but I really don't think the domain name is worth the battle. Steem was designed to have frontends all over the internet, and that, in my opinion, is what should happen. Other businesses just need to do the ground work to launch a frontend and make it popular.

You should do your neosteem domain and provide STEEM burning for ads, this is how STEEM becomes valuable. It should always have been using the burning feature for promotions on all the condenser frontends, and there should be a solid decentralized tool for this used across the many different frontends.

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Yes it was mentioned before that using crowdfunds to pay for promotion of the neosteem domain might be a better use of resources, my concern however is that Steemit.com can be used as a propaganda tool by Tron and I would rather see it out of their hands.

This is amazing... yup it's a good idea to restore the ownership of Steem inc to trust and crowdfunding for payment of buying this back from Tron. I think, if there is community support behind Steemit this should work. I never would have thought of a solution like this that can bypass all the fights happening na?...

I hope this plan will find community backing, and once it does, all works well!!

I think this is a good proposal to start with, quite kool!!

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Thanks for liking the idea, means alot!

If @berniesanders is against it, it probably is a good idea. Good luck.

You've done so many fabulous things for this blockchain! Keep up the great work!

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Thanks my friend!

Hey I voted for you as witness, coz well, you are real witness of steemit, want good for it and all, know about you only reading this post, so nice. Goodday.

I think this is a good idea.

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Thanks for the positive reinforcement Stella.

  ·  작년

A couple of days ago I thought to myself: We should find a way to buy this back! He confessed he just came for the money and doesn't care about the community.
Clearly @thecryptodrive had similar thoughts and came up with this proposal. I don't know if it's a good one as I'm not skilled to assess it but a draft is a starting point.

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You know what they say about great minds!

Nifty idea. However, I'm sure it's entirely dependent on how the Tron/Witness negotiations pan out. Or maybe this can be part of those negotiations.

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i’m sure the chain level mexican stand off will be resolved in one way or another, this OTP is totally separate to what is happening regarding the stake.

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There is no Mexican stand off. The exchanges remain powered up and able to effect governance instantly.

We are allowed the same appearance of control @ned allowed during his four years tenure as Stinc CEO. It's an illusion.

Steem is an asset of Tron, since @ned sold his stake.

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There is a good chance that what the exchanges did is illegal. I doubt they will be able to keep it going without a lawsuit coming. A lot of users of their exchanges are pissed right now.

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The wheels of justice turn exceedingly fine, but slow. They currently wield complete instant control of governance, and until law enforcement or code execution obviates that control, we remain only as decentralized as they allow.

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Lawsuits take a lot longer than 13 weeks, once it is going before the courts there is a very real possibility that status quo at the time of filing will be enacted by the legal system so that no power down can be started, until such time as the lawsuit reaches conclusion. Then the accounts will be frozen, and the votes will be frozen, and nothing will be able to be done with the funds in order for the courts to preserve the value. I doubt that the people that had funds sitting on those exchanges are going to want to wait for years for the legal system to sort it out.

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If the turf war keeps up, scarcity will greatly effect the price. For the Steem devout this is a terrible situation, but for the opportunistic investor its a dream come true scenario. The more valuable STEEM is the higher the exchanges' liability.

Lord of War quote:

Yuri Orlov
"There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?"

Well that's a nice change, instead of just shouting offering a constructive argument, Wishing you all the best with your pitch

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Hearts and minds! 😎

@thecryptodrive, I am not into the Depth of Financial aspects. Hope that you've Brainstormed about it and came up to this conclusion which can come up as a Solution. Whatever it is, i want to appreciate your dedication. Stay blessed brother.

Posted using Partiko Android

test vote power

Awesome, i will do what i can to get this under the eyes of tron people

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That is fantastic thanks for your support!

This is the way awesome work mate what a great post.

Amazing idea , I'm agree with you , & I'm sure our community will able to crowdfund this amount. Now see if justinsun is agree with it or not?

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Who cares about sun ???

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Anyone who cares about his personal possession, Steem.

I dont think we need Steemit.com for any reason. It has a bad image, the condenser code is OS and there are alternatives.
Through the multiple dApps, extensions and communication channels, we also have means to draw the traffic away from it and redirect it to other UIs.

