A comment reply turned into a root post...

2년 전

This started as a long comment reply, but I figured I'd just go ahead and do a root post instead as others might find value in it also.

This post is a reply to a comment by @davemccoy which you can read here. He also made it a root post here. My intention is not to call him out, shame him, or embarrass him in any way. I do want to start a conversation so I figured we'd do it here instead of an already long comment thread.


I know that you will not care what I say.

Why start a discussion like that? I care quite a bit and have demonstrated that for almost two years. If you (or anyone else) has already made up your mind about me, what value is there in replying? I'll reply anyway and assume this was just a poor choice of words.

For some context of where I'm coming from, I recommend reading STEEM Is NOT Steemit. STEEM Is More Valuable Than Steemit.

Many people come to Steemit expecting free money or a new Facebook killer. That's not reality. They have improper expectations for where Steemit is as a product. It's a reference implementation of what's possible on the STEEM blockchain. It's not the primary forcus of Steemit, inc. We can disagree or get frustrated about that, but that's reality. I met with their team in Lisbon at Steemfest2 and talked with them directly about this.

They are focused on ensuring the STEEM blockchain can support many millions of active users, not the 80k or so we get a month now. Are they wrong? Should theuy focus instead on user retention, even if the APIs and the infrastructure right now is falling down often? Shouldn't they focus on preparing for growth before they try to create more growth?

For more context:

If you re-read what I wrote in the comment thread, I specifically did not try to tell @donkeypong why he "should keep his vote" for me. I'm giving my perspective why I don't think it's wrong for a witness like me to be fully engaged in multiple projects in the cryptocurrency space.

@davemccoy, I do understand and hear your frustration with Steemit, user retention, and more. When I first got to Lisbon for Steemfest2, I sat across from Sneak and grilled him about similar problems. His answer shocked me, and I didn't like it at all, but the more I thought about it, the more I understood it. He essentially said he doesn't care about the first million or two million users. He cares about the next 100 million users. From his perspective, once the blockchain itself is ready, along with the systems needed for mass adoption (HF20, Hivemind, Appbase, etc), then all those emails and contacts they collected will be contacted again and this time user retention will be the focus because they will be ready for growth.

That's why Steemit, inc doesn't do much (if any) marketing right now. They have a long-term strategy, and they are executing it. That strategy involves tokenizing the web (which includes Smart Media Tokens). It doesn't include just making Steemit.com a new Facebook or Reddit competitor. They want to see hundreds and thousands of competitors, all built by independent companies on the STEEM blockchain.

I'm well aware of the retention rate problem. I'm also aware of the expectation problem many new users have.

What are you doing about this? Where is the focus on this issue?

I'm trying to work with Steemit, inc and help educate people on what they are actually doing with posts like this: What is Steemit, Inc Doing???

I'm also regularly participating in the monthly witness forum (I think I've attended every time I've been asked to do so, except once because of a schedule conflict). You can hear the latest recording here: Steem Witness forum- The Recording! - Value and Organization @andrarchy mentioned numerous times how accurate my perception of what's going on is related to what Steemit, inc is actually doing.

You can find my perspective on bot farming and wealth extraction here. I'm participating in many conversations with other witnesses and Steemit, inc on changes that can be made to not only educate people to think differently about the rewards pool as a collaborative commons and to take responsibility to protect it, but also changes to the underlying economics such as potentially introducing a downvote rewards pool, changing curation reward rates, and potentially adjusting the rewards curve to no longer be linear (but not going all the way back to an exponential rewards curve). Unfortunately, many of these conversations are not public, and I'm also working on changing that for more transparency among the top witnesses, investors, and Steemit, inc.

I'm aware of what's going on, and much of it is what I've seen for two years already. Some of it (not all of it), relates to people's misaligned expectations. It's like they are tweeting to no followers and then getting confused why no one sees their content. They come for the "free" money. Like me, they probably have to figure out the real reason they are here. Many don't understand cryptocurrency (which I try to help with via http://understandingblockchainfreedom.com) or they don't understand social media, professional blogging, or branding. They show up, find it all too difficult to understand, and leave.

I get that.

It's one of the main reasons I have the support that I do from so many voters for my witness account. I focus on helping explain the technical things in simple terms so more people can understand what this place is all about and set their expectations appropriately.

The number one thing any of us can do (IMO) is help support Steemit, inc to get Appbase and Hivemind released as soon as possible. With communities and a focus on the future interface for Steemit, we won't be wasting effort trying to put bandaids on the current front-end.

You can look through the ~12k comments I've made to help educate people about cryptocurrency, STEEM, Steemit, and more if you really want an accurate picture of what I've been doing here to help people.

New users to the Steemit front-end are definitely important. I don't agree with Sneak that we shouldn't care about the early adopters. It's also important to explain STEEM to the larger cryptocurrency community, especially investors who create demand for STEEM and fund all the rewards we enjoy here. It's important to explain the value of DPOS. I do that at conferences, events, interviews, and more. You can see some examples of what I've been up to here. As a witness, I focus on where my strengths are. I could do onboarding or tech support with new users, but I think sending them this post helps instead (many have told me how much it changed their whole perspective on Steemit): #SteemitIsToMe: Relationships, Reputation, and Rewards. The value I bring relates directly to my experience in the cryptocurrency space for over five years. Some appreciate that, others do not.

All that said, I'm here, as always, listening and responding.

Let's have a conversation.


Luke Stokes is a father, husband, programmer, STEEM witness, DAC launcher, and voluntaryist who wants to help create a world we all want to live in. Learn about cryptocurrency at UnderstandingBlockchainFreedom.com

I'm a Witness! Please vote for @lukestokes.mhth

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I wanted to tell you that I am impressed that you took the time to read my reply to you (in both places) and to respond not only directly but also in a post. Thank you for that.

You are right that it was a poor use of words on my part to say that you won't care. To say that you don't care would apply towards us small users in general from those at the top (as you mentioned was the case by Sneak), but you are right that I should not have assumed that it applied to you. I apologize for making that incorrect assumption about you specifically when I had no basis for it.

