SteemWorld Update / New Tool Available / Abuse Finder

2개월 전


There is a new tool called 'Abuse Finder' to be found in the Homescreen on SteemWorld (also directly reachable via steemworld.org/abuse-finder).

The tool is partially still in development (especially the downvote features), but it can already be used to detect potential rewardpool abusers. The default values in the search criteria form may change in future and, of course, the found accounts in the summary list may not always only show real abusers.

Nobody should be downvoted blindly based on the results of this tool and I encourage everyone to check the abuser's posts first.

Content Type defines if the tool should search for comments or root posts.

Number Of Posts To Check defines the number of posts to be checked (ordered by payout amount descending). Currently 1000 seems to work good for both comments and root posts.

Total Payout Threshold defines how high the total pending payout of all active posts (per author) needs to be to add the author to the Potential Abusers list. Current default value for comments is 25 and for root posts 250. These settings will not always work perfectly and need to be changed from time to time.

By clicking on Find Abusers the tool begins to search for posts and filter the found results based on the given search criteria. A table with the detected Potential Abusers will be displayed.


Current results for comments:

Current results for root posts:


Below the Potential Abusers list there will be a table with all found posts (ordered by payout amount descending) displayed:


Downvoting posts directly in the tool is not implemented yet (buttons are disabled), but I'm working on it ;)

Have fun and Steem on!

If you like what I do and you want me to be your Steem witness,
please vote for @steemchiller on steemit.com/~witnesses or steemworld.org/witnesses.


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This is a very good system.
Some users are using STEEMIT to mining STEEM.
I think this is a big problem and must be solved.

It would be best if the community could solve this problem, but there is a limit due to the high Steempower of users doing abusing.
I hope Steemit sees and solves this problem.

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The abusers list already changed hugely in the last few days (total payouts were much higher in some cases), because there are already a few whales like @bullionstackers, @steemzzang, @donekim, @virus707, @cjsdns, @photoholic, @steem-agora and more working hard on decreasing the abusers payouts with downvotes.

People who don't like downvotes must know that their own payouts will automatically go up when the abusers payouts go down, because that's how Steem's rewardpool works.

Together we will make it ;)

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People who don't like downvotes must know that their own payouts will automatically go up when the abusers payouts go down, because that's how Steem's rewardpool works.

Exactly! I always try to explain that ...

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@jaki01 @steemchiller
I am agree 100% with this things. But I don't agree the concept of free downvotes or say there should not be different voting power for upvote and downvote. The voting power should be same, wherever you want use it, if you like use as upvote or downvote. Not agree with individual voting power concept, which is currently running in our system.

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We already agreed to disagree concerning that. And that's fine. I won't downvote you (or anybody else) for disagreement on opinion. :-)

I repeat my point of view for the other readers: if downvotes 'cost' too much, people will ask themselves "Why should I pay to downvote spam/plagiarism/farming while others are busy earning money?" :)

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Yes, we both understand the things.

I repeat my point of view for the other readers: if downvotes 'cost' too much, people will ask themselves "Why should I pay to downvote spam/plagiarism/farming while others are busy earning money?" :)

First things is, No one is paying for downvotes in both condition. It is that not earning, which they can earn.
If we have given power to others without their some loss, they will use that power in wrong things also. If they have to fear of loose something then they care about the power, when they use it. They use it when necessary (no other way is there).

That is difference in free and having some charge. Free things they use without concern about that.

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Unfortunatelly @mehta - the end result would be that hardly anyone would downvote any content. That's simple as that.

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@crypto.piotr
That is not possible because i received many downvotes at the time when no free downvotes are there. And many more downvoting accounts are their like steemcleaner etc at that time.
If committee will be their to take care of flag complaint, it will worked where actually it require.

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Why should I flag a plagiarist spending my own voting power while for example you use your voting power to earn curation reward?
Look, nobody would do anything against abuse in this scenario (which we had before on STEEM).

Your concern is that aggressive whales may flag more if flags are 'free'. Therefore I suggested the implementation of an elected committee to counter abusive flags.

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I like the your post regarding downvote link given in above comment.

But i again say that you can think it other way. Make a committee of respected users elected by community and equipped with sufficient SP to flag the post those are abusing (milking/farming purposes) the system. Not for as you mentioned.

Keep the one voting power for upvote/downvote and if any steemians feels that someone is abusing the system then inform to committee and committee analysis and take decision and according to decision they can downvote that user posts/comments.

Think it other way. Why everyone downvote, when we can have a committee for it.

In your suggestion first everyone downvotes others and then committee will correct. It means first we do wrong thing then we correct.
In my suggestion in first time we do correct thing.