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This domain is part of the legacy history of Steem, most of the community used it and there are backlinks all over Google, Most users have felt it to be their home, it's a symbol for them and important to preserve the legacy of the community.

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I agee about the backlinks. Idt the rest matters that much.

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It's the sentiment, taking back our home into the hands of the community is everything, for many steemit.com is home because they aren't technical at a blockchain level.

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Furthermore, the Condenser UI looks atrocious and the codebase itself is a messy React application that is overly complicated and difficult to change. I think this blog post is a case of confusing the Steemit domain ejgg the blockchain itself.

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In the world of business, you just can't make offers based off so little. First you need real commitment from real investors who intend to purchase. You also need to have the details of the original purchase so that you can make a respectable offer that will meet the needs of the seller. If you intend to raise monies based upon fundraising effort of this magnitude, you need to have previous history of equivalent fundraising to prove you have the ability to accomplish the amount promised. The offer should be formally submitted to Justin Sun's legal team and not through a post on a social media.

Also, I am not a salesman, but I don't believe a good sales tactic should include a threat. Especially one that everyone can witness.

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Thank you for the tips. It seems our witnesses know very little about how businesses work. This post is insinuating a corporation without knowing it's a corporation.

Like @alexs1320 said; it's little wonder why there are no investors, why the price went to hell, and why no one out there it taking us seriously. We need more business-minded people to move the chain forward, not just tech geeks.

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Every sane business person would run away never to come back again.

Even today, chat with Sun, a guy just had some fun during the lunch break, he is not taking Steemians seriously at all *(and he is smart for doing that)

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Let the children play...

image.png

maybe it is time for a total change...

This is unnecessary, Sure Steemit is currently the 'face' of steem being most people think steemit = steem.
Sure it'll take some time to change that but rather than spend $1.4 million on buying the domains we could spend that on advertising other frontends for like 10 years.

It's not worth it.
Make new steem social media accounts, promote them instead.
Make a new front end and promote that instead.
Change peoples perceptions of steem rather than spend an insane amount of money buy up the old stuff.

I for one won't put a penny towards this.

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Or pay the steem developers to finish SMTs, and the hardware people to continue running servers.

If you fork, will you neuter the Ninja mine?

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This has nothing to do with forking or the stake, it is purely the UI that will run on the legitimate chain.

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As long as stake capable of exercising governance at it's sole option exists, Steem will remain functionally centralized - as it has always been.

Absent code that prevents accumulations of stake nominal to effect governance at it's sole option, this is a futile gesture.

I agree with this proposal. I doubt that a better deal could be made than this. It should be in a trust like you said, assuming we should not or cannot simply get rid of the Steemit Inc company altogether to survive with other apps on the Steem chain.

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Lol yeah no one will ever pay more than this for that tainted domain, it can never be owned by a corporate again, even if this proposal never gets accepted it helps bring that message home and that was the main goal really.

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Congratulations @thecryptodrive, your post successfully recieved 13.45181175 TRDO from below listed TRENDO callers:

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Good suggestion - but I think Justin is greedy and will not give up.

If @berniesanders is against it, it probably is a good idea. Good luck.

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You realize I have been the ONE person that was right about the past 4 years from the start while morons like Ritardo sucked Ned’s balls, right?

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So, wait. @ned had the stake to take complete control of the blockchain instantly, at his sole option, during the entire existence of Steem. Tell me what you did besides suck his balls while you profited from the illusion of decentralization he allowed?

Please point me to any proposal you have made to actually decentralize Steem. That would reveal you 'were right' about the past 4 years. Otherwise, you're just another ballsucker.

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If you consider cursing and bashing and making fun of someone as something that can be considered as proposals, then yes, he has thousands of them.

Even when people tried before to null STINC stake, they did it randomly without thinking deeply about the aftermath. Some of them instantly started to back off when freedom started to change some votes.

gif-asians-arm-wrestling-4305745.gif

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lol the girls

  ·  작년

Launch the neosteem website.
This might just be a show of how website don't equal the coin cough bitcoin dot com.