Regarding your point about Steemit being just a test platform for STEEM to use in a bigger way later, I think this is something that is news to many. I have heard from people that they "think" this is the case, but I have never had someone be so direct in saying it was so. I respect you for doing so. While you make me wonder what is the purpose of me being here everyday for 6 months and helping to make this a community place, I do definitely respect that you are telling me "the way it is".

As far as expectations of the platform, yes I would agree that many (including me) have wrong expectations. While I am not part of the "get rich" crowd, I did expect that the people at the top try to help make Steemit a place to be for the future. I did expect that the connections, the friendships, the reputation, etc would one day be something that made a difference. But from what I can glean from your answer is it is all meaningless. All these groups and people will be gone from Steemit one day and there will be totally new platforms for everyone to branch out to join and hopefully one day make new sets of friends, connections, and build their own reputations.

No wonder people think that @fulltimegeek is wasting his time fighting haejin, he's fighting for something that isn't relevant to the future. Who cares what your Steemit Reputation rating is if Steemit is only a short term step and meant to be cannibalized by future competitors as the Steem blockchain develops? @fulltimegeek should just make lots of money and be like everyone else as this is all just a test.

I recognize that you are not the one that has devised this plan, but it makes a lot of sense now that I see the actions of Steemit and the top witnesses. I frankly don't know what to say about the plan. Yes it makes sense to not care about your first one or two million users; if the only thing you view those people as lab-rats performing a test. It would've been nice of them to ask us to be those lab-rats. I don't know if I would've spent every day of the last 6 months trying to be a part of a community, if I would've known this place didn't matter for anything more than a reference implementation.

It's a reference implementation of what's possible on the STEEM blockchain. It's not the primary forcus of Steemit, inc.

My issues are no longer with you or with any of the people that run Steemit (witnesses, whales, or employees). You have told me that I don't matter in their eyes, and that this is simply an experiment that is meant to make STEEM great in the future so they can have a more valuable underlying currency and blockchain so they can really grow their wealth even further. I get the way that this helps them, and if I was a top 20 witness or a large holder of STEEM maybe my thinking would be different.

But I'm not. My friends are not.

We are just people trying to build a community for a place that doesn't even really care if it exists. We didn't sign up to be lab-rats in an experiment and frankly I didn't even know that's what we were.

Now I do.

Thank you very much for the honesty @lukestokes. I appreciate very much that you took the time and energy to tell me the truth. Like you with Sneak, I am not happy at all about it. But I will tell you that I respect that you are the first one to tell me directly this is the case.

I have recently referenced witnesses that I strongly support and would like their opinion on this. I know that this is political and they might not want to agree or disagree in public. But since I believe they are fighting to make this community stronger, I would like to ask them why?

If you can respond, could you? (@steemcommunity -@abh12345 @paulag) @danielsaori @yabapmatt @steemgigs (@surpassinggoogle) @jackmiller @curie @qurator (@scrooger)

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Glad to step in here and be part of this conversation, thanks for the shout out @davemccoy.

I previous spoke about business models and compared Steemit to Udemy and i think it applies here in this conversation too. I understand @lukestokes plea here.

Udemy in a online learning platform. It launched in 2010 with a marketing campaign that promoted anyone could make a course and make money online. "anyone" sound familiar!

It took Udemy almost 1.5 years to reach 1 million users and another 6 months to reach 2 million users. By 2015 they had 10m users.

During this time (lets call it the launch phase) Udemy capitalized on the fact the 'ANYONE' could make money selling courses. All of the top selling course were 'HOW TO GET RICH ON UDEMY' course. A lot of them were from @jerrybanfield

While in the launch phase many instructors including me we very disheartened. the hot and trending did not reflect the reality (sound familiar) and the choice of course marketed by Udemy was also not a reflection of the content available on the platform. For a long time us instructors campaigned to Udemy Inc for change. We even lost many good instructors during the process.

With Udemys model, if you brought the students then you got 90% of the payment. But if Udemy brought the student then you got as little as 25%. Many people were relying on Udemy to bring the Students and disheartened that they were not delivering. At the time Udemy did not have the numbers to deliver students to all courses of all niches (sound familiar).

So top quality instructors, although disheartened with Udemys promise, began to grow a their only presence by growing their own followings. We had to learn online and social media marketing, blogging and all this other stuff needed to make a business happen online. heheheh guess what courses became popular next...'How to market your online courses' ....more get rich quick crap.

When Udemy hit the 10m user mark things changed. they no longer needed to leverage the power of get rich quick schemes for growth. The networking effect was well in play and the snowball was rolling.
Udemy banned all get rich quick courses, kicked jerry off the site with a thanks very much for all the users, although shit quality, it ranked us well and aided in the growth.

I was one of those instructors that moaned about Udemy Inc allowing all this get rich quick crap, I also lobbied to have jerry removed. But I was also one of those instructors that grew my own following. Slow as it was, i am now a best selling Udemy instructors, and Udemy send loads of traffic and learners to my courses.

So you see, I understand why Steemit Inc will not care about the first few million users. They will not care about the content type or who and what is being promoted. Lol this is their marketing. Let jerry tell people they will get rich here, sure they will come then. Let trending be full of shit posts but high payout post to keep the premises alive and as jerry and all the shit stuff works away, steemit inc are focusing on other things.

But like Udemy, there will be many people here now, that will stay for the long haul, even with the shit, and it is these people that will be the whales and influencers of the future. Udemy lost many many great instructors. I don't want Steemit to lose as many good people. I want Steemit to be different in this regard. So instead, I want to engage and support as many of these as possible. Having been here before, I know how it works :-)

Steemit needs people working on Apps, on the platform, on stability and scaleability. But it also needs people ensuring the user base do what they are meant to do on steemit. Engage and promote content and grow a following. Believe it or not, many do not know how to do this. So while some are creating awesome apps, others (like @davemccoy and @abh12345) are creating awesome steemains, the influencers and leaders that will bring consistent quality traffic and content to steemit and when all the shit leaves, we will rise to the top.