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hi @jaki01

I repeat my point of view for the other readers: if downvotes 'cost' too much, people will ask themselves "Why should I pay to downvote spam/plagiarism/farming while others are busy earning money?" :)

Very good point.

What would you say about an idea to build some blacklist and ensure that users who would end up on this blacklist wouldn't be able to upvote (their upvote wouldn't provide any rewards and it's value would be zero).

That would obviously have to be programmed by STINC, who would have to adjust their API.

Yours, Piotr

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I think I would prefer to counter upvotes respectively flags of these accounts automatically to neutralize them.
Then no intervention on blockchain level would be necessary, and the decision could be easily reversed again.

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hi @mehta

What would you say about an idea to build some blacklist and ensure that users who would end up on this blacklist wouldn't be able to upvote (their upvote wouldn't provide any rewards and it's value would be zero).

That would obviously have to be programmed by STINC, who would have to adjust their API.

Yours, Piotr

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Hello @crypto.piotr

What would you say about an idea to build some blacklist and ensure that users who would end up on this blacklist wouldn't be able to upvote (their upvote wouldn't provide any rewards and it's value would be zero).

Where i said this? I don't want any blacklist and also don't want to upvote value zero for that type of account. I never says that. I don't understand from where you conclude this.

I just say that voting power should be same for upvote/downvote, No different voting power for upvote and downvote. It means no free downvotes, like we have earlier.

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Sorry for such a late reply

Where i said this? I don't want any blacklist and also don't want to upvote value zero for that type of account. I never says that. I don't understand from where you conclude this.

I'm confused. I asked about your opinion on that idea. I didn't say that "you said it".

Yours, Piotr

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Our team doesn't have enough SP, but we support it with Korean Witness.

The SP of Korea Community is not enough to solve all the abusing.
More people need to participate in Downvote or Steemit's help.

Many people are negative about Downvote. I don't think it's a good system either.
However, we need a replaceable system to remove Downvote.

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I'm very perplexed about why the korean community would downvote at all. My impression was that the proxy.token was representative for a large portion of the Korean community and they pushed hard to eliminate downvoting. So I would have expected them to shun such an action.

Maybe I was mistaken and proxy.token doesn't represent as much of the Korean community as I thought. Or maybe they just changed their mind. Or maybe this bunch of witnesses is the same as the old bunch of witnesses. They seem to be doing the same things (freezing accounts, frequently trending posts, trying to help clean up the place, etc.). Only time will tell, but up to this point, history seems to be repeating itself.

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I'm very perplexed about why the korean community would downvote at all.

There is a difference between real authors and people who just post senseless comments to upvote them and sell the rewards on external markets. Most people don't like to downvote normal content and I still believe that, once the current storms are over, we won't need free downvotes anymore.

Maybe we can create a community account for fighting abuse in future, which does not belong to one person/group and can only downvote based on fixed consensus rules. The majority of stakeholders would need to agree, before the account is able to start downvoting an author. Maybe an account that can not be powered down like the @steem.dao account. It could even be paid (directly powered up) by the SPS.

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Dear @steemchiller

Maybe we can create a community account for fighting abuse in future, which does not belong to one person/group and can only downvote based on fixed consensus rules.

Well, in that case why wouldn't we convince STINC to allow to blacklist particular users from being able to receive curation rewards - also based on fixed consensus rules.

I think that would be the best solution. We cannot keep downvoting same people hoping that they will not get bored abusing the pool. We would end up getting bored and tired of it first.

Cheers, Piotr

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Our team and several Witness keep thinking about how to solve this.
Our team agrees with the blacklist system and believes that a community voting system like SPS is needed.

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Sorry for such a late reply. I only had a chance to read your comment a moment ago

Thx for your comment. I love to see how responsive you are :))

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Downvote reduces rewards, which can be confusing if someone don't understand the system.
This is a negative factor in using Steemit.

Steemit is not just for those who understand blockchain. So our team thinks we need a different solution.

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Here are some interesting thoughts on the topic by @remlaps:
https://steemit.com/hive-101145/@remlaps/re-steemchiller-q91w4e

As I wrote recently:

Of course, there are various reasons for downvoting content and maybe we won't need it for normal content in future. The way the old witnesses have gone (for example, automatically downvoting people based on the used number of words in a post) clearly was not the best one.
 
I think we should mainly focus on real abuse, cases where someone posts 10 senseless comments a day and upvotes each of them 100% with a $5 vote. Of course, the same goes for trashy root posts. But I think we will never find a working measurement instrument for quality content, because people are just too different.