What I suggest after a while we rally and get also price sites like CMC to stop links to steem/steemit if the thing is still hostile ie what bitcoiner did with the bitcoin dot com

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Yeah if no reply by next week neosteem will have to be a go, and I like your suggestion about the exchange links.

Do you include the Steemit stake in that transaction? If not, don't you realize the incentive problem it creates?

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No this has nothing to do with the steemit stake which is tainted and belongs in the SPS.

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Great proposal I like it.

Why not just split it... Create a hardfork... Tron Steem/SBD and Classic Steem/SBD. Everybody wins.

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Justin is not getting to control Steem, not on my watch.

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You're delusional.

He presently does control Steem.

He allows the illusion we have the stake to elect consensus witnesses, because if he did not his stake would have no value.

Your watch has ended.

This is complete chaos, fun to follow and see what happens.
Resteemd

I think this proposal should be presented to witnesses and the community first before going all out here. No.

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The frontend has nothing to do with blockchain governance as far as witnesses are concerned, witnesses are concerned with matters at blockchain level and not ui level. This proposal is exactly what it is, a proposal. There is no point in wasting days of discussing with the community whether to offer to buy steemit.com only to have justin turn around and refuse to sell. The most efficient way is this way, find out if Justin is willing to sell and then go back to the community with a crowdfund proposal which can then be accepted or rejected.

"...an act of benevolence..."

Sun has used his stake to destroy the governance mechanism of Steem, which ultimately destroys the value of his stake. It would not be an act of benevolence for him to rescue such value of that stake as he can now.

It would be an act of desperation.

I hope your offer is accepted and Steem can continue to be a place where free speech is fostered.

However, presently, the illusion it was decentralized has now been dispelled, and it is the possession of Tron, under the control of one man, Justin Sun, who has assumed control of it's governance mechanism, which he can deploy instantly at his sole option. The exchanges remain powered up, and only by refraining from continuing to vote for Sun's witnessbots do they allow the illusion that community witnesses are viable.

The fact is that either the exchanges and Tron execute the code restricting their accounts from exercising governance, or Steem is Tron's possession.

I await the community's arrival at this conclusion and migration to a new chain, where hopefully the accumulation of stake nominal to undertake governance of the chain at it's holder's sole option will not be possible, and thus the chain actually be decentralized - which Steem never has been.

Thanks!

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Binance said today on Twitter that they plan to power down. Also I'm under no illusion that Justin will hand over steemit.com for 1.4 mil, maybe with some huge amount of luck, but infact the post serves to also send out a message for users to start rethinking which UI's they use and that using steemit.com which is 100% in the hands of a centralised corporate entity is no better than using facebook.

If for some reason at some point Steem does end up being forked into a new blockchain I think it would be a good idea to call it something other than Steem. First, the name "Steem" is too easily confused with the game platform "Steam" and makes marketing less effective. Second, especially with the current situation, people outside of Steem may be less inclined to take a look at the new chain if it has a similar name. It may be easier to build interest in a new project with a completely new name.

So now when we chased the first big investor away it's time for crowdfunding?
Good luck.

  ·  작년

I'm pretty sure hypestat is mostly just hype. Not sure you should trust those numbers. I call BS on them as much as I'd love to think steem gets that type of traffic I don't think they get close to that.

So we'd have the URLs but still have a chain with centralization issues?

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Also Steem.com for $8k that would be a steal of a deal in the other direction. All for that one. haha

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I think steem.com and steem.io should belong to the community at the very least Tron doesn't own the Steem blockchain even if they think they do and should not be allowed to represent Steem on such domain names when they don't even share the ideology of the community.

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Yeah probably, but given that he paid upwards of 4 mil to purchase Steemit inc, I don't think he will accept less and still I don't think he will accept this even, it is however the best deal he will ever get, no one will buy steemit.com again.

Excellent

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Congratulations @thecryptodrive! You received a personal award!

Look's like you do not like Justin. Did you really downvote him?

You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking

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I'm all in until this part:

The funds shall be raised by issuing a Steem Engine token 1:1 with each dollar contributed to the crowdfund.

Now, I am skeptical.

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What would you recommend to incentivise the crowdfund? This is a first draft, I am open to idea.