It took me 5 years to become a Udemy Best Selling Instructor. I was an early adapter. @davemccoy you may be disheartened with steemit incs approach, as I was with Udemy. But being blockchain there are fundamental differences in steemit and udemy and I believe with the efforts being made on the ground by you and many others are not going unwanted. it may be unrecognized by those at the top and working the same ground that you do, I know how this feels. But you are creating an awesome future for your self and it will be more sustainable than what the bot owners and other devs are working on right now. they have capitalized to early and when steemit matures, they will realize this and move on else where. Just like what happened on Udemy,

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Paula, first let me say again how awesome it is to see this story. I am honestly blown away at the time it took you to tell this story with the elaborate detail so that I could understand your point. I definitely understand it and love the analogy. Sometimes putting something in the right context makes all the difference in the world, and in this case you made this difference.

I was disappointed at the facts which @lukestokes honestly laid out. These facts though finally made a lot of sense regarding why many of the things were the way they were on Steemit, and so my question to you all was legit. You have given me a different lens to view this information through, and I am happy to see things from your point of view.

I also appreciate the "pep talk", I recognize you gave me one and I am thankful to see that you would care enough to try to make me feel less disheartened. And I also want you to know that you succeeded, as I am much less disheartened that I was yesterday. That doesn't mean I like it or accept that it is right what they are doing, but I am going to focus on what I can focus on (which is helping my friends and others to have fun and be as successful as possible).

Your story with Udemy is uplifting and I also want to say congratulations on your success with them. The path you took to get that success is what made you what your are today, and now looking back I can see how it made you so strong and successful today!

Thank you again for the awesome comment, I appreciate it from so many levels!

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you are most welcome @davemccoy. Your questions and concerns are extremely legit and if I had not done the 'udemy' experience I would be asking the same questions as you.

You are a breath of fresh air on steemit and we both spend many hours trying to improve and help others here on the platform. It might be a slow process, but it will pay dividends.

You know the churn rate bugs the hell out of me and there are many things we can do as a community to ensure the 'mistakes' made by Udemy are not made here, because there were mistakes. There was no one on Udemy welcoming and helping new instructors and so when competition came (Skillsshare and other similar platforms), udemy took a massive hit.

It looks at the moment like Steemit will too. But if we could get more support from the whales and top witnesses, we could impact this a lot. its that part that frustrates me. There seems to be little acknowledgement or gratitude of the work we are doing for the long term viability of steemit. Right now more 'value' is seen in APPs and code which is reflected in the witness votes.

Coming to Steemit as a business person, I compare the witnesses to a board of directors. Members of a board tend to bring with them different skills, which are treated eqully. This is not yet the case on Steemit.

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Thank you again Paula, for the insight and for the kind words. I agree with you about the whales, if I knew a way to do it, I would definitely try.

But if we could get more support from the whales and top witnesses, we could impact this a lot.

I'm hoping with you, but from what I can tell, its a long way off in their minds at this point.

And very good point about the witnesses (especially the top 20 voting members). They've got the tech side of the business considered and represented, now they need a little bit of "sales" added to the mix. :)

Thank you again Paula...and have a wonderful weekend!

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Im going to have more than a wonderful weekend. Im flying off for 8 days break. Talk on my return

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@paulag lol... awesome Paula! Enjoy :)

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thank you @paulag . I sure did need to here what you have stated above .

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Paula, I will reply back tonight so that I have a chance to really reflect on your amazing response. I want to let you know that I read it, I respect it, I respect you for taking the time for putting it together, and I appreciate the education from it. I will say more later. But thank you!

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This is a fantastic response and perfect historical perspective. Thank you! I hope more people talk about theses issues who have experience like you have. Expectation management and learning from the past is so critically important.

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My respects to you @paulag, you've inspired me with your insights and your story on udemy. Thanks for sharing encouraging message for all the new users like me.

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I don't know if I would've spent every day of the last 6 months trying to be a part of a community, if I would've known this place didn't matter for anything more than a reference implementation.

The relationships that you build here do not go away, just because the platform evolves and supports a larger ecosystem and more applications. I would not consider the time you spend now building relationships with members of the community, growing your stake of SP, and learning about how the platform works a waste of time.

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Exactly.

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Thanks for the answer @timcliff... I have some questions about your point though. 1) how will the reputations be portable to any new platform, it seems like those are something that are based on only steemit rules? 2a) are things done on the other platforms (like say spam posting if they choose to openly allow it on their platform) flagable from steemit? 2b) are they taking rewards from the same reward pool and wouldn't we still be affected by these other platforms?

The reason I ask these questions is to understand how these relationships and reputations will translate across multiple platforms.

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The reputations, rewards, and transactions all occur on the Steem blockchain. Steemit.com is just a front-end website that interfaces with the blockchain. If you go to busy.org/@davemccoy - you will see all your same content posted there. Anything you post on DTube will show up on steemit.com too. It's actually pretty cool once you start to understand how everything is working under the hood :)

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Thanks for the info @timcliff!... I appreciate it... still not sure how they can set different rules from steemit if that is the case, but for now I'm happy to know that the reputations will port there too!

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You are misunderstanding @davemccoy point I think. While those stats are available on the blockchain they will not be carried over to different SMTS which will have their own values if I am not mistaken. Should Busy.org migrate to using an SMT rather than Steem itself then the reputation will not carry over and Steemit has little to no value. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The same would apply to the tokenization of the internet. Can you imagine any SMT that would like to import reputation levels from a different platform? The whole point of SMT's is to have your own unique reputation on your own unique platform.

EDIT: Change platform to whatever term you like, it's late and my brain is broken ^^

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I am interested in which of you is right on this @gnimeets... To me it makes a huge difference. Everything that is happening on steemit right now will basically be worthless (except for the people you actually get to know)... But even then it will be like starting over, and if everyone dispurses, then it will be a huge waste of our time.

From what @timcliff is saying that isn't going to be the case, but you are bringing up what intuitively came to my mind @gnimeets. Thanks for adding to the conversation and maybe Tim can clarify it to both of us!