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If interested you may read my post about the downvote topic.

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thx for sharing, will check it out right away

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hi @roadofrich, @moeknows

I agree with you. Perhaps you could check my comment to @jaki01 (I don't want to copy+paste it to many times) in this topic.

Yours, Piotr

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Are those users organized and working together @steemchiller?

What the h... - wow!
This is a very useful and at the same time quite powerful tool. Thank you!

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Yes, definitely very useful tools. @steemchiller making very useful tools every time. Love the steemworld.org

steemd.com has a handy list of abusers. Seems you're #1 on it though, why's that?

image.png

I want to be able to recommend Steem with a clear conscience, I wrote that in my February post Steem - ein Loch ist im Eimer.

The Abuse Finder is a great step in this direction!

Gut gemacht. Dieses Tool hätte ich gern schon vor gut einem Jahr gebrauchen können.
Erstaunlich welche Accounts dort an der Spitze stehen. Einige haben vor gar nicht all zu langer Zeit, sowas verabscheut und bekämpft.
Soll man diese Doppelmoral gut heißen und auf der einen Blockchain farmen und auf der Anderen gegen dieses vorgehen?
Ist es auf einer kaputten zentralen Plattform legetim und auf der anderen Schwester-Blockchain zu verpönen?
Sollte man solchen Witnesses noch vertrauen können, nur weil sie uns versichern es auf Hive nicht zu tun?
Ist mir Scheißegal welche Konsequenzen es für mich hat, ich werde meine Schlüsse daraus ziehen und dementsprechend handeln.

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Meine Antworten auf deine (rhetorischen?) Fragen:

  1. Nein
  2. Nein
  3. Nein

Und ich weiß nicht, ob allen "Rächern" klar ist, was ich ganz am Anfang einem eher kleinen "Melker" sagte: Sie nehmen ihren Namen mit! Das Verhalten bleibt immer im Hinterkopf hängen.
Daraus habe ich bereits Schlüsse samt Konsequenzen gezogen. Und das fühlt sich gut für mich an. Dass es vermutlich niemanden schert, ist auch mir egal.

I thought Justin wanted to remove downvotes. Isn't that part of the plan?

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Justin doesn't care. It is the people who are now downvoting who wanted to remove them. The irony is real.

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Interesting. Thanks for mentioning this! I will try to find out why there are not all posts from trending being included.

Why is no one downvoting haejin?

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I guess, because he is not powering down. There are people in the list who are just here for milking the system and selling their earned STEEM afterwards on external markets. Those are the first ones that need to be cared about.

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I guess, because he is not powering down.

I guess because of fear of retaliation! He is without any doubt one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) abuser of the platform.

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I guess because of fear of retaliation!

I guess, because he is not powering down.

In my opinion, you have both a valid point.

That's one of the reasons why we launched an initiative that you can found here.

Having an independent entity that focuses solely on tackling abuse is something that we should really be thinking about.

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I like your idea.

In my opinion, in addition there has also to be done anything against personal 'flag wars', otherwise you won't be able to convince people who fear these kinds of flags. In the past many users have left STEEM because they were harassed by certain whales. You already know my idea of implementing a committee.

If your "independent entity" could solve that problem, too, I would be even happier. :)

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Definitely, a committee is really necessary. What I like about having an Independent entity to fight abuse is that it will operate and act as a [Nuclear Deterrent Mechanism].

Deterrence theory holds that nuclear weapons are intended to deter other states from attacking with their nuclear weapons, through the promise of retaliation and possibly mutually assured destruction (MAD).

People with power will be more inclined to move on and avoid abusing their power.

What if the entity starts abusing its power? It will be pointless, the account Will have a lot of limitations, and the community will have the final decision on whether the account should be terminated or not.

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Sure, why not ... however, there could also be guidelines / rules / limitations for a 'committee account'.

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I wish it would be possible to DELEGATE downvoting resource credits.

Let's say that I would be willing to downvote some abusers, but I would be worried to get hurt. I could delegate my downvoting power to someone larger (like yourself) knowing that you will take that risk on your shoulders.

Cheers

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I remember that several delegators got hit before just because they delegated SP to curation projects that fought abuse.

I was thinking about doing such a thing with ecosynthesizer. To use the SP of users to fight abuse, along with providing a passive income to our delegators, and curation.

It is a risk that I may take since the current situation is truly alarming. We hope to receive more support for our project [Steem Sentinel], but in the meantime, we must do what we can with what we have right now.