I was curious how you were going to pull this off and I was open minded until you mentioned community raising the funds and creating a Steem Engine token. Seems like a huge liability and ask for one person selling a token asking the community to trust them, $1.4 million is a lot of money in one person's hands.

I don't think the domains have any value. They're not worth that much in my opinion. The value is the blockchain and nobody can buy that.

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I plan to do kickstarter, indiegogo campaigns etc which will bring external awareness to Steem as well in addition to the crowdfunding within Steem and the greater crypto community.

All funds would be kept in multisig accounts with active signatures by trusted community members, escrow attorneys can also be used, there are many ways to handle that. First step is to see if the offer is accepted.

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Yeah my thoughts exactly! That logo must go and everything it represents.

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Agreed! Even though green is my color!

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You like normal green,I bet. Not this slightly sickening off pale green. I hated it from the start!! :0D

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it is the colour of the afterbirth resultant from the emergence of the spawn of putrid mating rituals between a monster and an alien. :)

@thecryptodrive,
If @justinsunsteemit agreed on this offer we do our best to build this fund base and buy back those domains. Nice offer of course!
$trdo

Cheers~

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This is an interesting idea and I like that it is an out of the box thinking solution. Wish more people would pitch ideas rather than bash on everyone.

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I’m still getting bashed for suggesting this, your comment resonated with me the most out of all that I have received so far and I want to thank you for having a great attitude, Steem needs more people like you.

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Hey, stay strong.
Humans are strange. If you look at a picture of a room of people smiling, but one person is angry, you focus on the angry face.. why? IDK, Human nature. Keep pitching ideas and don't let the few upset faces hinder the enjoyment of the smiling faces. !

Steem will never prosper while its flagship domain is under corporate control

As much as I remember, Steem cult was constantly repeating that
STEEM IS NOT STEEMIT

Now what?

corporate entity

No, you amateur, this is private not corporate.
What you are proposing is - to create a corporation
But you don't know how to use the right words

with strict instructions in the deed that this domain should never be sold to individual or corporate control

Again, corporation = stakeholders.
You buy steemit, it's a corporation

Never to be sold?
This is stupid beyond imagination.
How to lock down the investment forever

The funds shall be raised by issuing a Steem Engine token 1:1 with each dollar contributed to the crowdfund. This token will later become an SMT when SMT'

Why not using, you know, dollars, that green paper?

The profit distribution percentage can be adjusted upwards at the discretion of elected trustees. The minimum shall be recorded in the trust deed.

Congrats, you created a corporation, amateur

Justin, I implore you to consider this offer as an act of benevolence and let our community go on to become self-sovereign and truly free from corporate control.

Hahahahah

You gave away $4 million to meet with Warren Buffet, I trust it would be easy for you to do the right thing and sell this project back to the community at the appraised price.

It was probably worth it, while this childish offer is not worth the electricity used to display it

image.png

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"STEEM IS NOT STEEMIT"

That was always a lie. It is obvious now that Steem is a possession of Stinc.

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Oh noooo, the world will collapse now :D

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Not from this, although I'll be right put out. We are all in the process of dying, and then the world ends, for each of us alone.

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You are just dissenting for the sake of dissenting and I won’t be sucked into reply to you any further.

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What?

What is the problem?

I gave you the definition of the word "Corporation"

If your proposal has 6/6 checkmarks, tell me:

Are you proposing to create a corporation?

Or you have no idea what you are talking about?

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A charitable trust is not a for profit corporation, you are trying to convolute things.

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Charitable Trust?! Seriously?

And you people don't understand why nobody is taking you seriously,
why there are no investors
and why the price went to hell

Charitable trust... Joke of the day

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Maybe we all feel quite well without "investors" :)

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You know the expression, facts don't care about the feelings

image.png

If Sun wins - I buy
If the same lunatics win - I don't

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  ·  작년

Oh no Steem price went down...
almost like other coins!
image.png

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Why not re-brand?

I don't think there's much brand value in Steemit, let's not make the same mistake Justin did.

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Thanks @jaydih your post about new Steem witnesses inspired me. I may not be a new witness but I can come up with new ideas to lead us down a fresh path. Consider this post my application for your witness vote.

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You've earned it.

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Thanks my friend!