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It is a little bit of both. The STEEM currency will still remain the primary currency of the Steem blockchain, and every post that is eligible for SMTs will also be eligible for STEEM. SMTs are in addition; they are not in replacement.

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good post ,,, can you share my experience with me

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Hi Dave / Luke

Firstly, thanks to both of you for the extensive discussion here and on your post Dave, and on the 'original' donkeypong submission.

I feel the topic has broadened and moved away from the 'do I/don't I support witnesses with a foot in each camp', but I'll just confirm that I expect witnesses, especially Luke, to hold their hands up and say 'sorry, my time with Steem is being impacted by goings on elsewhere' if that turns out to be the case. As we can see, the time taken to respond and the words being written show this witness is still here, and cares a lot.

Despite this 8 month old being thin on the ground with regards to substance, It does show that around this time, I realised that there was more to Steem than Steemit.
https://steemit.com/steem/@abh12345/battle-tested-steem-blockchain-going-to-kick-ass-in-2018

On the first news of SMT, it was in fact this post by @donkeypong, that opened my eyes to the future. He knew more than most about the future developments - this post appeared something like 30 minutes after the @steemitblog post announcing SMT ;)

https://steemit.com/smt/@donkeypong/the-day-the-paywalls-died-how-steem-s-smart-media-token-saved-my-family-s-newspaper

From this point my perspective changed, and I realised that the blogging interfaces would not be those driving the value of STEEM in the future. However, that's not to say that the 'work' we have done here is not going to go to waste, and that the relationships formed will be lost when the future plans turn into reality.

Steemit and other blogging interfaces will stick around I'm sure, and I hope to still be able to interact with those that saw the potential and communicated with care, and support for others.

Why am I here?

I'm here because I see Steem as a stepping-stone to a brighter future for myself and the good people here that believe the same. I love the fact that I can help and encourage people along the way, and that this in turn could also benefit me in the future too.

https://steemit.com/philosophy/@lukestokes/psychological-egoism-selfishly-improving-the-world-around-you

For what's its worth, I have no problem being labeled a test subject in this case. Testing technology is what i have done for many years, but in none of that time I have I been rewarded with as much information and good feeling as I have 'here'.

Cheers

Asher

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Asher, thank you for the wonderful reply and for attempting to encourage me. I have no doubt you would try to do so, and the platform is lucky to have you for sure. I know you get plenty of support and that you feel that your efforts are recognized, but in my opinion you are still way underappreciated and worth 10x what they are paying you ;) ...

I love your answer as to why you are here, especially the part about the good people and you being there for them. After bouncing this issue around in my mind all day, I have come to the conclusion that I too am here for that reason. I still have issues with Steemit Inc and the top 20 witnesses having their heads in the wrong places, but at the end of the day I want to see my friends succeed. That especially includes you!

So I will do what I can to help make this a better place and help make my friends and connections stronger. I hope you are right about the bright future, it would make me happy to see so many do so well!

Thank you again for the awesome effort to answer my questions! :)

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Thanks Dave :)

As long as I'm paying my bills and managing to power up some SBD, that's good enough for me.

Being able to support people and communities around the globe is really cool, and you can mix it via the community pool with a bit of your own here.

I'm still confident there are some good years ahead, the 0 powerdown's and hours I spend here are hopefully testament to that.

So I will do what I can to help make this a better place and help make my friends and connections stronger.

Please do, the more people we have with this as a key focus the better!

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Asher, you can truly follow the motto "if everyone were like me, how would this world be"... I think you are a role model that all of us can look up to for sure! (big boys and girls, along with the newbies and minnows too)

I know you are confident and that is encouraging, and I hope for your sake that everything works out kick ass! You are one that definitely deserves it!

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Very kind of you Dave. I have a couple of Steem sages I go back to when I need encouragement, they have guided me well.

A year or two yet, but it's coming (fingers crossed!

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Asher, both you and Paula have put together some awesome replies. I will reply to you both in my evening as I want to make sure to think everything through (plus I have some things going on today). I want to give you the courtesy of letting you know I read it and appreciate it. I will be back later with a deeper reply!

ps... good formatting! IF would be proud on that ;)

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Great comment, Asher. Thanks. :)

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Integrity, relationships, meeting people from all over the world. Growing! Enjoying many paradigm shifts! I am appreciating the open, honest, discussions! Lots of respect guys 🙌
Even more love, and hope we are bringing about the change we want to see in the world. One step at a time! I hope my hand is all shaky and I am an old lady with many a fine story to share long into the future with all of you 🌸🙏🌸

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Thank you @yogajill! And always happy to see your bright and positive attitude. You really do brighten up the place every time you show up ;)

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You're welcome! Likewise Dave 🍉🥕🍊 Thanks so much for DustSweeper too eh!!
It's awesome 🍎

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awww... thank you Jill, its a good way to end my day! :)

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Beautifully said, thank you. :)

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Thanks for replying respectfully.

I'm a programmer for more than 20 years, so I sometimes use jargon like "reference implementation" which I should probably explain. I do not mean Steemit is "just a test platform." A reference implementation can take many forms. The main bitcoin QT wallet, as an example, is also a reference implementation of how to interact with the Bitcoin protocol. Steemit is an example of what's possible on STEEM and it's doing a fairly good job of it, based on Alexa ratings, but as you've said, it's struggling lately.

That's a really good question you asked. Why are you here? I think everyone should ask themselves this. Some never do and wonder why they are so frustrated with things because they've never stopped to analyze their own motivations and goals.

What I can glean from your answer is it is all meaningless.

I strongly disagree. Please read this post and the three posts I reference there (especially the one on relationships): #SteemitIsToMe: Relationships, Reputation, and Rewards.

Everything done on the STEEM blockchain is available to every platform on the STEEM blockchain. I could be replying from Busy.org or my local computer or who knows what. It's not about Steemit. It's about the blockchain and the opportunities it creates for us all. Those relationships will still be there, even if fewer people use the Steemit.com interface to view the STEEM blockchain content and instead use a different interface.

I don't think this is all just a test and I do strongly disagree with wealth extraction (see my post I referenced about that).