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Sorry for such a late reply. I only had a chance to read your comment a moment ago

Thx for your comment. I love to see how responsive you are :))

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An independent entity is only independent until it isn't anymore. This has already been done. It was kind of effective. But I don't think it is the answer.

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The idea of [isn't anymore] should only be based on a community consensus. To mitigate potential abuse by such entity, more measures can be implemented as mentioned here:

https://steemit.com/steem/@symbionts/q93b9z

I am gathering more information on this subject from the community, and it would be great if you could share your thoughts on what you think could be the solution.

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"intuitive " ?

ps. thx for sharing link to this post. Indeed interesting concept.

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You are probably right. People are probably afraid that he will downvote them.

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Exactly.

I wouldn't want to start a fight with haejin if you don't have solid SP which would back you up. Simple as that. I've seen him clashing with others and he has some solid resources backing him up.

I manage @project.hope with it's 200k SP, however I would still be worried to downvote this user.

He is without any doubt one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) abuser of the platform.

You nailed it. I wonder if anyone would ever stand against him since old witnesses are gone. They surely didn't like this user.

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In this case a user elected committee, backed by STEEM power from Steemit, Inc. might be a possible solution.

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What's wrong with that? It's their steem to do as they want no?

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Hi @d0zer

It's quite simple. You don't want to start a fight with haejin if you don't have solid SP which would back you up. Simple as that. I've seen him clashing with others and he has some solid resources backing him up.

Crystalliu just keeps abusing Steem. Lol

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Good point! Such cases won't be detected by this tool. I will think about a solution. We will need an overview that shows all accounts ordered by posting frequency descending.

Thank You, very Much for the showcase for the Knitrias Project in SteemWorld, I'm much honored and grateful, @SteemChiller. It's a great encouragement for the work!!! <3 :)

Your tools will really mean a lot of help in all the processes of the project, from the selection of the candidates to weekly statistics and evaluation!! Your contributions for Steem are the best keys to any succesful enterprise.

My sincere admiration and good wishes for all your endeavors!!

Best regards from @LeVeuf and the Knitrias Project!!

Hi @steemchiller

Excellent tool.

I was wondering if STINC have some idea on how to fight with regular reward pool abusers. Like haejin.

I think it would be wise to build some blacklist and ensure that users who would end up on this blacklist wouldn't be able to upvote (their upvote wouldn't provide any rewards and it's value would be zero).

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The problem I see with a blacklist is that it comes with much maintenance work. Of course, we would have the same question as with my 'community account for downvoting' idea to ask ourselves: Who should be maintaining the list?

Downvotes can help immediately, but they don't care about future posts. If someone would end up on such a blacklist, he would have nearly no chance of improving his voting style in future anymore. I also think that in case of implementing your idea it should not only set the blacklisted account's vote to zero but all votes it receives.

A similar and much easier to implement idea would be some kind of maximum payout amount per week for all accounts.

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Sorry for such a late reply @steemchiller

The problem I see with a blacklist is that it comes with much maintenance work

My impression is, that it's easier to maintain blacklist than to seek and downvote abusers on daily basis.

I've few good friends, who are right now "milking steem" like crazy. And when I asked them if they aren't worried to be downvoted - I received interesting answer: flaggers will get bored sooner or later.

That's the problem. Those who abuse system, they go "quiet" for several days after been downvoted and then they are coming back. Perhaps unnoticed. Or they simply carry on, knowing that they will win at the end of the day.
@ haejin is great example.

The other problem is that you need 10times more downvoting power (1 free downvote daily) to balance voting power. Meaning: if someone has 100k SP and is self-upvoting 10 of his spam-posts, then you need 10 people with 100k SP to downvote it to zero. That's a battle which cannot be won.

A similar and much easier to implement idea would be some kind of maximum payout amount per week for all accounts.

Interesting idea. Worth considering.

Yours, Piotr

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I've few good friends, who are right now "milking steem" like crazy. And when I asked them if they aren't worried to be downvoted - I received interesting answer: flaggers will get bored sooner or later.

Thanks for the info.

The other problem is that you need 10times more downvoting power (1 free downvote daily) to balance voting power.

Our Max Downvote Mana is 25% of the Max Upvote Mana, means we have 2.5 free downvotes per day.

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Hi @steemchiller

Is there any way to DM you? Can I find you on discord?

Perhaps you could join project.hope server and DM me there: https://discord.gg/BMeDtv

Yours, Piotr

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Currently the best way is to just send me an encrypted memo on Steem. I will soon provide a decentralized chat solution with end-to-end encryption, but until it's ready to be used you can directly message me here ;)

Great tool, would love to have it on hive too.