You are basically asking him to give up his weapons and pressure points. Those domains constitute, to some extent, the face of the Steem blockchain. Their worth is definitely far more superior than 1.4 million USD.

Your post/offer will just make people, who you want to buy the domains from, realize that they own another great pressure points. If the current situation unfolds into a Hard Fork and a split, the above websites will play a key role in determining which chain will prevail/thrive.

Good job Einstein.

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It's basically immaterial. Steem is currently Tron's possession. We are allowed the illusion that we have community witnesses that can prevent a HF, but that is belied by the fact the exchanges remain powered up and able to instantly assume control of governance again.

Either Tron and the exchanges execute the code that prevents their accounts from voting on witnesses, or Steem remains the exclusive possession of Tron.

Websites are just specific assets, part of the whole.

The community seems not to realize this fact presently. Since Steem remains usable at this time, we are able to continue to post and discuss here. Either the community forks and institutes mechanisms to prevent stake nominal to exercising governance at it's sole option, or remains on Tron's exclusive possession, Steem.

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“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” ~ Friedrich Nietzsche.

I can tell you that, in most part, the conflict is fueled by a clash of ideologies (East vs. West) and racism. Not sure if you are always on Discord, but you can easily find racist jokes by several witnesses and members of the community against the Chinese and Koreans. Without really mentioning the toxic voice discussions that focus more on "the guy is Chinese" rather than actual facts and sane reasoning.

We really don't need pseudo revolutionaries. We need people who are able to think critically and people that excel at conflict resolution.

An example of that would be some top witnesses asking Tron to remove their votes on witnesses. I find this request utterly retarded, it's like asking Sun to give his weapons so we can fork the shit out of him. Not sure if these people are serious or are just playing dumb.

What guarantee witnesses can give to Sun that they will not freeze or fork him out as soon as he takes down his witnesses? See? The only guarantee that can be given will be based on mutual trust which is also a retarded thing to do. All sides are using their power for survival, this is a natural thing to do in conflicts and people need to take this into consideration instead of blindly supporting one side just because he isn't from China.

One would say that everyone can have the brain for negotiation, but it is not, negotiation is an art, something that people study for years. You need skills for that, and being a nerd that can run a witness node isn't one of them.

I, of course, do not support Sun or the witnesses, they both made poor decisions, both are demagogues, and they both used populism to win the case.

Now that the field is leveled, people with negotiation skills need to start a discussion with each other to find how to alter the chain in a manner that will make it impossible for anyone to take retaliatory actions or to monopolize the governance. This is what should be done.

but that is belied by the fact the exchanges remain powered up and able to instantly assume control of governance again.

I agree with you on this, and this is ok. everyone is playing his tricks; the trust factor is completely destroyed, so everyone is plying the preventive card. There was a talk that witnesses are preparing something to fork Tron out, and they will execute it in the last moment by using SPS to fund an account and other hidden stakes. Everything will just take a minute. Tron knows that hence everyone is taken preventive measures and we shouldn't blame them for that. No one is playing by the rules anymore.

Either Tron and the exchanges execute the code that prevents their accounts from voting on witnesses, or Steem remains the exclusive possession of Tron.

The idea is great and should be only implemented after making the right changes to the chain. But even with that, any big entity can easily and secretly move its liquid Steem to new accounts (supposedly human witness) and use it to affect governance. What guarantee do we have for example that Blocktrade doesn't have accounts that are secretly used affect governance? preventing them to use their vote is useless in the long run. Something needs to be done, we need to solve the issue from its root, people are discussing the effects and forgetting the source of these effects.

Websites are just specific assets, part of the whole.

Also agree, but extremely important assets, if you search Bicton online, you will get Btcoin.com (privately owned) and Bitocoin.org (Originally created by Satoshi Nakamoto) as top results. From a SEO point of view, if we fork out, if new users search for Steem they will for sure use the chain/community that owns/controls the above-mentioned domains. You can say that they are more important than the code itself (open source and ready to use) because building that SEO will cost a tremendous amount of money and an eternity.

The community seems not to realize this fact presently. Since Steem remains usable at this time, we are able to continue to post and discuss here. Either the community forks and institutes mechanisms to prevent stake nominal to exercising governance at it's sole option, or remains on Tron's exclusive possession, Steem.