I don't agree with treating anyone like a lab rat. Scroll through a few months of my posts and see how many meaningful comments I get. I've built some very meaningful relationships here that are very valuable to me, and I've had many people tell me how much I've helped and encouraged them.

So again, you asked a good question: What are you here? Is it to build community or something else? If it's community, did you succeed in that goal? Do you have people who you enjoy engaging with and have you built real relationships?

I think it's overly pessimistic to think, as an early adopter, you're a "lab rat." Not at all. We are pioneers. Frankly, lots of people have a massive sense of entitlement and it's kind of annoying.

We can do better.

Know why you are here. Be here for that. If Steemit, Busy, STEEM or whatever isn't what you expect it to be, then talk about it like you are doing here. Let's work together to improve things. We aren't lab rats. We're the early adopters who get to tell future Steemians "Back in my day..."

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Again thank you for the reply and the honesty. I do completely agree with you 100% on this point:

Let's work together to improve things. We aren't lab rats. We're the early adopters who get to tell future Steemians "Back in my day..."

I'm ready and I'm sure there are many many here that would love to work with you to improve things... I know the witnesses on my list would be happy to work with you to make improvement. I speak frequently with @abh12345 @danielsaori and somewhat frequently with @yabapmatt @jackmiller and @paulag. I know all 5 of those individual witnesses would love to improve things, so if dealing with many small guys takes too much time, then I know you can get some good ideas and work with them!

And I am always reachable on discord at davemccoy#2479 (if you care to talk to me directly!)

Again thank you for engaging honestly and glad we are having this discussion!

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I'm glad we are also. Thanks for caring so much about STEEM and Steemit. :)

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This kind of constructive discussion simply doesn't happen on Twitter, Reddit, Facebook or any other platform. How often do we see a post starting out with a very critical tone, ultimately finding common ground and ending up in collaboration in the comment section. The open mindset and willingness to learn with the Steem adopters really make this platform worthwhile.

What matters is NOT the economy, it's the people!

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Well said! It's amazing what happens when things are on chain and there are motivational incentives (reputation, financial, influential, etc) to remain respectful, even there are disagreements.

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based on Alexa ratings, but as you've said, it's struggling lately.

Keep in mind that a lot of traffic has moved lately to other Steem based platforms like DLive, DMania, DTube and a lot of other platforms.

I don't know if Alexa ratings are still relevant for the success of Steem, anymore :)

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👆 This is true. I have done the research on a dozen domains as part of my project.

I follow Dave and respect what he is doing on this platform and I have seen some pretty amazing things that he has done in rallying people to worthy causes and when I read his post, oh man was I ready to rip you to shreds and then I read your post and still wanted to curse you for having such a view on Steem Users and content creators. I was ready to start tying an angry comment but like an angry email I learned that one needs a calm mind to write a response.

So I walked, had a cup of coffee and marveled at the blue sky then I went back to this post.

read it 4 times, read all the links you listed to get a better understanding of you and your message. I might have commented once in a blog post but normally I don't get to read your posts.

I am a prolific reader and commenter in this platform like Dave and we are both nearing 9k comments in the 6 months that we have been here in the platform.

Our Why is community building and engagement of the little folks and this mostly why I don't have a lot of comments with whales and top witnesses not because I don't care or need you but because those that I follow and comment on are people that I resonate with regardless of their wallet size and voting power.

But I was glad that I did stop because I was able to read your thoughts on those issues, I was able to read your reply to Dave's comment here in your post. So in a little way I understood Luke Stokes and I might not 100% agree with everything but I respect you and what you are trying to do. If I had an empty witness vote I would vote you but then you don't need my 1.5 MV vote and it would serve better the rest of the 30 witnessess I have currently.

I know that Steemit as a condenser or a front end is but one access point and it is pretty bare bones so we know that Steemit Inc plan is to have other people create the condensers this would explain why they have delegations to Busy.org, to Utopian, to Dlive, Dtube and even Dmania at one point (not sure that the delegation was returned when Dmania went back now)

Steemit INc is concentrating on the blockchain technology making it possible not just to scale to 1 million active user, not even 2 million but to scale really big in the hundreds of million and it makes sense. I had this comment and reply with paulag about how Steem at this moment cannot function with millions when its timing out and bandwidth issues we are experiencing.

It all makes sense now.

Yeah with some of the technical terms you may have used that caused some misunderstanding but we have to separate the idea that Steemit.com is Steem. Steem is what we are after to flourish and grow and we are not just talking about the crypto but the blockchain itself.

I have seen Sneak's comments a year ago to some comments and others and decided that I really don't like him and what his thoughts are but then I and my stake of 1.5 MV hardly matters to him.

as for your being a witness in EOSDAC I don't have a much of an issue with that unlike other people and I might draw some hate here but as I see it majority of cryptopeople like to diversify and being in Steem and EOS does not seem an entire conflict of interest for me and may even pave the way for inter blockchain connection although that is like waiting for hell to freeze over hahhaa.

It will be a problem if you intentionally sabotage one or both platforms btu you are an okay guy from what I read on your thoughts and posts.

Both platforms may even get better as you will be in a way to compare how both are being run and suggest the best course of action.

A lot would argue that an apprentice cannot have two masters as one will give eventually and you will have to choose and if you choose EOS know that all you did here will not be forgotten and if you choose Steem then you will continue to be a person that will tell it as it is without sugar coating.

Yet being in the top 19 witnesses you have the responsibility and move other witnesses and Steemit Inc to care about communities and to what people like Dave and the rest community builders are trying to do.

You are in the position to positively influence and give some importance to people. Steemit the condenser is a test, the people are not.

You have grasp on both technological and sociological aspect of the Steem Blockchain and everything it covers from apps and condensers to the community of people all over the world.

with communities and a focus on the future interface for Steemit, we won't be wasting effort trying to put bandaids on the current front-end.

Education, the right message and communities are key aspects of getting the right people who will comtinue to build their Steem power and becoming influencers in the platform.

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Wow, thank you for such a great reply, @maverickinvictus. Followed.