Haejin? Imagine my shock.

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Surprise, surprise... ^^

This tools are really making a great difference about how to get a look into an user real face. Definitely most of the recent projects will find very useful to learn more about the new developments on the SteemWorld!!
Congratulations and growing admiration for your work and great contributions for Steem!!

The best vibes, @SteemChiller!!

@steemcleaners amongst the potential abusers? I thought that they are good guys by cleaning Steem from spam, scam and other malicious content.

By the way, I call !trdo to support you for your work.

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Not anymore, more like Steem Farmers now.

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@steemchiller will receive 0.10130063 TRDO & @xplosive will get 0.06753375 TRDO curation in 3 Days from Post Created Date!

"Call TRDO, Your Comment Worth Something!"

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Great! The tool misses @timetickertickin though :). In times of crisis, people tend to show their true color. Nice one Dan, hero... (notso)
Big thumbs up to the Asian teams who are putting themselves on the front line! Much love from EU!
But, more resources are needed, maybe @steemitblog can help with delegation or opening a cleanup account? I am happy to help.

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He was on the list, but he received many big downvotes and is now below 200 pending STU for the week ;)

As a new user, I also hope it would be the best policy or method to make the path of steemit community fair smooth & steady.it will be the place just for recreation of the mind -I feel. thanks
steem rose.png

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Thanks for the response.

Hi Steemchiller what is happening with the block chain brother ? 🙃

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you may find this interesting, View time 25:52
I was watching it on youtube and it was taken down at about 10 mins.
I would love to know what you make of the likely hood of validity.
And how would one go about validating or or discrediting.
https://plandemicmovie.com/

Its very useful toll that find out the real abuser, great update.

Good work,

We have already launched an initiative that can be found here.

It would be great if anyone involved in fighting abuse could join the discord here to coordinate, unify our efforts, and exchange information.

We have also developed a bot that will make the job a lot easier and catch late voters, but a lot of SP is needed.

Overall, it's a good start. Keep it up.

This is a great improvement, This will again boost up Steemit and STEEM value.

Thank you for doing this! This is fantastic!

This is awesome, im not really sure what this does.. im new to Steem still figuring out all of it..

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What it does is to attempt to give others a chance to earn a bit more money from the reward pool by lowering the insane rewards the abusers are taking out of the reward pool. If there is $100 in the reward pool and 10 people take out $80, that leaves just $20 for the thousands of others to share. How much do you think each of the thousands of people will get? Now if that $80 is returned to the reward pool, everyone else will get a little bit bigger share!

Great, good to weed out the abusers! Resteemed! Thank you! 😇

This is really awesome,Just voted for @steemchiller :)

I'll be interested to see if people take on haejin. His DV manna is really low right now. Crystalliu is a less abuser financially, but his spam makes Steem look bad. His rewards ought to be removed. It's a matter of whether the remaining community wants to deal with abuse or cash in on curation from it. The Steemflagrewards team have mostly left.

Haejin is the best advertisement for Hive, the kind of PR that not even a large stack of money could buy. For years this guy/girl/guy-girl hybrid has been stealing from the reward pool with his provably terrible charts and advice. Nobody here has the balls to downvote him, they all left for Hive.

Steem is an absolute embarrassment right now. Look at the trending page, it's atrocious.

Let's fucking go. Parasite busters!

WoW! I never knew about this!
I just upvoted.
Thanks @steemchiller.

Haejin lol

Sorry to abuse your post for my question. I don't know a better way to reach you.
I have two friends who have only posting keys for their accounts. They only print out public keys. It was my mistake and I feel bad.
Is there any way to recover their accounts or change the keys?
I checked steemworld and it's quite complicated even for me.
Thanks in advance for your answer.

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There is no way to recover an account without knowing a Private Owner Key that was active in the last 30 days. If they would know the Master Password, they could use the Key Generator on SteemWorld to see the derived Private Keys.

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Thank you very much for your answer. They'll need new accounts.
The good thing is that 1500 steem and hive is taken out of supply for ever.

What an interesting idea for a tool. I am surprised by a couple of potential abusers on that list. !trdo

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Congratulations @mickowen, you successfuly trended the post shared by @steemchiller!
@steemchiller will receive 6.49393200 TRDO & @mickowen will get 4.32928800 TRDO curation in 3 Days from Post Created Date!

"Call TRDO, Your Comment Worth Something!"

To view or trade TRDO go to steem-engine.com
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Congratulations @steemchiller, your post successfully recieved 6.59523263 TRDO from below listed TRENDO callers:

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hi - is there steemworld.org for hive ?