I again agree with you on the idea that either we fork out and take responsibility, or we let the RIGHT people properly de the negotiations to keep the community together. If the new chains keep the same retarded mechanism for governance, then we are screwed in both of them. You can be sure that if we fork out, old witnesses will become gods.

I need 3 things from these events. A system that will enforce our freedom of speech, and that our content will not be censored, and our property not seized. There are ways to do that directly on the chain, we need to focus on those points, I don’t want to trust witnesses or Sun. I only want to trust the code, Humans are and will always be subject to emotions, and I think we both know from history where that can lead us.

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Largely agree with what you say, but regarding negotiators... who will negotiate on our behalf? We are a decentralised community. At present dpos is the only mechanism to vote for representatives. Hence why we have witnesses "negotiating" on our behalf.

Moving forward it seems we should do something about DPOS so that one entity can't centralise governance of the chain. Maybe 10 votes only for 20 spots. So at most a central body could only force a stalemate, not a takeover.

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In political studies and international relations, conflict resolution can take many forms, many factors can play a key role in how to approach the negotiations (ethic, ethnic, religion, culture, military power....). I like the current situation because it portrays something called "mutually assured destruction":

Mutually assured destruction is a doctrine of military strategy and national security policy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two or more opposing sides would cause the complete annihilation of both the attacker and the defender.

The discussion should start by choosing:

  • a small group that represents the interests of the community that supported the SF;
  • a small group that represents the interests of Steemit Inc or let's just say Sun;
  • and one person, one single person that both sides can trust, he needs to be completely neutral and has a history of neutrality regarding the events.

Involving hundreds of people will only make things worst. Everything should be transparent, with no more secret decisions.

I don't think that the "10 votes" alone would solve the problem, you can read my take on this from here:

https://steemit.com/witness-update/@dr-frankenstein/q6p7kx

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Yeah that's a good idea. As time progresses we are going to see more and more abandoned accounts. Their votes definitely shouldn't count.

Regarding the 10 thing, I just saw a post by someone suggesting the amount should be 8, so that a large account can't split its SP between two accounts and potentially get a supermajority for centralised control. With 8 votes, a large account can only get 16 witness at maximum by splitting their SP 50:50. Would have to do some maths to work out whether a huge account could still vote top 20 if it split its SP in three.

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There are as you suggested several great ideas that need more thinking, but I feel like there is not enough political will to pursue them for reasons that I still don't understand.

They didn't want to implement such changes before even though the community was vocal about it including me. They probably liked the status quo, I don't see many of them talking about the broken governance, see by yourself, they mostly speak about BS and fuel the drama and spread FUD.

I see it more like some people didn't like their position to be challenged by new potential investors. If they really want decentralization, they should push for technical changes that support it. Not whine about being victims. As I said before if you remove the biggest guy in the room, the one after him will become the next biggest guy in the room. Hence why we need permanent solutions that go way beyond Tron or Steemit inc or the current witnesses.

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Hopefully after this attack by Sun some of them will come around to the idea of modifying DPOS.

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A problem with limiting the number of witness votes accounts cast is multiple accounts. I know at least one user that credibly claims to have ~10k accounts. They're not sure of the exact number. I can see why.

I prefer to deplete witness vote VP 100%, permanently, until the vote is rescinded. This means 1 Steem = 1 vote for witness. Presently being able to cast 30 full weight votes multiplies the influence of large stakeholders on governance, and this is a lot of the problem we are experiencing with @justinsunsteemit.

The math is fairly simple, so I'll illustrate the problem.

User A has 1M Steem and votes for 30 witnesses. Each vote is 1M Steem weight, so he exerts 30M Steem influence on governance. User B has 100 Steem and casts 30 votes for witness. He exerts 3000 Steem influence on governance. The difference between the stakes of User A and User B is 999,900. The difference between the weight of their influence on governance is 29,997,000. @justinsunsteemit is estimated to have ~100M Steem at his disposal. Theoretically he could wield 3B Steem influence on governance, which is why he was able to just install a consensus on his own.

We need to move to 1 Steem = 1 vote for witness, but also need to do more. Dunno what more, but more.