Your response gives me continued optimism about our species. We CAN overcome our primitive, primal, emotionally-driven, tribalistic response mechanisms and instead be calm and rational. Sometimes it takes a walk in nature to figure that out. :)

You've made so many good points here, I really appreciate them and thank you for your voice of support for what I'm doing here. I really do appreciate that.

Yet being in the top 19 witnesses you have the responsibility and move other witnesses and Steemit Inc to care about communities and to what people like Dave and the rest community builders are trying to do.

You are right. I will continue to increase my efforts in this regard. If you'd like insight on what I've done so far along these lines, have a conversation with @andrarchy and I think it would be fair to say he'd agree I have made this a passion of mine to ensure Steemit, inc not only communicates effectively to their community but most importantly demonstrates they do care about the needs and concerns of the community.

Luke, I greatly appreciate these types of posts as you are one of the few witnesses or anyone with an affiliation with Steemit Inc. willing to take a mediating position between users and the development side. Both critical and explanatory, not over-aggressive nor defensive. You're at least willing to be open and discuss the explicit concerns of the many who are struggling with all the faults of this current platform and community.

I agree with your approach of patience. Rome was not built in a day and any precedent technology to the Steem blockchain took closer to a decade to build out. I don't much care for the price, which exchanges Steem/SBD are listed on, or really much of the marketing concern that is brought up so often. These are all short-term issues to the larger vision of a global blockchain.

My increasing concern, and I believe many other long-timers share the same sentiments, is that the assumption that we should hold our breaths and everything will work out once the technology is polished is a very dangerous perspective that will ultimately harm the prospects and work against the ambitions of Steem. I am doubtful (and would love my mind changed on this) that the components that the Steem ecosystem has been seriously lacking until now - public education (more so than marketing), systematized feedback, a public presence and voice in the blockchain sector, scheduled and expected engagement and updates, more extensive resources for newcomers (including investors and institutional partners) to the Steem blockchain (not just developer tools), support for meaningful Steem-based projects with its own governance system, and so on - will suddenly get better once we're out of Beta. Old habits die hard and I'm concerned that if these facets are not worked upon or at least discussed at the top now, Steem will ultimately lose out to competitors who are covering some of the aforementioned bases very well.

I can't help but also share a bit of @schattenjaeger's sentiments here that somehow negligence (under the guise of 'priorities') on many fronts is permissible because the next 10 or 100 million users are what count. If a system isn't healthy at a small scale, it won't be healthy at a larger one. And many of Steemit's issues aren't tied to its scalability or underlying tech, they're very human issues.

Looking forward to any feedback.

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Great comment, thank you.

the assumption that we should hold our breaths and everything will work out once the technology is polished is a very dangerous perspective that will ultimately harm the prospects and work against the ambitions of Steem.

I completely agree. So what do you think is the best thing we can do about it? My suggestion would be to get more developers involved providing issues and pull requests on Github. If there's a problem on Steemit, let's describe it accurately in an issue and start working on a code change to fix it. Yes, we can wait on Steemit inc to do everything, but, as you said, that's like just holding our breath. If we care, we should get involved. That might even mean having some witnesses hire some developers directly.

If a system isn't healthy at a small scale, it won't be healthy at a larger one.

I agree to a point. Company culture matters, but I also want to move far away from Steemit, inc being the sole company that defines the culture of STEEM or Steemit. I've pointed out company culture issues in the past with Steemit, inc (and I think they are making improvements based on more open communication lately) and I agree, they should be working on this stuff now AND in the future.

Old habits die hard

Yep.

public education (more so than marketing), systematized feedback, a public presence and voice in the blockchain sector

I completely agree. Ironically, this discussion was born out of me essentially defending my perspective that the witnesses should be involved in more things in the wider blockchain sector. They should be respected voices who are asked to speak at more conferences. We see some of this, but not enough. I'll be on a Panel at TulipCon next weekend and Discon in August not because I'm a STEEM witness, but because of my involvement with DPOS in general and more specifically EOS, eosDAC, and (yes) STEEM. In all cases, I'll be discussing the goal which is to increase human well-being and create a world we all want to live in. The tools we use to do that are just tools. If we want our voices heard outside of the STEEM community then we need to be deeply engaged outside the STEEM community.

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I've read those previous posts regarding involvement in other blockchains and I think the tribalism is silly. One of the things Steemit really has going for it is its capacity to house information and development of all other blockchains. Facebook and Google and Amazon might compete on some fronts but they work in tandem in others and that makes for a more robust ecosystem. Putting on blinders and swearing loyalty oaths in an emerging sector isn't just silly but also poor self-preservation.

I'm all for non-witness non-Steemit Inc. stakeholders in picking up slack and spearheading what they respectively see as needed in this community. I try to do the same with @voronoi at @sndbox. The biggest obstacle is the lack of connectivity between individual efforts and administrative ones. I give lectures and workshops about Steem in New York and yea, we can tweet and post about it but it doesn't quite accumulate into broader publicity and education. We've also found that it reflects poorly on Steemit Inc. when we do major projects/activities and there isn't at least some degree of involvement from the top. The same goes for your talk and @stephenkendal's booths or @dlive's meetups. It often feels like a 1+1+1+1 = 0.5 type of situation as a grassroots momentum of activity doesn't resonate at the top and there isn't any structured mechanism for the top to leverage the groundswell of efforts. It should be a 1+1+1+1 = 20 type of momentum but individual efforts are drowned out by the next batch of bid-botted posts and just passed over by time in general.

Maybe there can be an endorsed account dedicated to publicity? Maybe some type of formal curation/resteeming by Steemit Inc.? Some way to accumulate the diverse activities of Steemians in a cohesive dialogue and archive that is also pushed by the team high above would be incredible.

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Lots of good points here. I wonder sometimes if we're just going through a transition where people need to hear from a "representative" of an organization or they want to hear a company title or some form of "authority" they can trust instead of just a bunch of random people doing awesome stuff in a meritocracy (or, at least, an attempt at one) where value speaks for itself.

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Meh, I don't think you can have it both ways - an infrastructure that supposedly relies on the autonomous workings of dedicated, decentralized individuals and at the same time have a governing organization that is largely indifferent and unable to leverage the cumulative momentum of said network.

But I guess we'll see where we end up.

You nailed it @lukestokes.

I wrote the other day that I could care less if the Steemit team approved another account until the SMTs were released after getting the back end up to par.

The fact that Steemit is doing no marketing is not a problem to me. Why should they market something only to bring people to a place that cant handle the traffic. Too many believe that since the blockchain can handle x number of transactions per second, that is all there is. You know a lot better than I do there is so much more to it.

It is sad that people are set up to fail by the "steem marketers" who are posting on Facebook and YouTube...they are touting the money to be made on here. Pure foolishness. If they knew the damage they were truly causing, I dont think they would do it. Some of those people who turn away could develop the next great app on here.

We all are impatient because we can see how big this can be. I concur with the idea, dont worry about the first 1M but, rather, how can 100M-250M be handled. That is the type of traffic that the STEEM blockchain is going to have.

Thanks for all you do trying to educate the masses.

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It's a tough pill to swallow for many, especially because they don't understand the technical hurdles of building a social media platform on a blockchain. So many people have talked about Steemit competitors.

Where are they?

How active are they?

This is still one of the most active (by user activity) blockchain applications out there. That's something we can be proud of right now.

He essentially said he doesn't care about the first million or two million users. He cares about the next 100 million users.

It does sound harsh to not care about the early adopters but if/when we do get the the 100 million users level, anyone here now who powered up and hodled through would find their Steem to be very much in demand. Potentially, life-changing wealth.

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Potentially life-changing wealth sounds great to me :)

Yeah, I think many people just aren't in a safe place to think in terms of long-term interest. They are primarily focused on short term survival gains. Unfortunately, that just increases the gap between those who have and those who do not.

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People arent conditioned to think long term.

We live in an instant gratification world. Give it to me now is the mindset.

Everyone wants $75 STEEM today. It takes time to build something of this magnitude.

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I want $100 STEEM! Yesterday!

Hehe. You're right.

I am not exactly sure why people on steemit have been showing so much antagonism towards other upcoming platforms. Let me spell out my strategy - 'When these other platforms come into existence, I will make an an account there and promote steemit like crazy'.

Today in a reply to a post by @steemitadventure (a fabulous artist) I was discussing the same thing. As long as the pros are doing their jobs, you cannot tell them what they can or cannot do.

I am sure there are a lot of people working in banks who have accounts on steemit and are earning steem here. Nobody is telling them to leave the evil banks or leave steemit (partly because they might be anonoymous).

My argument might be simplistic but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have truth in it.

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Some people just operate out of fear. They see competition and they get scared. Instead, they should get more focused on providing value and leveling up their understanding. We can contribute value.

He essentially said he doesn't care about the first million or two million users. He cares about the next 100 million users.

I find that hilariously arrogant to be perfectly blunt. And I always am.

Getting 100 million users is impossible without getting the first million. Getting two users is impossible before getting the first.

That's like starting a company from scratch, and telling your customers during the first few years that they don't matter, who matter are the customers who come after you.

Take a guess how long that company stays in business.

And even if it does, it's still extremely rude and egomaniacal to say something like that to those who had a part in building something for the 100 million users.

No matter how big or small their contribution.

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I agree with you and told him as much in Lisbon. Sneak and I have had... interesting interactions. Sometimes I don't understand where they are coming from and try to gain as much value from the conversation as I can, but sometimes I'm just like, "Huh?"

That said, the point of prioritizing first things first does make sense. When Steemit, inc was falling down hard, focusing on marketing and promotion and user retention doesn't make sense as something to prioritize.

I think Steemit has a nice head start and many people are still excited about the idea of getting paid for content here, but I also think they need to get some code in production quickly or, as you said, they will have trouble "staying in business." Their communication efforts lately are a big improvement from what we saw in the past, and I'm quite happy about that. There's still room for improvement in many other areas, especially demonstrating care for new users here.

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Isn't Sneak German? So, it could also be a case of his words just coming out wrong since it's not his native language. I just felt compelled to be fair enough to point that out.

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That's an important point, thanks for bringing it up. I try not to be judgmental or condemning. Sometimes I have trouble understanding some people and it's possibly just cultural.

Interesting and I have been hearing more and more from many sides lately.

I will say this, no matter what ANYONE is saying, I have found your willingness to be available to discuss, whether it is online, on Discord at different Witness discussions, etc, to be commendable.

I don't agree with you on 100% of the issues. No one does. I also don't agree with any other witness or developer on 100% of the issues. That's life on the blockchain... but, no one can doubt your commitment to making the Steem platform better.

And as long as you are willing to discuss and move forward, THAT'S what is important to me.

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I think it's important for witnesses to be social in order to understand and support the applications built for a social platform.

I'm glad to not agree 100%. That would be boring and would bring no growth at all.

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yes... friction ironically helps, not just grinds!

New users such as myself that have just enough knowledge to understand that steemit is more valuable as a long term commitment appreciate all you do to educate us and improve the platform 🙏🏼 Thank you!

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🙏🏼☺️

maybe the issue is not the platform evolving but the ones that it is sacrificing on the way. the social media app that we use today is no less important to all the other apps that are going to come in.

i think a sincere attempt must be made to retain the users who got steemit to a point where real apps can come on board.

is it possible that the comment about "not caring for the first million user" is misrepresented? because i cannot imagine a company or a community that can make that statement and then expect to retain the goodwill that will carry them upwards in the future.

Maybe what @davemccoy is saying is that a company could care less but a community always cares. that is the difference, isn't it?

let us put this into a different perspective. most startups struggle to get a user base going. blockchains like steemit get it with far less difficulty by promising rewards. then when the user base leaves, can we make a comment that they dont matter since their job is done and their usefulness is over? in fact blockchains should have high loyalty to its members because they are indeed the difference makers.

i don't know about the rest of you but the reasoning sounds hollow to me.