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they will execute it in the last moment by using SPS to fund an account and other hidden stakes

At least the SPS portion of this is utter nonsense as the maximum possible funding rate is 2700 SBD per day or about 13500 STEEM per day, which is peanuts.

Don't believe all the "talk" that you hear. A lot of it is ignorant or misinformation or both.

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Nearly 100k a week. Every bit counts, as some may say.

Ne market needed, the available internal tool for conversion can do the job.

Considering that the current proposals who are getting support right now aren't involved in this already.

I see that the current owners Of STINC did not even bother to remove their delegations from many projects that showed public hostility toward them. Wich is like feeding your enemy.

One thing is sure, they are still illiterate on how the Steem chain functions.

That was suggested by some old consensus witnesses on Discord. You better not try something like this.

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The allegation above is of a 'last minute' action which even 100k per week doesn't fit at all.

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Would you say the same thing about Bitcoin? I've heard that Bitcoin has no company. So, that appears to be a critical difference to the extent that Steem may depend on Steemit. But that is assuming that the Steem blockchain is not independent like Bitcoin is disconnected and independent of companies and exchanges and websites and apps. I don't know how hard forks are implemented on Bitcoin. I imagine that the miners vote on hard forks and that resulted in the forks of Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold, etc. Weku forked from Steem. Others have forked as well. So, we could fork from Tron just like Weku forked from us, assuming Weku did and I think they did.

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While no company 'owns' BTC, the miners control it's transfer, and therefore exercise control. AXA has been pointed to as a controlling entity of BTC, and it is demonstrable that the day the future's market for BTC was initiated the crash of BTC value began.

Yes, BTC is presently centralized, and further, the exchages are chokepoints that enable legacy financial mechanisms to specifically target users that exchange BTC for fiat.

Absent decentralized exchanges, crypto is captive to legacy financial institutions. Absent nominal mechanisms to limit the ability of substantial stake to exercise governance, Steem remains subject to Sybil attack. These are just the facts I am aware of, and not what I advocate.

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At least Binance today said on Twitter they will start powering down.

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You are basically asking him to give up his weapons and pressure points. Those domains constitute, to some extent, the face of the Steem blockchain. Their worth is definitely far more superior than 1.4 million USD.

To such a decentralized minded community of people perhaps its time for our own decentralized DNS' on the blockchain. Where should we point steemit.com traffic? Ask the blockchain. Stake owners need only apply. The community will decide where traffic is to land.

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You don't think Classic Steemians can compete with Tron Steemians post-split or post-hard-fork? I believe we can become more popular and drive many people away from Tron Steem and towards the new and more classic Steem blockchain someday if it comes to that. Because we are hard-core fans and geeks of the original. The war between Steem and Tron is akin to the war between real Star Wars fans and Disney and you know that the Fandom Menace is winning even as Disney has billions of dollars. Same thing with Star Trek.

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hard-core fans and geeks of the original

  • People are speaking about this like if it's the holy grail.
  • I played a major role in the archiving of many projects and websites as a part of https://www.archiveteam.org. I have seen many great projects entering the archive of history regardless of having a great community.
  • While there is indeed a huge difference between a website and a blockchain, the question of price vs cost applies to both of them.
  • We also saw no precedent things happening in the current events here which portrays something that will happen a lot in the future if the chain grows and we go large scale. There is a clear clash of civilization, racist jokes against Chinese and Korean, hate speech against China ... you can be sure that the interests of stakeholders (investors) from different places in the world will collide in the future hence why the governance system needs to be immune against such things or the chain and the community as a whole will never thrive.
  • War is good, the clash is natural, people are free to fight, but not by using the Chain as a weapon and the code needs to reflect that.
  • People are relying too much on emotions and excitement, rather than logical thinking. It's something that I really don't like, unconditional and blind support to witnesses and STINIC are the things that lead us to this point. No accountability at all. People need to stop glorifying other users regardless of their actions.

If the proper changes are not made on the chain, you can be sure that both chains will be doomed. Of course, if you like to live under 20 internal gods, that's another thing, running a blockchain isn't hard, a few servers suffice, but making the whole thing work is another story. It's like opening a copy of Facebook online than asking I don't have a billion visitors each month.