However i can understand the line of reasoning the minute we stop thinking like a community and instead fancy ourselves as a company or corporation. then everything makes perfect sense.

let us hope that we do our sincere best to retain users who have been part of the community from the outset and who have brought it to this point

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the minute we stop thinking like a community and instead fancy ourselves as a company or corporation. then everything makes perfect sense.

Exactly this!

The STEEM blockchain and all the applications built on top of it are not a "company" but an open, permission-less system that anyone can participate it.

WHY they participate is completely up to them to determine. Each individual has to find their own reasoning for value here. That's ultimately not anyone's job other than the individual.

I'm done trying to convince people to get involved in cryptocurrency. I tried that for far too many years with limited results. Instead I'm just going to show them. Steemit is a way to do that.

I've been assuming that the Steem team are holding back on marketing until they feel the platform is ready, but many will be wondering why they seem inactive. What we have now is just a hint of what this platform can be. It's amazing what some people have achieved here, but it think the greed of some of them does harm the image of steemit. I still hope to see it achieve the things talked about at Steemfest. I know it takes a lot of work behind the scenes. They have to get it right. I know I need to be patient

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Yeah, there's a lot of work to be done for sure. Lots of promises (both explicitly made and implied) and expectations. Greed and wealth extraction over wealth creation is a real problem. I do think we can make some technical changes to make it harder to exploit, but ultimately we're hoping to change human nature itself. The technology can do that. In a way, technology made us human.

The more user-friendly apps will be built when SMTs come out, I'm sure. Along with thousands of other apps that will focus on user retention.

User retention is important to a certain point though, because if Steem doesn't retain a good number of users until SMTs come out, the price will tank, and we're all screwed. But with al the activity I see on here, I think we're pretty safe for the time being.

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Do you think user activity directly relates to price?

What about cryptocurrencies which have no "user activity" at all?

Maybe give my post on STEEM > Steemit a read. It might give you some valuable perspective.

And yes, I agree, user retention will be huge for polished apps built by real companies with real business objectives.

I have been here for a year and am still learning but am also here for the long term (5-10 yrs) and looking forward to seeing it grow, yes there will be growing pains but having a long term vision will get us thru.

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Heck yeah! A long term approach is the right way to think about this space. Cryptocurrency and blockchain technology is still quite new. We have a lot more innovation to do.

I too had a long winded comment on this subject, so I posted instead

https://steemit.com/steem/@indurkin/steem-vs-eos-build-bridges-not-fences

It surprises me just how many websites already use the steem block chain. I expect that number to continue to increase. @ironshield

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I agree. We haven't seen anything yet. :)

If SMT comes out more user-friendly applications will be built, there will be thousands of other applications which will focus on user's concepts. If Steem does not hold a good number of customers, then the SMT will come out, the price will be tanks, and we're all screwed. But with this activity I saw here, I think we feel quite safe for the time being.

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I don't think the price of STEEM will ever tank since it's the underlying token which would control all the bandwidth for the SMT platforms. "We'll all be screwed" isn't quite accurate. :)

very thoughtful response. I just found out now that you are a top witness. this makes me to choose you. thanks sir

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Thanks for your support.

even you do not take long to respond. I just hope for the best. think postif better for our health. thanks sir. I will choose you as a witness, because I feel comfortable after knowing your heart's content.

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So interesting to read this Luke. The last time I heard someone talk about steem in this way was from @gringalicious. You know I've been semi lost wandering the beaches of South East Asia for most of the past decade, so coming to a solid understanding of the magnitude and potential of the Steem blockchain system is quite mind blowing.

And on that note I wanted to swing by your blog, let you know that I just passed 2,000 followers, it's been almost exactly one year and huge milestone for me. I did a post about my experience and of course gave you a shout out.

Still something that will never change, you kept me on the platform and staying here has been rewarding on many levels and has changed my life so endless gratitude you will receive from me. Thanks buddy!

From Glens Fall New York - Dan

https://steemit.com/steemit/@world-travel-pro/world-travel-pro-hits-2000-followers-my-steemit-experience-after-one-year-and-a-huge-shout-to-my-steemit-friends-1527522804

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Hey Dan! Thanks so much for stopping by and congratulations on one year!

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Thank you Luke!

Thanks for all the work you are doing for the platform and the community. I'm new here but still an early adopter and I will stay even I'm struggling right now. Thanks for the information you provided about the situation of steemit and its promising future.

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You're welcome!

Sometimes people think they are "nobody" or somehow not important because they are new or not an investor or whatever, but I think it's important for us all to learn from everyone using the platform. Often fresh perspectives see things that those of us who have been here for almost two years don't see.

Thank you for continuously educating people about blockchain and in particular, this blockchain and it's dynamics. I'm in awesome wonder constantly about the future. Good to see all the commentary below as well. After my initial crush under learning about the dustvote, I have personally put an emotional mote around myself; however, much needed to remain flexible for the long term. I think those who can find their reason; will have their season (as Paula has on Udemy.)

ignore this post please, thx

well, the comment from sneak and I also think the whole reason for this post has to do with your big aim.
to translate nerd to human.

I focus on helping explain the technical things in simple terms so more people can understand what this place is all about and set their expectations appropriately.

and the thing is that sometimes things get lost in translation.
Everyone is focusing on the fact what @sneak said about the 100 million users but this also is something I think is where there was a case of mistranslation.
Its more like he is working for a bright future for this platform and its not that he does not care for the users now but is focused on creating a better future for those here and those to come (my translation)

I personally think I got lucky that I just stumbled onto steem about a year ago and did not have any expectations. I was not lured here with promises of wealth.
And I tried to learn about this wonderful technology and am still learning.
This is also why I promote steem a lot at our meetups and will do at our conference. I have faith that even though its in "beta" it keeps improving.

It is also part of the reason why I have set up (with some others)@steemwitness. I believe in the future of this blockchain and want to get more involved. Instead of buying crypto I am renting a server and securing this blockchain. (for the moment we are still red but we are hopeful that this will turn green the longer we are here and the more we prove we are here to help and support)